Religion

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Earth is a speck of dust in the observable universe. There are countless stars, and countless planets orbiting them. Do you claim that, in his infinite wisdom, Allah could not foresee that mankind would travel to the poles, the Moon and beyond? Because it seems like the religious rules he has described that are not optional (farz) cannot be followed except a limited part of the surface of the Earth.

 

If you read what I posted: They can be observed on the poles, Mars, or even the surface of the Sun.

[Peace and War]

Idk tell me how Islam is the true religion compared to say Christianity or Judaism or something like Budism or Taoism or any other "isms" you can think of.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

If you read what I posted: They can be observed on the poles, Mars, or even the surface of the Sun.

 

What some clerics decide in Istanbul 35 years ago is not the word of Allah. Hence, you are not following Islam. You are following another religion build on it called Sunnism.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

What some clerics decide in Istanbul 35 years ago is not the word of Allah. Hence, you are not following Islam. You are following another religion build on it called Sunnism.

 

Prove to me that the conclusion of the scholars goes contrary to the teachings of the Quran and immediately they will be nullified, as the Quran always takes precedence, but their conclusion regarding this matter is derived from the Quran (words of Allah) and Hadith (sayings of the Prophet).

 

Sunni Islam is Islam, not a different religion, and more than 90% of the worlds Muslims are Sunnis.

 

The importance of the Scholars in Islam : 

 

‘but none will understand them except those who have knowledge’ [Quran 29:43]

 

‘And they will say: “Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!â€â€™ [Quran 67:10]

 

And He said:‘Are those who know equal to those who know not?’ [Quran 39:9]

 

It was narrated that Qays ibn Katheer said: “A man came from Madeenah to Abu’l-Darda’ in Damascus and he said, ‘What brought you here, my brother?’ He said, ‘A hadeeth which I have heard that you narrate from the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).’ He said, ‘Have you come for any other reason?’ He said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Have you come for trade?’ He said, ‘No. I have only come to seek this hadeeth.’ He said, ‘I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say, “Whoever follows a path to seek knowledge, Allah will make easy for him the path to Paradise. The angels beat their wings in approval of the seeker of knowledge, and those who are in the heavens and on earth pray for forgiveness for the scholar, even the fish in the water. The superiority of the scholar over the worshipper is like the superiority of the moon over all other heavenly bodies. The scholars are the heirs of the Prophets, for the Prophets did not leave behind dinars or dirhams, rather they left behind knowledge, so whoever gains knowledge has gained great good fortune.’†(Hadith narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2606; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani).

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Prove to me that the conclusion of the scholars goes contrary to the teachings of the Quran and immediately they will be nullified, as the Quran always takes precedence, but their conclusion regarding this matter is derived from the Quran (words of Allah) and Hadith (sayings of the Prophet).

 

Sunni Islam is Islam, not a different religion, and more than 90% of the worlds Muslims are Sunnis.

 

I need not prove anything. If you need scholars to fix the holes in Quran, it means it is incomplete and not universal. Without doubt, an omniscient and omnipotent entity would never do such a mistake. Hence Quran is nothing but the teachings of Muhammad, who was a regular human being, and not a prophet of any divine entity.

 

There are Muslims who only follow Quran and ignore all the BS accumulated over non-divine sources and called hadith. They see Sunnis and Shiites as non-Muslims.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

I need not prove anything. If you need scholars to fix the holes in Quran, it means it is incomplete and not universal. Without doubt, an omniscient and omnipotent entity would never do such a mistake. Hence Quran is nothing but the teachings of Muhammad, who was a regular human being, and not a prophet of any divine entity.

 

"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." (Quran 4:82)

 

"The revelation of this Book (Quran) is beyond doubt from the Lord of the Universe. Do say they, "He (Muhammad) has invented it himself?" No, it is the truth from your Lord, so that you may warn people to whom no warner has come before you, in order that they may be rightly guided." (Quran 32:2-3)

 

"If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down (revealed) to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your witnesses (to assist you), apart from Allah, if you are truthful. But if you cannot - as you certainly never can do it - then guard against the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for the disbelievers." (Quran 2:22-23)

 

The Quran has no holes, mistakes, or contradictions, and if you have anything to say to the contrary, then present your evidence or meet the challenge ^

 

There are Muslims who only follow Quran and ignore all the BS accumulated over non-divine sources and called hadith. They see Sunnis and Shiites as non-Muslims.

