Texas Secession from the United States

[Livius Clades]

It won't happen primarily because the state of Texas is too important to the US. If say South Carolina left they might not care because it's not an important state. But then again the US would try to prevent any state from leaving the Union. Federations don't tend to let territories or states just leave. 

[WISD0MTREE]

You are pulling data from different places at different times, which doesn't make much sense.

 

Texas has a GDP per capita that is a few thousand higher than the U.S. as a whole, so basically all you are saying is Texas has a lot of people. Good job.

 

If it were an independent country, it would be a poor, racist, nationalist police state - and in short order it would have many fewer people. 

The top source was from 2015 and the second was from 2011 to 2015. I have no idea what you are talking about. 

 

Read: per capita

 

Poor? See pretty much the entire post that you quoted. 

Racist? Post stats of racial discrimination. I could easily say that NJ is still racist since they abolished slavery last. Hell, I could say Australia or Britain are more racists from the source you posted. 

Nationalist? Sure. 

Police state? Last I checked, police states like the DPRK don't allow citizens to openly carry weapons. 

Fewer people? We would most likely abolish some of the more restrictive US federal laws, resulting in more businesses relocating there and more people needed to fill those spots. Just an observation from our politics. 

 

That's what I thought may happen to. All the more reason why if Texas does secede, the United States should use their full military to restore order.

And fight against an insurgency like Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan? I can't wait to see that. 

[Thalmor]

And fight against an insurgency like Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan? I can't wait to see that. 

 

I don't think Texan independence is important enough to many Texans that they'll fight an insurgency over it.

 

Regardless, considering that Texas is rightful American soil, I think the lives lost in such a counter-insurgency would be worth it.

[Areton Chashul]

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

Edited May 16, 2016 by Areton Chashul

[Lannan13]

They have the power to secede from the US, but I don't see this to be a feasible course of action nor do I see it being realistic. 

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

I wouldn't see very many recognize it, but I think it would depend on US reaction to this. 

[Aesir]

That's what I thought may happen to. All the more reason why if Texas does secede, the United States should use their full military to restore order.

 

Here's the problem, with a Texas secession the South will probably join it fairly quickly and then things get really awkward.  Major companies have moved to the Southern States over the years and the South has grown in industrial power.  And then we have to consider this, if Texas secedes and the Military does do something, this will cause an even larger uproar.  What better evidence of a tyrannical government is there than one that claims to support democracy but cracks down on its own people asserting their will.  This will probably drive more people to support secession as they would feel they clearly can't trust the federal government.  Honestly we don't know what will happen but while if another civil war broke out the federal government would win, the US economy would be completely devastated.  The other question is will the President act?  The only one who would if Texas seceded, in my opinion, is Trump.  Sanders and Hillary would probably not do a thing about it.

[Donald Trump]

supposing yond texas and the rest of am'rica mutually did agree f'r texas to maketh an 'rd'rly transition to its owneth nationhood, avoiding sudden disruptions, legal dispute, 'r military conc'rns, the logistics art mind boggling. some of the issues to contend with:

 

which nation wouldst each resident beest a citizen of? what about people from 'r in texas sh'rt t'rm f'r school, w'rk, feather-bed? wouldst th're beest dual citizenship, and how wouldst yond w'rk? how wouldst texas handleth visas and traveleth across the b'rd'r? what about prop'rty division in cross-b'rd'r marriages and div'rces, 'r families did split across the b'rd'r. coequal simple stuffeth liketh a driv'r's licenseth and auto insurance wouldst anon visage cross-b'rd'r issues. 

 

 what kind of b'rd'r wouldst th're beest? wouldst th're has't to beest inspections and controleth points? things might beest gentle anon, but as texas and the us hath passed separateth laws and hath built up separateth laws, taxes, law enf'rcement, and intelligence, smuggling wouldst befall. 

 

 wouldst texas has't its owneth military? f'reign policy? treaties? tradeth policies? tariffs? currency? seat in the un? wouldst t at each moment side with the us and beest und'r the protection of the us on int'rnational matt'rs, 'r wouldst t beginneth to wend its owneth way? wouldst the w'rld community wouldst welcometh anoth'r m're cons'rvative v'rsion of the us with a second vote. 

 

 running national functions wouldst require a lot of legal, financial, and gov'rnmental infrastructure-building in texas, which carries a did cost. those gents'd needeth to ov'rhaul a bunch of laws 'r adopteth us laws and legal precedent wholesale, adjust their condition, decideth wheth'r those gents wanteth to replicate 'r adapteth

their three branches of gov'rnment. 

 

how wouldst texas buildeth, 'r coop'rate with the us, on what hadst previously been national eff'rts f'r things liketh law enf'rcement, public health, transp'rtation infrastructure, and oth'r national gov'rnment functions?

all of this wouldst beest incredibly disruptive and expensive. coequal done right, we're talking trillions of dollars of w'rk to doth, and yond wouldst risketh creating a lot of debt. t wouldst eke guaranteeth a lot of employment f'r us lawy'rs, and belike politicians, and accountants, security guards, p'rhaps coequal engine'rs, plann'rs, designeth'rs, contracteth'rs, architects, retail'rs, banks. 

