Princess Bubblegum Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I don't want to intrude too much on this; I don't have anything against Princess Bubblegum (even though I think you did raid my nation during the speed round, but that's all in the past now) and I'm good friends with Belisarius. However, I'm just confused on one point: Why is it the only valid spy operation? Admittedly, it's pretty irrefutable, but unless you don't trust abbas, I don't see how a gather intelligence operation is falsifiable - it's just not visible to everyone if it succeeds. A kill spy operation would have had 2 outcomes: 1) failure: Belisarius would have been exposed on the defender's end. Since we'd have done it on a third party, we'd rely on the third party to be truthful in the matter. 2) success: Belisarius' spy capture count would have increased, proving he could do an action By doing a successful gather intel, there's no guarantee on who actually did the operation. I mean they could have even purposefully failed the gather intel OP, I suppose, but they didn't. They used max chances of success to maintain anonymity (whoever did the operation spent $207,846 to make damn sure the op didn't fail.). All we know is someone did an op. We don't know who. Edited January 11, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiney Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) A kill spy operation would have had 2 outcomes: 1) failure: Belisarius would have been exposed on the defender's end. Since we'd have done it on a third party, we'd rely on the third party to be truthful in the matter. 2) success: Belisarius' spy capture count would have increased, proving he could do an action By doing a successful gather intel, there's no guarantee on who actually did the operation. I mean they could have even purposefully failed the gather intel OP, I suppose, but they didn't. They used max chances of success to maintain anonymity (whoever did the operation spent $207,846 to make damn sure the op didn't fail.). All we know is someone did an op. We don't know who. If they spent that much money, surely it won't be bel since he has 50 spies and could have just used more spies and the cheapest action. Infact it must be someone with only 4 spies who did it with extremely covert options. Edited January 11, 2015 by Phiney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 If they spent that much money, surely it won't be bel since he has 50 spies and could have just used more spies and the cheapest action. Infact it must be someone with only 4 spies who did it with extremely covert options. Wow, nice catch. I owe you one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I don't want to intrude too much on this; I don't have anything against Princess Bubblegum (even though I think you did raid my nation during the speed round, but that's all in the past now) and I'm good friends with Belisarius. However, I'm just confused on one point: Why is it the only valid spy operation? Admittedly, it's pretty irrefutable, but unless you don't trust abbas, I don't see how a gather intelligence operation is falsifiable - it's just not visible to everyone if it succeeds. Gather Intel is exactly what one would do to be unable to prove their innocence. "I can't prove my innocence because I did gather Intel to prove my innocence." It was worthless except as an excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Unprovoked aggression from the 1%... Thousands of mourners poured out today in remembrance of those gallant men murdered at the hands of underhanded thugs sent at the behest of Belisarius and GPA government. 3 men who served to defend the Candy nation bravely gave their lives in the line of duty. They gave their lives for freedom from the oppression of the 1%'ers of the world. They shall serve as martyrs to the cause of freedom from oligarchical oppression. Read the roll of honour for Candy Kingdom's bravest guys We must be united in memory of the spies, GPA you're a monster, don't think that you have won We will never be defeated while Candy Kingdom has such sons. The 1% know they can't let the little people rise up, so they've resorted to underhanded and despicable tactics. I say no more! I hope you will, too. Please condemn the tyrants... This entire thread is hilarious. 1 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur James Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) 1) you must have raid one of the members before he want to spy on you=> show the statistic of took down spy was 1+ up, and sent Pb a letter to warn his members not to raid his team (which PB said no) 2) Co-instance, there are some raiders not part of pb team and he success to do the job. 3) simply propaganda 4) Belsarius did spy on the 99% alliance bcos of the rigorious war mechine of the low score members, but out of suspicion that the team would target one of GPA low score members, thus he did spy ops as a form of checking to know the potential of how threathening of the alliance maybe... unless 1) you receive failare spy ops and you catch it or 2) success and warn him bcos of the raiding actions, there wouldn't be a post of this issue.... hmm, i still don't see the strong evidence Belisarius did it. You(PB) can put him as the strongest suspicious person in your case, but I see no strong evidence it is his job....any big nations can do that thing potentially.. especially those who can afford to sustain numerous of spies WOW Belisarius, you got 50 spies with killing 9 spies, 7tanks and 4 aircraft.... who are those you killed belonged to? Edited January 11, 2015 by Arthur James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashland Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Do they fight you bcos you own them alot of debt and they seek to take it back? remember the ashland's programe Now I can experience the STRENGTH of masterblaster. What the !