 

"And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and beware. And if you turn away - then know that upon Our Messenger is only [the responsibility for] clear notification." (Quran 5:92)

 

The Quran is the words of Allah verbatim, and not those of the Messenger. So in order for Muslims to follow the Messenger they need to follow his Sunnah which is written down in books of Hadith. These people you are referring to are not Muslims but clear apostates, and are considered as such by the entire Muslim Ummah.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Robert Ap Ioan]

Sunni Islam is Islam, not a different religion, and more than 90% of the worlds Muslims are Sunnis.

If Sunni Islam is Islam are the 10% not Muslim?

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

If Sunni Islam is Islam are the 10% not Muslim?

 

Yep, you're catching on.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

So basically your peddling bullsh again.

[Doktor Avalanche]

"Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction." (Quran 4:82)

 

"The revelation of this Book (Quran) is beyond doubt from the Lord of the Universe. Do say they, "He (Muhammad) has invented it himself?" No, it is the truth from your Lord, so that you may warn people to whom no warner has come before you, in order that they may be rightly guided." (Quran 32:2-3)

 

"If you are in doubt as to what We have sent down (revealed) to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your witnesses (to assist you), apart from Allah, if you are truthful. But if you cannot - as you certainly never can do it - then guard against the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, which is prepared for the disbelievers." (Quran 2:22-23)

 

The Quran has no holes, mistakes, or contradictions, and if you have anything to say to the contrary, then present your evidence or meet the challenge ^

 

 

"And obey Allah and obey the Messenger and beware. And if you turn away - then know that upon Our Messenger is only [the responsibility for] clear notification." (Quran 5:92)

 

The Quran is the words of Allah verbatim, and not those of the Messenger. So in order for Muslims to follow the Messenger they need to follow his Sunnah which is written down in books of Hadith. These people you are referring to are not Muslims but clear apostates, and are considered as such by the entire Muslim Ummah.

This places a lot of trust on texts documented by men recording the supposed words of one man. I understand the zeal and fervor of following and believing, but realistically it is placing a lot of faith on something that could have been corrupted. The Jews at least debate the meaning behind the Talmud without calling each other Apostates when they disagree. Why is this considered an Apostate act between the Sunni and the Shia?

Edited October 30, 2015 by VasiliusKonstantinos

[Moon Man]

I need not prove anything. If you need scholars to fix the holes in Quran, it means it is incomplete and not universal. Without doubt, an omniscient and omnipotent entity would never do such a mistake. Hence Quran is nothing but the teachings of Muhammad, who was a regular human being, and not a prophet of any divine entity.

 

There are Muslims who only follow Quran and ignore all the BS accumulated over non-divine sources and called hadith. They see Sunnis and Shiites as non-Muslims.

 

Not really trying to stick up for Islam (I disagree with this religion for a number of reasons), but good lord the book is already huge as crap. With all of the future stuff put in there, it would confuse the heck out of anybody who read it back then. I'm surprised that they already had the stuff about what to do if you are on the moon.

 

But what would Islam say about meat that was cloned? I saw a thing on the television once about some guys making a hamburger with science. Could it be made Halal?

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

This places a lot of trust on texts documented by men recording the supposed words of one man. I understand the zeal and fervor of following and believing, but realistically it is placing a lot of faith on something that could have been corrupted. The Jews at least debate the meaning behind the Talmud without calling each other Apostates when they disagree. Why is this considered an Apostate act between the Sunni and the Shia?

 

That bible was written 500 years after all the companions of Jesus (AS) passed away so It has certainly been corrupted, but this is not the case with the Quran. It has been preserved and remains exactly the same as it was first revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (saw). If a Muslim goes against the Quran then they are no longer considered Muslim (as the meaning of the word "Muslim" is one who submits to Allah) and this what the Shia have done by:

1. Worshiping the dead.
2. Building shrines.
3. Innovating in the religion.
4. Seeking intermediaries in their prayer.
5. Considering the closest companions of the Prophet to be apostates.
6. Insulting the mother of believers and calling her chastity into question.

