Religion

[Franz Von Dietrich]

I apologise, the initial post you responded to was again directed at Luckynako who claimed that it did not happen.

 

If you're position on the matter differs to his then I have no argument with you.

 

 

Allah (swt) can split the moon and simultaneously prevent global catastrophe as a result.

 

The crux of this argument is really whether or not you believe in Allah (swt)/God so let's stop dancing around the issue and address it directly.

You have yet to show me proof. Provide it, or your claim is false.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

NASA has come to disapprove Koran's claims about splitting of the moon. In 2010 a NASA Lunar Science Institute (NLSI) staff scientist said "No current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was split into two (or more) parts and then reassembled at any point in the past."

 

Is their any current scientific evidence to suggest the Moon wasn't spilt and reassembled?

Your question has been answered. Scientists look for evidence, where is your peer reviewed evidence that in 5 years the scientists have been proved wrong?

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Your question has been answered. Scientists look for evidence, where is your peer reviewed evidence that in 5 years the scientists have been proved wrong?

 

Nowhere in that sentence that was quoted does it say: "Current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was NOT split into two and reassembled." It simply says that they have no current scientific evidence reporting that it did, which is not surprising, given the fact that miracle was only meant for a specific time and people. It was not something that was meant for all of humanity until the day of Judgement, as that miracle is the Quran.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Geronimo]

Allah (swt) can split the moon and simultaneously prevent global catastrophe as a result.

 

The crux of this argument is really whether or not you believe in Allah (swt)/God so let's stop dancing around the issue and address it directly.

 

So, now you're saying that everything is possible in the name of Allah, eh? Everything can magically happen, right? 

Wooops, I think someone has forgotten what he has said earlier. I'll quote one of your posting just to remind you mate. 

 

I'll take this as an admission that you can not do so.

 

Once again, the Quran does not contradict modern established science.

 

[Spite]

Come on, logically if there is a creator who created the entire universe, I don't think violating the laws of physics is going to be hard. Walking on water, though not as impressive as splitting the moon, is nevertheless just as much a violation of physics/fluid dynamics.

 

Roz I think you're missing the point. Firstly paedophilia specifically relates to attraction to pre-pubescents, which according to the Koran Muhammad's wife wasn't. Secondly, the term paedophile is a politically charged one in western civilisation, but for the most part of human culture and history wasn't a relevant term. People married to have babies, having sex with someone who couldn't have babies is kind of pointless in that regard and no doubt actual paedophiles were as rare then as they are now.

 

Remember in the ancient world women were there for breeding. Most men in the ancient world were quite demeaning towards women. In ancient Greece pedastry was so common because they didn't want to have romantic relationships with the inferior gender. In 7th century terms the caliphate was actually one of the more liberal contemporary cultures when it came to women.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

[Dimitri Valko]

If a voice in your head that said it was "Allah" told you to marry a nine year old, murder polytheists, and convert as many people as you can to pray to it, would you listen to it, Ibrahim? I sure as hell wouldn't.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

 

 

I didn't know that wife sharing was allowed by Muhammad.......or am I taking that out of context......?

 

Nowhere in that sentence that was quoted does it say: "Current scientific evidence reports that the Moon was NOT split into two and reassembled." It simply says that they have no current scientific evidence reporting that it did, which is not surprising, given the fact that miracle was only meant for a specific time and people. It was not something that was meant for all of humanity until the day of Judgement, as that miracle is the Quran.

The problem is that there is no Geological evidence to prove that the moon has ever been more than one piece.....Where are the fracture lines on the moon? Where is the evidence of a cataclysmic event in Muhammad's time? Miracles of that nature would be expected to leave their mark in the geology.

We have but one written account of such events, no archaeological evidence and nothing else that proves your reading of history. Maybe this is why ISIS hate historical monuments so much, because they are evidence that historical tomes are accurate, unlike their literal reading of their holy book.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[Fox Fire]

Allah (swt) can split the moon and reassemble it perfectly.

 

If you have evidence to suggest that this certainly did not happen then kindly present it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Formation

 

Everything in known physics would clearly suggest that this not only did not happen, but is virtually impossible. 

[Kemal Ergenekon]

I wrote a book called Ergenequran. Here are some excepts from it:

 

"Then do they not reflect upon the Ergenequran? If it had been from [any] other than Dio Brando, they would have found within it much contradiction." (Ergenequran 4:82)

 

"The revelation of this Book (Ergenequran) is beyond doubt from the Lord of the Universe. Do say they, "He (Kemal Ergenekon) has invented it himself?" No, it is the truth from your Lord, so that you may warn people to whom no warner has come before you, in order that they may be rightly guided." (Ergenequran32:2-3)

 

"If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down (revealed) to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your witnesses (to assist you), apart from Dio Brando, if you are truthful. But if you cannot - as you certainly never can do it - then guard against the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for the disbelievers." (Ergenequran 2:22-23)

 

Hence, the Ergenequran has no holes, mistakes, or contradictions, and if you have anything to say to the contrary, then present your evidence or meet the challenge ^

 

Read Ergenequran and worship Dio Brando, because Ergenequran says it cannot be false.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

I wrote a book called Ergenequran. Here are some excepts from it:

 

"Then do they not reflect upon the Ergenequran? If it had been from [any] other than Dio Brando, they would have found within it much contradiction." (Ergenequran 4:82)

 

"The revelation of this Book (Ergenequran) is beyond doubt from the Lord of the Universe. Do say they, "He (Kemal Ergenekon) has invented it himself?" No, it is the truth from your Lord, so that you may warn people to whom no warner has come before you, in order that they may be rightly guided." (Ergenequran32:2-3)

 

"If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down (revealed) to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your witnesses (to assist you), apart from Dio Brando, if you are truthful. But if you cannot - as you certainly never can do it - then guard against the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for the disbelievers." (Ergenequran 2:22-23)

 

Hence, the Ergenequran has no holes, mistakes, or contradictions, and if you have anything to say to the contrary, then present your evidence or meet the challenge ^

 

Read Ergenequran and worship Dio Brando, because Ergenequran says it cannot be false.

