Buorhann Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 hours ago, Vein said: Could you explain more in details? I don't regret us giving TFP the 72h, if anything it has just exposed their true color even beyond what i was expecting. Explain what exactly? Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said: I feel like it would be quite a leap of assumptions to say "An alliance that has been hostile towards us since before Darkest Hour has told us of their intentions to sign with the alliance that is clearly the most hostile towards us. This is a sign of good faith and of good things to come." I would be more inclined to agree with your point if there had been a history of friendship and cooperation and openness between T$ and TFP, but there hasn't been. I'd be more inclined to agree if there had been a history of openness and friendship between Shwin and I, but there hasn't been. At no point since I became Executive has Shwin reached out to me or my staff about improving relations, or mending fences or anything of the sort, and outside of the one screenshot presented in Shwin's first post I don't know of any instances of that happening before I became Executive either. Hells, even in the very matter that led to this situation, the questioning of intentions after TFP was removed from WELP, Shwin reached out to CTO and Aurora about their intentions and asked THEM to ask T$ and SAIL of our intentions instead of coming to talk to us ourselves. You're asking that we'd put a great deal of trust and faith in an alliance that we've had multiple years of bad blood with, have heard for months has has had ill will towards us, and has never reached out to us to improve relations or mend fences, especially when T$ has been bitten in the past when putting faith in and trusting other alliances to have good intentions towards us. What alliances did you put faith/trust in that have bit you in the rear? I’m very curious about this. Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Julius Caesar Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Buorhann said: What alliances did you put faith/trust in that have bit you in the rear? I’m very curious about this. Two best examples are probably the Hollywood-Celestial demil situation back in 2022 where both sides de-milled, Hollywood re-milled to deal with raids from pirates and then hit Celestial despite telling Celestial their remilling was just to handle the pirates, and the NPO situation in 2019, where T$ believed that NPO and BK had actually split and that NPO was an ally that would keep its word....... and everyone recalls how that one went. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buorhann Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said: where T$ believed that NPO and BK had actually split and that NPO was an ally that would keep its word....... and everyone recalls how that one went. I can't speak on the Hollywood bit, but the NPO one? I personally warned Syndicate that they were lieing to you guys. Still, I see your point on that one. (btw, weren't you also defending NPO back then? Pretty sure you were) But are you really putting TFP up there with Hollywood and NPO/BK? Edited January 19 by Buorhann 1 1 Quote Warrior of Dio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfPCFQfOnLg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartarus Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 14 minutes ago, Buorhann said: I can't speak on the Hollywood bit, but the NPO one? I personally warned Syndicate that they were lieing to you guys. Still, I see your point on that one. (btw, weren't you also defending NPO back then? Pretty sure you were) But are you really putting TFP up there with Hollywood and NPO/BK? (He was BK Foreign Affairs high gov) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Julius Caesar Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Buorhann said: I can't speak on the Hollywood bit, but the NPO one? I personally warned Syndicate that they were lieing to you guys. Still, I see your point on that one. (btw, weren't you also defending NPO back then? Pretty sure you were) But are you really putting TFP up there with Hollywood and NPO/BK? I wasn't in T$ at the time back for NPO, I was in BK and a whelp wet behind the ears, so I can't attest to who said what back then beyond what I've heard. For TFP though, what I'm saying is that assuming the best of an alliance takes some trust, and that isn't something that is just freely handed out. There was no effort from TFP's part in that regard, including no effort from Shwin towards me as alliance head to alliance head. Taking something as a gesture of goodwill, or a sign that things will turn out better than they look takes trust. There was no explanation for the move, even though you're right and TFP didn't have to say that they were signing with Sing. All we were given was that a hostile alliance planned on signing with another hostile alliance that wants to roll us for revenge. No explanation was given and no "Hey were going to work on mending the fence and preventing a revenge war" was given. Perhaps we're going to be called opportunistic for this, but everyone in this game is opportunistic, that's part of the game. 5 minutes ago, Tartarus said: (He was BK Foreign Affairs high gov) At the time the war started, I was a normal member. I was made low gov about a month into the war and made a figurehead "high gov" December of that year, about two and a half months before the end of the war. Edited January 19 by Gaius Julius Caesar Misspelled 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Titan Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 22 hours ago, Vein said: Could you explain more in details? I don't regret us giving TFP the 72h, if anything it has just exposed their true color even beyond what i was expecting. The fact they were so quick to leak on you certainly says something... 