I can go on and on but the Shia are clear cut apostates and all the Scholars as well as the entire Muslim community is unanimous in regarding them as such. Indeed, for a Muslim to call Shia (with the exception of the Zaidi sub sect) "Muslims" is an act of apostasy in itself. 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Fox Fire]

That bible was written 500 years after all the companions of Jesus (AS) passed away so It has certainly been corrupted, but this is not the case with the Quran. It has been preserved and remains exactly the same as it was first revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (saw). If a Muslim goes against the Quran then they are no longer considered Muslim (as the meaning of the word "Muslim" is one who submits to Allah) and this what the Shia have done by:

1. Worshiping the dead.
2. Building shrines.
3. Innovating in the religion.
4. Seeking intermediaries in their prayer.
5. Considering the closest companions of the Prophet to be apostates.
6. Insulting the mother of believers and calling her chastity into question.

I can go on and on but the Shia are clear cut apostates and all the Scholars as well as the entire Muslim community is unanimous in regarding them as such. Indeed, for a Muslim to call Shia (with the exception of the Zaidi sub sect) "Muslims" is an act of apostasy in itself. 

So is following Muhammads word and honoring his life considered worshiping the dead? If not, please explain. And please explain why the respect shown to Muhammad cannot be shown to everyone.

In Christianity, we were taught that God loves all his creation. So why the bias?

Also, this is totally going to sound like a dick move but.... Muhammad raped an 8 yr old girl. Is that what you call chastity? 

Because that's not chastity or even right if you ask me.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

With all of the future stuff put in there, it would confuse the heck out of anybody who read it back then. I'm surprised that they already had the stuff about what to do if you are on the moon.

 

But what would Islam say about meat that was cloned? I saw a thing on the television once about some guys making a hamburger with science. Could it be made Halal?

 

It is permissible/Halal to eat the meat of cloned animals as long as it is proven beyond doubt that it's 100% safe (this is not the case now). Until then we have to stick to consuming the meat of animals produced naturally by our eco system, as it is known to be safe, and since there isn't a need to consume cloned meat now. [source]

[Doktor Avalanche]

That bible was written 500 years after all the companions of Jesus (AS) passed away so It has certainly been corrupted, but this is not the case with the Quran. It has been preserved and remains exactly the same as it was first revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (saw). If a Muslim goes against the Quran then they are no longer considered Muslim (as the meaning of the word "Muslim" is one who submits to Allah) and this what the Shia have done by:

• Worshiping the dead.
• Building shrines.
• Innovating in the religion.
• Seeking intermediaries in their prayer.
• Considering the closest companions of the Prophet to be apostates.
• Insulting the mother of believers and calling her chastity into question.

I can go on and on but the Shia are clear cut apostates and all the Scholars as well as the entire Muslim community is unanimous in regarding them as such. Indeed, for a Muslim to call Shia (with the exception of the Zaidi sub sect) "Muslims" is an act of apostasy in itself.

I was actually referring to the multiple writings of the Hadith. I should have specified this. My mistake, sir.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

So is following the words of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and honoring his life considered worshiping the dead? If not, please explain.

 

No. Worship means praying/supplicating to him and Muslims certainly do not worship Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

Alawites (a Shia sub sect/Assad's religion) worship Ali, a cousin of Prophet Muhammad (saw), and even other Shia sects consider them to be apostates.

 

And please explain why the respect shown to Prophet Muhammad (saw) cannot be shown to everyone.

 

Don't ask such a silly question; every Muslim (without exception) would gladly sacrifice his/her mother and farther, as well as anyone else they hold dear, for Prophet Muhammad (saw). Respect is a privilege, not a right, and is given to everyone accordingly.

 

In Christianity, we were taught that God loves all his creation. So why the bias?

 

Better question is: Who taught you Christianity? ;P    i jk

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: ¹⁷ Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, ¹⁸ A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, ¹⁹ A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Also, this is totally going to sound like a dick move but.... Prophet Muhammad (saw) married an 8 yr old girl. Is that what you call chastity? 

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Fox Fire]

No. Worship means praying/supplicating to him and Muslims certainly do not worship Prophet Muhammad (saw).

 

Alawites (a Shia sub sect/Assad's religion) worship Ali, a cousin of Prophet Muhammad (saw), and even other Shia sects consider them to be apostates.

 

 

Don't ask such a silly question; every Muslim (without exception) would gladly sacrifice his/her mother and farther, as well as anyone else they hold dear, for Prophet Muhammad (saw). Respect is a privilege, not a right, and is given to everyone accordingly.

 

 

Better question is: Who taught you Christianity? ;P    i jk

• Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
• Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
• Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."
• Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: ¹⁷ Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, ¹⁸ A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, ¹⁹ A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
• Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

 

>Claims Shia worship Ali.