 

The Quran was revealed in Arabic and the miracle is contained in the Arabic text.

 

 

Any translation (including English) is not sufficient as things are always lost in translation.  

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Also: Changing one or two words is still plagiarism.

[Fox Fire]

Also: Changing one or two words is still plagiarism.

The irony is strong with this one....

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

The irony is strong with this one....

 

How so?

[Fox Fire]

How so?

Your copy/paste in our cosmology debate.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Your copy/paste in our cosmology debate.

 

I put anything I copy & paste in "quotation marks" and I usually cite my source(s).

Edited October 31, 2015 by Ibrahim

[stetonic]

Can't be bothered reading the whole thread but ALIEN'S 

 

End of conversation 

[Fox Fire]

 

I concur. This is clearly the truth behind all mysteries. 

[Rozalia]

Roz I think you're missing the point. Firstly paedophilia specifically relates to attraction to pre-pubescents, which according to the Koran Muhammad's wife wasn't. Secondly, the term paedophile is a politically charged one in western civilisation, but for the most part of human culture and history wasn't a relevant term. People married to have babies, having sex with someone who couldn't have babies is kind of pointless in that regard and no doubt actual paedophiles were as rare then as they are now.

 

Remember in the ancient world women were there for breeding. Most men in the ancient world were quite demeaning towards women. In ancient Greece pedastry was so common because they didn't want to have romantic relationships with the inferior gender. In 7th century terms the caliphate was actually one of the more liberal contemporary cultures when it came to women.

 

I'm challenging him on pedophilia on the modern day, not 1000 years ago. Excusing it in the past is one thing as there are arguments to be made there, excusing it going on today in the modern era and actively thinking it as a good thing like Ibrahim is quite another. Until he can condemn ISIS and all the rest committing pedophilia he supports it, which is of course expected.

[Spite]

I'm challenging him on pedophilia on the modern day, not 1000 years ago. Excusing it in the past is one thing as there are arguments to be made there, excusing it going on today in the modern era and actively thinking it as a good thing like Ibrahim is quite another. Until he can condemn ISIS and all the rest committing pedophilia he supports it, which is of course expected.

What is paedophilia, please define what you mean by this term because I think you are not using it correctly.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

In the British context Paedophilia is used to refer to sexual abuse of children. Pedrasty is a better term in terms of the Greek.

[Rozalia]

What is paedophilia, please define what you mean by this term because I think you are not using it correctly.

 

You arming for a Ephebophilia attack? Sounds like you're trying to make a pointless distinction in the context of this discussion much like the one Ibrahim tried by saying they aren't child brides due to being past puberty. We're talking 12/13 year olds here who Ibrahim thinks it merry to have a 50 year old man (for example) have sex with them, they're past puberty so for Ibrahim thats good enough. 

 

Is it right for a 50 year old man to have sex with a 12/13 year old girl? If not then then we can both condemn Ibrahim's support of such a thing yes?

[Moridin]

I think arguing about societal norms differing over a thousand years misses the point, really. The Quran, and Muhammad's actions as he lived by it, are supposed to be the pinnacle of morality, the guidelines that everyone looks back on as they try to live their own lives. The argument that societal values have changed over time ignores the supposition that morality is absolute, that what Allah says is good must be good. Since Allah decreed (as Ibrahim pointed out) that Aisha was to be married to Muhammad, it is divine will that that happen. Either that is morally wrong, or it is morally right - and since it is Allah's will that it happen, it is clearly morally right. This, in my mind, is a far more troublesome issue. A lot of things can be forgiven when you simply say the people involved lived in different times (I've seen it said for things like the US founders having slaves, for instance), but divine morality is absolute and unchanging, so the values of then must be the values of now, which obviously renders a lot of things 'good' that are by modern standards unpalatable.

[Spite]

You arming for a Ephebophilia attack? Sounds like you're trying to make a pointless distinction in the context of this discussion much like the one Ibrahim tried by saying they aren't child brides due to being past puberty. We're talking 12/13 year olds here who Ibrahim thinks it merry to have a 50 year old man (for example) have sex with them, they're past puberty so for Ibrahim thats good enough.

 

Is it right for a 50 year old man to have sex with a 12/13 year old girl? If not then then we can both condemn Ibrahim's support of such a thing yes?

I'm looking for what you mean by pedophile. If you mean someone who has sex with someone under the age of consent you're using a very subjective definition. If a 14 year old German or Croatian has sex with someone that someone isn't a pedo. America has unusually high age of consent laws. You need to be clear where your definition of pedophile comes from.

[Rozalia]

I'm looking for what you mean by pedophile. If you mean someone who has sex with someone under the age of consent you're using a very subjective definition. If a 14 year old German or Croatian has sex with someone that someone isn't a pedo. America has unusually high age of consent laws. You need to be clear where your definition of pedophile comes from.

 

Age of consent yes, which have changed before and may again. My own thoughts on the matter are irrelevant to the question I put forward to Ibrahim, a question he fails to answer either with a show of support or condemnation. If your arguement is sound and correct (and he thinks so out of necessity) then he should have no fear in answering me. I'm not going to faff about here with pointless distinctions, talk of history, foreign laws, ephebophilia, or any such distracting arguement. You think I'm wrong, thats fine and dandy, but it ain't important to the main thing I've been pushing to the main event.