1 Quote Peace in our time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockrider1 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 19 hours ago, Gaius Julius Caesar said: I feel like it would be quite a leap of assumptions to say "An alliance that has been hostile towards us since before Darkest Hour has told us of their intentions to sign with the alliance that is clearly the most hostile towards us. This is a sign of good faith and of good things to come." I would be more inclined to agree with your point if there had been a history of friendship and cooperation and openness between T$ and TFP, but there hasn't been. I'd be more inclined to agree if there had been a history of openness and friendship between Shwin and I, but there hasn't been. At no point since I became Executive has Shwin reached out to me or my staff about improving relations, or mending fences or anything of the sort, and outside of the one screenshot presented in Shwin's first post I don't know of any instances of that happening before I became Executive either. Hells, even in the very matter that led to this situation, the questioning of intentions after TFP was removed from WELP, Shwin reached out to CTO and Aurora about their intentions and asked THEM to ask T$ and SAIL of our intentions instead of coming to talk to us ourselves. You're asking that we'd put a great deal of trust and faith in an alliance that we've had multiple years of bad blood with, have heard for months has has had ill will towards us, and has never reached out to us to improve relations or mend fences, especially when T$ has been bitten in the past when putting faith in and trusting other alliances to have good intentions towards us. While I'm aware we historically have not had much of a relationship, I reached out to try establishing one (at the suggestion of Shwin) before any of these issues popped up. SS is from T$ Discord. I won't try arguing that a relatively short conversation with a relatively unknown FA head was supposed to be enough to change your view of us, but the effort was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiho Nishizumi Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 50 minutes ago, Shockrider1 said: While I'm aware we historically have not had much of a relationship, I reached out to try establishing one (at the suggestion of Shwin) before any of these issues popped up. SS is from T$ Discord. I won't try arguing that a relatively short conversation with a relatively unknown FA head was supposed to be enough to change your view of us, but the effort was there. I mean, there was more chatter in that brief convo than there was in the embassy for the entirety of the past year. While embassy chatter is hardly the defining aspect of a relationship, it does serve to show, alongside everything else, how glacial the relationship's been. But yeah, a brief one-time exchange on the public channel in t$' main discord (the FA one is a separate one, for the record) doesn't amount to much. These sorts of things are a fairly constant undertaking, especially if the starting point is a strained relationship rather than a neutral one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Thank you @Shwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockrider1 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 On 1/19/2024 at 4:24 PM, Shiho Nishizumi said: But yeah, a brief one-time exchange on the public channel in t$' main discord (the FA one is a separate one, for the record) doesn't amount to much. These sorts of things are a fairly constant undertaking, especially if the starting point is a strained relationship rather than a neutral one. Fair point. Again, though, the effort was there, whereas I haven't seen anyone from your side reach out to us - feel free to correct me if I missed something/someone. We genuinely aimed to improve relations to at least a friendly acquaintance basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eumirbago Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, Shockrider1 said: Fair point. Again, though, the effort was there, whereas I haven't seen anyone from your side reach out to us - feel free to correct me if I missed something/someone. We genuinely aimed to improve relations to at least a friendly acquaintance basis. I would like to issue a VoNC for anyone that did try to improve relations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 1/24/2024 at 11:08 PM, Eumirbago said: I would like to issue a VoNC for anyone that did try to improve relations. A what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheseNutDisplayOnYoChin Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 did anyone actually read that? That’s like 100,000 words essay. Can someone tell me what happen in 50 words? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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