 

disruption oft spurs innovation. the economies of the us and texas art robust and adaptable, and the people art clev'r, so we couldst belike receiveth past all yond. t wouldn't beest the endeth of the w'rld. oth'r nations has't did split up 'r consid'r'd t recently, and we couldst behold to their examples. one most wondrous thing about am'rica's did feed'ral/state gov'rnment system is yond we has't fifty testeth lab'rat'ries (plus the dc, and tribal nations) to testeth out diff'rent policies and the'ries of gov'rnment. tex-us wouldst beest one of the biggest exp'riments ev'r. 

 

i bethink not this hast the remotest chance of actually happening in the current political climate. th're has't been regular secession movements throughout the entire hist'ry of the us, mostly one parteth of a state wanting to f'rm its owneth state 'r joineth a neighb'ring one, but occasionally advocating f'r withdrawing from the us. oth'r than the civil war, which obviously didst not wend well f'r eith'r side, none has't gone v'ry far. 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Muhammad

[WISD0MTREE]

I don't think Texan independence is important enough to many Texans that they'll fight an insurgency over it.

 

Regardless, considering that Texas is rightful American soil, I think the lives lost in such a counter-insurgency would be worth it.

I don't think you have ever been to Texas. Plus, I'm sure Russia and China would support a Texas succession just to !@#$ with America. They are already opposing any American war with Best Korea. 

 

I find it funny how that works. Americans are proud of breaking away from Britain, but oppose anyone breaking away from them. 

 

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

Probably not many. I'm sure Texas could pay off Madagascar to recognise it. 

[Tali]

Tbh, if Texas does secede from the U.S, give me a warning so I can move away.

[Andrezj Kolarov]

Racist? Post stats of racial discrimination. I could easily say that NJ is still racist since they abolished slavery last. Hell, I could say Australia or Britain are more racists from the source you posted. 

Today sure, but Texas does have a history of racism, heck they only seceded from Mexico after Mexico abolished slavery.

[Conspiracy Theorist]

First of all, The US exists NOT as vassals of a centralized federal government, but rather that centralized federal government exists as a vassal of the states. It was the constitutional right of any state to leave the union if they so desired up until the time of Abe Lincoln, when the US was still a republic... Abe put an end to that when ge forcefully invaded states that chose to no longer be a part of the "union" and confiscated their land. At the same time through numerous small actions by the federal government we were changed from a constitutional republic, to a democracy.

 

There are historians who have argued that what Lincoln did at that time was unconstitutional and that he had in effect, at least temporarily, made himself a tyrant giving himself unconstitutional powers. It was because of the changes imposed on the nation that the US changed from a nation of "rule of law" to a nation of "majority rule" (change from a republic to a democracy)

[Masterbake]

Set them free or make them leave just as long as the end result is that they are gone.  I'd feel sorry for the Galveston and Houston which really don't like the rest of Texas but sacrifices must be made for the good of the many.

 

edit-  On the citizenship question I would guess that they would have to choose in a certain time frame which nation they want to be officially tied to as I doubt the US would be of a mind to grant dual citizenship.  During that time official maritime boundaries would have to be fixed as the Texas of old official boundary was only 3 miles out.  I am sure they would want the US to be flexible in carving up the Gulf of Mexico as they have no legal claim to it.  Also I am sure the US would pull out of all it's bases and the Johnson Space Center.

 

edit edit-  Most southern states probably would not leave as they are receiving more in Federal dollars than they pay in.  In essence they are on welfare.

 

Mississippi get $4.70 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

South Carolina gets $3.05 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Alabama gets $3.02 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Virginia gets $2.22 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Kentucky gets $2.05 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Florida gets $1.60 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Georgia gets $1.39 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Missouri gets $1.36 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Louisiana gets $1.28 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Arkansas gets $1.10 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

Texas gets $1.09 for every dollar spend in federal taxes

 

source- The Pew Charitable Trusts

Edited May 17, 2016 by Masterbake

[SoS]

 

supposing yond texas and the rest of am'rica mutually did agree f'r texas to maketh an 'rd'rly transition to its owneth nationhood, avoiding sudden disruptions, legal dispute, 'r military conc'rns, the logistics art mind boggling. some of the issues to contend with:

 

which nation wouldst each resident beest a citizen of? what about people from 'r in texas sh'rt t'rm f'r school, w'rk, feather-bed? wouldst th're beest dual citizenship, and how wouldst yond w'rk? how wouldst texas handleth visas and traveleth across the b'rd'r? what about prop'rty division in cross-b'rd'r marriages and div'rces, 'r families did split across the b'rd'r. coequal simple stuffeth liketh a driv'r's licenseth and auto insurance wouldst anon visage cross-b'rd'r issues.

 

what kind of b'rd'r wouldst th're beest? wouldst th're has't to beest inspections and controleth points? things might beest gentle anon, but as texas and the us hath passed separateth laws and hath built up separateth laws, taxes, law enf'rcement, and intelligence, smuggling wouldst befall.