@#$? 1 Quote ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [10:47] you used to be the voice of irc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataraxis Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If there's anyone who I'd trust to analyze real-time P&W data, it's Princess Bubblegum. Remember the Abbas incident back in Alpha? Yeah. Quote #6 in P&W Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naTia Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) After reading the first two pages and then skimming the third, I think that it is fair to say that Belisarius' actions were very suspicious. A gather intel is worthless if it does not fail and a spy is captured. I haven't seen a single notable counter-claim other than "remember the speedround?" and "this is a joke". I have seen solid evidence by PB (and Phiney), who has caught some of the faintest evidence in the past, including: spy count increasing/decreasing, amount of spies used based on monetary usage, and repeated actions. Even offering a fair amount of money to fund it, PB was giving Belisarius a chance to give proof of his spy op for the day. Instead he decided against doing a credible action citing "skimming". tl;dr: pics or didn't happen, Belisarius Edited January 11, 2015 by The Captain Nao 1 Quote Resident DJ @ Club Orbis Founder of The Warehouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Placentica Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) I'm just happy to see GPA not afraid to post for the usual replies of "zomg not neutral!" Neutrality is whatever they want it to be. With that said, it's pretty easy to figure out who spied on you. Spy attacks prob. need to have range limits, even if I like the fact they don't have any. Edited January 11, 2015 by Placentica Quote Hello! If you don't like this post please go here: https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=usercp&tab=core&area=ignoredusers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'm just happy to see GPA not afraid to post for the usual replies of "zomg not neutral!" Neutrality is whatever they want it to be. With that said, it's pretty easy to figure out who spied on you. Spy attacks prob. need to have range limits, even if I like the fact they don't have any. The truth is that neutrality is total crap,because if they are able to redefine it as they see fit then it is completely meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Nao he stated this This is what I get for skimming your posts (since reading them is a chore). I spied on someone for a intel gather. I shared the details with Abbas (who you sent to me on IRC). He can confirm receipt of the screenshots. I won't name the person spied, and will only post the screenshots when he allows it. But he will get a 10 dollar donation from me for my troubles. That, and he can spy me for all eternity and I wouldn't mind Late Edit: Stalking nations is what you do. Not well, but you do it. So he doesn't want to share information that can be used to choose a raid target. Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Nao he stated this So he doesn't want to share information that can be used to choose a raid target. the question is,why does a neutral need to spy for intel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) the question is,why does a neutral need to spy for intel?Did you read the thread? PB asked him to do a spy op and he did so. Edit: reworded my comment, thought it a bit rude Edited January 11, 2015 by Lunan Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ELPINCHAZO Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Did you read the thread? PB asked him to do a spy op and he did so. Edit: reworded my comment, thought it a bit rude maybe he just wants the raid target for himself?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 maybe he just wants the raid target for himself?! Not our problem Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiney Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Nao he stated this So he doesn't want to share information that can be used to choose a raid target. If you read between the lines a little you'd realise he did give him the info, just on IRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Did you read the thread? PB asked him to do a spy op and he did so. Edit: reworded my comment, thought it a bit rude It's funny, every time I asked for him to do a spy operation, I was pretty unambiguous as to what I was asking him to do (i.e. kill spies). If you read between the lines a little you'd realise he did give him the info, just on IRC. Yes, there was a screenshot shared of a gather intel operation. I'm not doubting that a gather intel operation occurred. My doubts are just regarding who executed it. Edited January 11, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If you read between the lines a little you'd realise he did give him the info, just on IRC. Indeed he did but would you trust any of us not to take advantage of someone's info if we were given it? I wouldn't, but I am very paranoid so my opinion is moot. I will beat a dead horse till it stops moving. If it still moves it has some life in it. Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naTia Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Indeed he did but would you trust any of us not to take advantage of someone's info if we were given it? I wouldn't, but I am very paranoid so my opinion is moot. I will beat a dead horse till it stops moving. If it still moves it has some life in it. Lunan, the problem is that anybody could have gathered intel and shared the info with Belisarius. What I want is a picture that proves Belisarius did the intel op, otherwise I doubt he did it. Quote Resident DJ @ Club Orbis Founder of The Warehouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well one thing is true why should he have to prove he didn't do it? Why doesn't PB just submit proof he did it and be done with it. This is a Russel's teapot scenario in my opinion. Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Bubblegum Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Well one thing is true why should he have to prove he didn't do it? Why doesn't PB just submit proof he did it and be done with it. This is a Russel's teapot scenario in my opinion. There is no way to prove it on my end. Screenshots are too easily fabricated to be considered evidence on their own. I witnessed his capture count increase. I could post a screenshot of it going from 8 to 9, but it's completely meaningless and isn't even evidence. I can even take a screenshot of a message saying Belisarius was caught spying by my own spies. I can do that by manipulating the HTML. Screenshots just aren't evidence for something like this. They are unverifiable on their own. Of course GPA knows this, so when they shout for screenshots as evidence, any screenshot I would have put up (let's assume they are genuine) would have just been called a fake, and there would be no null test to say otherwise. I offered a fair test to Belisarius. It was the only method I know of to resolve the issue with certainty. Edited January 12, 2015 by Princess Bubblegum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aesir Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Well you have fun then. Quote Art by Faroreswind159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoS Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There is no way to prove it on my end. Screenshots are too easily fabricated to be considered evidence on their own. I witnessed his capture count increase. I could post a screenshot of it going from 8 to 9, but it's completely meaningless and isn't even evidence. I can even take a screenshot of a message saying Belisarius was caught spying by my own spies. I can do that by manipulating the HTML. Screenshots just aren't evidence for something like this. They are unverifiable on their own. Of course GPA knows this, so when they shout for screenshots as evidence, any screenshot I would have put up (let's assume they are genuine) would have just been called a fake, and there would be no null test to say otherwise. I offered a fair test to Belisarius. It was the only method I know of to resolve the issue with certainty. Strong evidence combined with sabotaging the only means to prove innocence is certainty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashland Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Strong evidence combined with sabotaging the only means to prove innocence is certainty. Where is the strong evidence? PB has said "I say he did it! And, well, can you prove that he DIDN'T do it?" If you think that that logic is strong evidence, you don't belong here. You belong in the 1600's at Salem. @PB it does NOT prove that with certainty. All it would prove, hypothetically, would be that Belisarius sent *a* spy mission today. Not that he did it against you. You're asking us to prove a negative. How about we just ask you to constantly prove that you're not spying on us by doing this test? Short of catching their spy, there's no definitive way of proving. This idiotic concept of guilty until proven innocent is enough to drive a sane man crazy. PB is a raider and has an axe to grind with Belisarius and GPA. He has no proof. He has no explanation why Belisarius would do this (though the more I interact with him the more I'd understand someone messing with him). He has nothing. Anyone who buys into any of this cockamamie !@#$ is seeing what they want to see and nothing more. That's really all that's going on here. Is it really surprising that people would start seeking retribution on this guy? Just look at the things he's done in-game. Look at how he's behaved on this thread. Seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if he had tons of enemies. Edited January 12, 2015 by Ashland 2 Quote ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [10:47] you used to be the voice of irc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.