A call for Minarchism

[Kastor]

He was suspended for 30 days previously, but that suspension has since ended, and during that time all of his warning points expired.

Like I said, so saying that no one has been banned by the warning system isn't something you can say, as its impossible to be banned because your warning points will expire before you return.

[Hereno]

giving us a billion warning points that expire quickly was, really, a reaction to the fact that we had so many dumb rules and heavy-handed moderation enforcing them

 

basically you made warnings not really matter so you wouldn't have to get decent mods

 

like sorry, i get that you're young, but having a bunch of 17 year olds being very present as mods on the forums is not a good way to mod anything, ever

 

ogaden's point is basically that if you didn't have so many dumb minor rules we wouldn't have so many mods making bad calls about them in the first place. if you keep shit simple it's a lot harder to !@#$ it up. and if you just let shit go sometimes you'll find that a lot of problems resolve themselves

 

when they don't, THAT'S when you intervene. it really is okay for someone to get told they're stupid and just brush it off. people do get angry and this community is full of children.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Hierophant

[Hereno]

this community has always had bad mods. grendel was absolutely terrible. so was that one von koenig nazi guy who was your IRL friend. you just don't surround yourself with good people. i mean for !@#$'s sake you made FOX FIRE a mod. /and he quit because he thought the rest of them were stupid as !@#$./ it's like you purposefully pick stupid people who want power to be mods.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Hierophant

[Alex]

Like I said, so saying that no one has been banned by the warning system isn't something you can say, as its impossible to be banned because your warning points will expire before you return.

 

That's not true either; the warning system has been amended since then so that suspensions are shorter (and thus it would be possible to be get banned permanently.)

 

giving us a billion warning points that expire quickly was, really, a reaction to the fact that we had so many dumb rules and heavy-handed moderation enforcing them

 

basically you made warnings not really matter so you wouldn't have to get decent mods

 

like sorry, i get that you're young, but having a bunch of 17 year olds being very present as mods on the forums is not a good way to mod anything, ever

 

ogaden's point is basically that if you didn't have so many dumb minor rules we wouldn't have so many mods making bad calls about them in the first place. if you keep shit simple it's a lot harder to !@#$ it up. and if you just let shit go sometimes you'll find that a lot of problems resolve themselves

 

when they don't, THAT'S when you intervene. it really is okay for someone to get told they're stupid and just brush it off. people do get angry and this community is full of children.

this community has always had bad mods. grendel was absolutely terrible. so was that one von koenig nazi guy who was your IRL friend. you just don't surround yourself with good people. i mean for !@#$'s sake you made FOX FIRE a mod. /and he quit because he thought the rest of them were stupid as !@#$./ it's like you purposefully pick stupid people who want power to be mods.

 

To address both of your points:

 

First, warning points are not intended to be a punishment. Sure, you can call the suspensions a punishment, but they're only to put some weight behind the rules, and encourage rule-breaking players to acknowledge that they broke the rules, and discourage them from doing it again. We're not trying to drive people out of the community, we don't arbitrarily ban people we don't like (for example, if I wanted to, I could ban your account and remove all your posts. You're saying some not so nice things about me, after all. But will I do that? No. And have I done that? No.)

 

You're welcome to criticize me, and your latter point about choosing poor moderators was accurate -- a year and a half ago. Things have changed a lot since then, and you've just come back from a long hiatus. If you're marching back here expecting everything to be the same as it was, and expect nothing to have improved, then that's your problem. Go ahead and actually take a look around, you'll see that things are a lot better, we have a much better pool of players to choose moderators from, with enough experience on these forums to see who's a decent level-headed person, and who's not. I've also grown considerably, and learned lots from administrating this forum, and am not prone to making the same mistakes I did early on.

 

Your criticisms are misplaced, here. You need to spend some more time around the community to get re-adjusted to what it's like now before you can legitimately make claims like this.

[Hereno]

except when i first came back i believed you, and wished you and the mods well, or did you already forget?