 

wouldst texas has't its owneth military? f'reign policy? treaties? tradeth policies? tariffs? currency? seat in the un? wouldst t at each moment side with the us and beest und'r the protection of the us on int'rnational matt'rs, 'r wouldst t beginneth to wend its owneth way? wouldst the w'rld community wouldst welcometh anoth'r m're cons'rvative v'rsion of the us with a second vote.

 

running national functions wouldst require a lot of legal, financial, and gov'rnmental infrastructure-building in texas, which carries a did cost. those gents'd needeth to ov'rhaul a bunch of laws 'r adopteth us laws and legal precedent wholesale, adjust their condition, decideth wheth'r those gents wanteth to replicate 'r adapteth

their three branches of gov'rnment.

how wouldst texas buildeth, 'r coop'rate with the us, on what hadst previously been national eff'rts f'r things liketh law enf'rcement, public health, transp'rtation infrastructure, and oth'r national gov'rnment functions?

all of this wouldst beest incredibly disruptive and expensive. coequal done right, we're talking trillions of dollars of w'rk to doth, and yond wouldst risketh creating a lot of debt. t wouldst eke guaranteeth a lot of employment f'r us lawy'rs, and belike politicians, and accountants, security guards, p'rhaps coequal engine'rs, plann'rs, designeth'rs, contracteth'rs, architects, retail'rs, banks.

 

disruption oft spurs innovation. the economies of the us and texas art robust and adaptable, and the people art clev'r, so we couldst belike receiveth past all yond. t wouldn't beest the endeth of the w'rld. oth'r nations has't did split up 'r consid'r'd t recently, and we couldst behold to their examples. one most wondrous thing about am'rica's did feed'ral/state gov'rnment system is yond we has't fifty testeth lab'rat'ries (plus the dc, and tribal nations) to testeth out diff'rent policies and the'ries of gov'rnment. tex-us wouldst beest one of the biggest exp'riments ev'r.

 

i bethink not this hast the remotest chance of actually happening in the current political climate. th're has't been regular secession movements throughout the entire hist'ry of the us, mostly one parteth of a state wanting to f'rm its owneth state 'r joineth a neighb'ring one, but occasionally advocating f'r withdrawing from the us. oth'r than the civil war, which obviously didst not wend well f'r eith'r side, none has't gone v'ry far.

This shit needs to stop.

[Redael]

Captain Texas Civil War, Im gonna grab some popcorn  

[Masterbake]

GDP per capita =/= amount of people.

Maryland has a sky high GDP per capita, while a state like California is lower. 

 

I like how you throw around nationalist as a buzzword though, like it's a bad thing. 

2014 California per capita GDP, 61,924

2014 Maryland per capita GDP, 60,097

 

also for the sake of argument

2014 Texas per capita GDP, 54,055

 

all three went up in 2015 and all are in the same ballpark

[Dimitri Valko]

This shit needs to stop.

 

[WISD0MTREE]

Today sure, but Texas does have a history of racism, heck they only seceded from Mexico after Mexico abolished slavery.

By that logic, we should bomb the shit out of Brazil. (http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/12/244563532/photos-reveal-harsh-detail-of-brazils-history-with-slavery)

And England. (Allowed slavery in the colonies.) 

And New Jersey. (Last state to abolish slavery)

And most of Europe dating back to before Rome. 

And mesopotamia. 

And ISIS. 

And... Probably almost everybody else. 

 

 

Captain Texas Civil War, Im gonna grab some popcorn

I'd pay to see this movie. 

[Redael]

By MURICA logic, we should bomb the shit out of everybody else. 

[James Hequ]

By MURICA logic, we should bomb the shit out of everybody else. 

why should we stop at everybody else, lets nuke the US.

[Callum]

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

Honestly i think it'd be a China/Taiwan thing.  Where its either you Recognize the US, or you recognize Texas. The economic suicide you'd face going for Texas over the states would be real. 

[Masterbake]

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

 

If Texas did secede it would have to be with the permission of the United States.  If that happened everyone would recognize them.  I make fun of Texas but I can actually see advantages to succession.  

[WISD0MTREE]

Honestly i think it'd be a China/Taiwan thing.  Where its either you Recognize the US, or you recognize Texas. The economic suicide you'd face going for Texas over the states would be real. 

What about OPEC? They mostly hate the US for supporting Israel, but having Texas onboard would increase their production and make their cartel more effective. 

[Rozalia]

If Texas does secede, which countries would legitimately recognize it?

 

North Korea

Iran

Syria

Russia

China

Israel or Saudi Arabia + other middle eastern states if Israel doesn't recognise Texas 

+ Some minor African states

[Masterbake]

What about OPEC? They mostly hate the US for supporting Israel, but having Texas onboard would increase their production and make their cartel more effective. 

 

If they can't control Mexico, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Venezuela and Russia I doubt you would have a chance of persuading Texans who lean far right on the political spectrum to join OPEC.  

[Redael]

why should we stop at everybody else, lets nuke the US.

Great idea