>Tries to justify child rape. 

You're insane. 

[Dimitri Valko]

<snip>

 

Do you think raping children and murdering polytheists is acceptable...?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Dimitri Valko

[Fox Fire]

Do you think raping children and murdering polytheists is acceptable...?

Obviously he does. Of course, he will twist it to make it sound like he doesn't.

It's OK to &#33;@#&#036; 8 yr olds if God says it's OK.

/Sarcasm

[Dimitri Valko]

Obviously he does. Of course, he will twist it to make it sound like he doesn't.

It's OK to !@#$ 8 yr olds if God says it's OK.

/Sarcasm

 

Wasn't she actually six? We're talking about the daughter of Abu Bakr, yes?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Dimitri Valko

[Fox Fire]

Wasn't she actually six? We're talking about the daughter of Abu Bakr, yes?

I suppose. IIRC, he "bedded" her when she was 8. Maybe I'm wrong but it's still &#33;@#&#036;ed up. 

In regards to the video, the difference between Muhammad's days and everyone else, is that everyone else has long since agreed that child rape and forced marriage in an effort to legally condone child rape is not OK. For Salafists, this is not the case. Because they as fundamentalists, they still believe that the norms of 1000 years ago are acceptable and holy. 

#Sharia4America

[Greatnate]

 

If Sunni Islam is Islam are the 10% not Muslim?

Yep, you're catching on.

 

So do you public denounce the Amman Message? Since the head scholars of what I understand to be mainstream Sunni Islam and mainstream Shia Islam have agreed that neither are apostates, but Ash'arites, Sufis, and Salafists are apostates. Care to shed some light on this issue?

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Prophet Muhammad (saw) spent the first 54 years of his life married only to Khadija, who was a widow and 15 years his senior, until she passed away. His decision to marry Aisha (RA) was not out of his own desire but a divine inspiration:

 

That the Prophet said to her, “You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me). ‘This is your wife.’ When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, ‘If this is from Allah, it will be done.†(Bukhari)

 

The marriage with Aisha (RA) was consummated after she reached the age of puberty (9), so she could not have been considered to be a child, and It's completely prohibited in Islam to marry someone before the age of puberty. Also Aisha (RA) went on to 1) narrate the most Ahadith from the Prophet (saw), 2) become the most learned among the all his Companions, 3) become a social and military leader of the Muslim community. Aisha (RA) is still regarded as the "Mother of the believers" and is seen as a role model, as well as a source of inspiration, for billions of people around the world today.

 

Abu Musa al-Ashari says: "Never had we (the companions) any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her". (Tirmidhi, Hadith 3883. Albani classified it as Sahih)

 

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Peter Quill]

Doesn't change the fact that &#33;@#&#036;ing an 8-year old is plain disgusting.

[Rozalia]

 

 

Is that supposed to be you claiming that Muhammad having sex with an underage girl to be a lie? Well as you don't deny it happened I'll just take it as you bringing up an unrelated quote/video and posting it like it means anything, as per usual.  

 

I've seen some defenses on the matter before. For example putting her age as older (much older in some cases) which renders them as liars but hey, at least they know it's wrong. You? Not so much, all dandy to you which would explain why you have no problem supporting those pedophiles ISIS too.

Anyway looking at the reason for the marriage... why didn't Muhammad instead of marrying and in modern terms raping a child, not instead simply adopt her as his daughter? In Japan for example adoptions were often used for strengthening ties. Why not do that instead?

 

In fact I find the whole matter to be one of the worse parts of Islam. Guys like you are so terrified of being labeled what you condemn so many others to be that you can't even condemn pedophilia as that would mean condemning Muhammad. Saying it was all a "product of his time" is no defense. He is supposed to be a prophet, heck the supposed final prophet and yet he didn't raise the bar of morality above all the Pagans (well actually some of those Pagans were above him in morality there but whatever) about at the time and get rid of such pedophilia, instead indulging in it himself? He was certainly in a strong enough position to do so, yet he didn't.

 

Can you condemn pedophilia right now for us? All those "marriages" with children going on included and of course Muhammad's little affair there? Surely condemning pedophilia is the easiest thing in the world so lets hear it Ibrahim. I'd ask to condemn ISIS for it too but we all know you could never do that... or as Muhammad lived a perfect life and all that and you should try to emulate the prophet... is pedophilia a correct thing? You support pedophilia?