 

but just recently we had a situation where you thought a post i made was funny while one of your mods got pissy and told me to stop spamming. and i haven't really done anything since i've gotten back except make suggestions and try to lay low

 

clearly i'm not the only one who thinks the mods here are still not that great, and making improvements does not mean you don't still have a long way to go

 

back in the day you arbitrarily gave me warn points because i pissed you off, and you used to post in endorsement of certain alliances in the game before i blasted you for it. yeah, you're a lot better now, but you're still taking shit personally and having threads like this pop up multiple times since i've been "recently" back

 

you can hate me for being real with you all you want, but some people appreciate those who are not two-faced sycophants. maybe in time, you will come to value constructive criticism. until then, you'll keep making posts exalting yourself for not having banned me for disagreeing with you. i've yet to see, for example, you address the fact that it's almost impossible to be banned from the game right now, according to what people are saying. but i guess that doesn't matter because the warning points actually serve no purpose in your eyes.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Hierophant

[Saruman]

except when i first came back i believed you, and wished you and the mods well, or did you already forget?

 

but just recently we had a situation where you thought a post i made was funny while one of your mods got pissy and told me to stop spamming. and i haven't really done anything since i've gotten back except make suggestions and try to lay low

 

clearly i'm not the only one who thinks the mods here are still not that great, and making improvements does not mean you don't still have a long way to go

 

back in the day you arbitrarily gave me warn points because i pissed you off, and you used to post in endorsement of certain alliances in the game before i blasted you for it. yeah, you're a lot better now, but you're still taking shit personally and having threads like this pop up multiple times since i've been "recently" back

 

you can hate me for being real with you all you want, but some people appreciate those who are not two-faced sycophants. maybe in time, you will come to value constructive criticism. until then, you'll keep making posts exalting yourself for not having banned me for disagreeing with you. i've yet to see, for example, you address the fact that it's almost impossible to be banned from the game right now, according to what people are saying. but i guess that doesn't matter because the warning points actually serve no purpose in your eyes.

Be like me; follow the rules. I think you'll find the moderators are doing just fine. They get a lot of hate but they don't get credit for anything they do. I mean, they're humans, they'll make the occasional mistake. That doesn't mean you need to rebel and complain about it constantly. Just sayin

Edited January 31, 2016 by Saruman

[Crust]

• What's the point of declaring certain sections of the forum to be "no discussion"? Is the discussion that might occur over a game report so distracting from the OP that the mods / admins can't see the OP? 

 

My biggest issue with that is why the game reports are done mainly via the forum at all. There should be an ingame page or an outsourced page where you get to report nations, users or alliances without half of Orbis knowing about it. Almost no one respects the no discussion rule, it sways the judgement of the mods and admins, it makes it more intimidating to report someone and it's kinda weird to have anonymous mods but non-anonymous reports. You could argue that pm'ing sheepy to report something is an alternative but 1.A new player wont know that. 2. There should generally only be on system involved in this, anything else makes no sense and would result in different rulings depending on where you report.

 

If there should be less or more rules is something I generally don't care about, but however it is kinda weird that there's no rule against trolling. Saying that it's an arbitrary rule is a moot point considering most of the rules are arbitrary or worthless. The IC/OOC rule is arbitrary. Most of the rules that concern what is and isn't allowed when rping is arbitrary etc etc. This forum has some big issues concerning trolls and it's polluting this place. 

 

Another issue is the fact that the trust in mods are low. People wouldn't be complaining if it wasn't so. That's something that needs to be fixed, otherwise you'll either have more people breaking the rules or leaving this game to play something a bit more worthwhile.

[Hereno]

Be like me; follow the rules. I think you'll find the moderators are doing just fine. They get a lot of hate but they don't get credit for anything they do. I mean, they're humans, they'll make the occasional mistake. That doesn't mean you need to rebel and complain about it constantly. Just sayin

this is a good example of one of the sycophants i was talking about.

 

1. ignores everything i said in my post to say that i "rebel and complain constantly"

2. tells me to "follow the rules" despite not having broken any and ignoring the inconsistencies not only between the behavior of moderators, but also with the behaviors they expect and enforce

3. makes baseless, strange assertions like "you'll find they're doing just fine" and "they don't get any credit for what they do", despite giving them credit in this very post and my having a history of having legitimate problems with the moderation team that sheepy himself admits were at least partially legitimate complaints by his having told me that he has learned a lot and is progressing (which i agree with)

 

how is your post useful in any way, shape, or form, other than to kiss ass? i'm being completely serious. oh, i figured it out. it gives you a chance to go "oh, look at me, i follow the rules!" like a child looking for approval from their parents.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Hierophant

[Ayayay]

how is your post useful in any way, shape, or form, other than to kiss ass? i'm being completely serious. oh, i figured it out. it gives you a chance to go "oh, look at me, i follow the rules!" like a child looking for approval from their parents.

I !@#$ing hate agreeing with Hereno

[Mike Haggar]

 

you can hate me for being real with you all you want, but some people appreciate those who are not two-faced sycophants. maybe in time, you will come to value constructive criticism. until then, you'll keep making posts exalting yourself for not having banned me for disagreeing with you. i've yet to see, for example, you address the fact that it's almost impossible to be banned from the game right now, according to what people are saying. but i guess that doesn't matter because the warning points actually serve no purpose in your eyes.

The best criticism is 1. actionable and 2. specific. If you really want the community to improve, get off the ego-driven martyr train and help them learn.

 

How do you do this? Post the objectionable warn (with specific text from the warn) to the Mod support subforum for discussion. This gives the other mods and the community a single case to rule on and gives the mod team the justification to act, if needed. Random and vague accusations help no one. These forums MUST have mods, but mods can learn just like everyone else.

 

To their credit, Sheepy and the other mods appear to act based on threads in the Mod Discussion forum. To his credit, Kastor exhibited the best example of how you should deal with any problem mod behavior. Even Captain Vietnam, of all posters, has shown that he understands how to use the Moderation Support subforum.

 

Take off the Hot Topic shirt and put away the emo poetry. No one here wants to oppress you. If they violate your boundaries, then you need to tell them how and let the community decide if those boundaries are justified.

 

Example: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10774-letter-to-the-moderation-team/

[Hereno]

>be sheepy

>ignores my criticism

>likes a post of someone telling me to "take off the hot topic shirt"

 

lmao, this game

[Mike Haggar]

>be sheepy

>ignores my criticism

>likes a post of someone telling me to "take off the hot topic shirt"

 

lmao, this game

>Be Heirophant

>Refuse to revise criticism to something that Sheepy can actually use.

>Pick most irrelevant comment in a post to focus on.

 

 

If you can't post some actual evidence for comment, maybe you could climb off of your cross and get back to having fun. Everyone wants to revolutionize the proletariat. Nobody wants to just play the damn game.

 

Sheepy has commented multiple times in this thread. Some address comments like yours. If your complaints are unique, please give us an example of its uniqueness.

 

Sheepy and the mod team are limited in their responses because they want to welcome as many people to the community as possible, including people that need the rules enforced for optimum forum use. I have no such limitation because my nation link is to the left.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Mike Haggar

[Hereno]

i wonder if the mods are going to say anything about your blatant flaming on their behalf

 

(spoiler: i don't wonder because i already know)

 

e: well, actually, then again, the warning point system means literally nothing as per sheepy's own admission, and it would let them save face to give you a point or slap you on the wrists just to prove me wrong

Edited February 2, 2016 by Hierophant

[Mike Haggar]

i wonder if the mods are going to say anything about your blatant flaming on their behalf

 

(spoiler: i don't wonder because i already know)

 

e: well, actually, then again, the warning point system means literally nothing as per sheepy's own admission, and it would let them save face to give you a point or slap you on the wrists just to prove me wrong

Believe it or not, there's a subforum for that: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/forum/37-forum-reports/

 

I accept whatever guidance the mods choose to give me. My ego will not shatter because they want me to tone it down, and I will carry the lesson forward into other posts. The most amusing part is that you've worded this post so that you can remain a victim no matter how the mods act. Bravo for the sympathy gymnastics! The Russian judge will only give you a 7, though.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Mike Haggar

[Buorhann]

I'm curious if the discussion for the warning point removal occurred yet, or was just swept under the rug.

[Thor (Former Moderator)]

I'm curious if the discussion for the warning point removal occurred yet, or was just swept under the rug.

Sorry, I forgot to post here. We did discuss it and it was rejected by Sheepy. If you would like to discuss that decision please PM him.

[Buorhann]

That's actually really interesting.

 

>admits the rule call was ambiguous in PMs

>decides to keep warning point

>"Its just 1 warning point"

>forgets the principle of the matter

 

 

Cool.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Buorhann

[Alex]

That's actually really interesting.

 

>admits the rule call was ambiguous in PMs

>decides to keep warning point

>"Its just 1 warning point"

>forgets the principle of the matter

 

 

Cool.

 

I have no wish to set a precedent where the louder you cry out about being warned, the more likely you are to have a warning point removed. Sometimes life isn't fair - the mods made an iffy call, and in this instance I'm standing by them here. That's all there is to it.