Andruwu Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 I've fought pirates seeking to raid and plunder nations in my alliance. However I have noticed that none of them have the Pirate Economy project. I would be interested to know the reasoning on why this project isn't as popular or crucial as it could be at first glance. 6 Offensive wars from 5 sounds like a revenue increase of 20% to me Any pirates care to enlighten me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potato Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Projects come from infra, if you look at most pirate nations they have more projects than their infra can support. They also have like sub 1000 infra per city. I'm sure many pirates would like this project, but it's entirely infeasible due to the cost of buying that much infra for a single project. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Scarfalot Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Yeah, if anything that's a misnomer and should read "Nuke turret economy" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedge Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 Well the catch with pirate econ is that its of more use in lower tier raiding where there is an abundance of targets; less cities = less project slots and there are several projects which you would prioritise over pirate econ. Once you start getting into mid/upper tier the relative value of the extra slot diminishes significantly; at that level making $$$ is far more about quality of targets than quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zephyr Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Swedge said: Well the catch with pirate econ is that its of more use in lower tier raiding where there is an abundance of targets; less cities = less project slots and there are several projects which you would prioritise over pirate econ. Once you start getting into mid/upper tier the relative value of the extra slot diminishes significantly; at that level making $$$ is far more about quality of targets than quantity. I have Pirate Economy and think it's worth the investment, but I also have no plans of developing past 3 cities for a while. At current market rates my spreadsheet suggests it pays itself off in about 32 days. I think it's probably not a bad choice for nations expecting to raid low tier for a while during peacetime, but if you were rolling into battle I guess it'd be sensible to build one of the 'essential' military projects instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swedge Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Zephyr said: I have Pirate Economy and think it's worth the investment, but I also have no plans of developing past 3 cities for a while. At current market rates my spreadsheet suggests it pays itself off in about 32 days. I think it's probably not a bad choice for nations expecting to raid low tier for a while during peacetime, but if you were rolling into battle I guess it'd be sensible to build one of the 'essential' military projects instead. Sure, if you plan on staying at 3 cities then makes sense. But if you're building cities then yeah you're going to place more priority on stuff like MLP and the urban planning projects. Tbh if it had been introduced pre-score changes then there would probably be more people running it; but with the current system most mid/upper tier pirates will use the slot on something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/20/2020 at 1:44 AM, Andruwu said: I've fought pirates seeking to raid and plunder nations in my alliance. However I have noticed that none of them have the Pirate Economy project. I would be interested to know the reasoning on why this project isn't as popular or crucial as it could be at first glance. 6 Offensive wars from 5 sounds like a revenue increase of 20% to me Any pirates care to enlighten me? On 9/20/2020 at 1:56 AM, Potpie99 said: Projects come from infra, if you look at most pirate nations they have more projects than their infra can support. They also have like sub 1000 infra per city. I'm sure many pirates would like this project, but it's entirely infeasible due to the cost of buying that much infra for a single project. On 9/20/2020 at 2:12 AM, Sir Scarfalot said: Yeah, if anything that's a misnomer and should read "Nuke turret economy" On 9/20/2020 at 2:40 PM, Swedge said: Well the catch with pirate econ is that its of more use in lower tier raiding where there is an abundance of targets; less cities = less project slots and there are several projects which you would prioritise over pirate econ. Once you start getting into mid/upper tier the relative value of the extra slot diminishes significantly; at that level making $$$ is far more about quality of targets than quantity. On 9/20/2020 at 11:19 PM, Zephyr said: I have Pirate Economy and think it's worth the investment, but I also have no plans of developing past 3 cities for a while. At current market rates my spreadsheet suggests it pays itself off in about 32 days. I think it's probably not a bad choice for nations expecting to raid low tier for a while during peacetime, but if you were rolling into battle I guess it'd be sensible to build one of the 'essential' military projects instead. You are all allowed to say what you mean to say: Pirate Economy is a trash project. No one cares if you can raid an extra slot at c3, No one wants an extra slot at c10 or higher. 20% more income doesn't matter at c3, you're not there for the income if you're camping in the bottom tier. The benefit of an extra slot is the ability to cast your net wide, but by the time you're not in the single-digit city count you need to refine your strategy or get rolled every time you go declare 6 raids and receive 3 counters. Arrgh doesn't avoid it because of infra costs, Arrgh avoids it because it's objectively bad. Any other military project is better than Pirate Economy right now, even for a pirate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 Well it's mainly benefit the micro tier raiders, higher citied raiders have to go for quality targets over quantity to meet ends meet. What more it is frankly ridiculous expensive for what you get. It cost over 150 mil with current market prices, and keep in mind we currently on a 6 month low when it comes to the market. It aren't going be your first project, i tell you that much. And frankly there is so many project that have higher benefit to us pirates, even in the low tier. With a far lower cost to boost. That it going take quite a while before one care enough to invest into it, rather then i don't know buy another city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zephyr Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 4 hours ago, Roberts said: You are all allowed to say what you mean to say: Pirate Economy is a trash project. No one cares if you can raid an extra slot at c3, No one wants an extra slot at c10 or higher. 20% more income doesn't matter at c3, you're not there for the income if you're camping in the bottom tier. The benefit of an extra slot is the ability to cast your net wide, but by the time you're not in the single-digit city count you need to refine your strategy or get rolled every time you go declare 6 raids and receive 3 counters. Arrgh doesn't avoid it because of infra costs, Arrgh avoids it because it's objectively bad. Any other military project is better than Pirate Economy right now, even for a pirate. No, I think it is a worthwhile investment...for me sitting at 3 cities raiding unaligned inactives. Agreed it sounds like a bad choice for anyone else, but it lets me soak up more loot from easily raided dead nations. I was only commenting from my own perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deborah Kobayashi Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) I think the biggest deterrent is its cost, its priced as a mid tier to upper mid tier project, but is much more beneficial in the low, micro & nano tiers. As others have pointed out when your past c10 finding 6 quality loot sources at once becomes harder to do, and you really can only count the lowest loot of those 6 wars towards its ROI. For it to be a project that is really attractive pirates it needs to either have a price reduction or more benefits, like increasing loot, reducing improvement loss chances or something else that appeals to pirate & raider builds & playstyles, or possibly even a connected project that requires it with benefits appealing enough to warrant 2 slots & the combined costs. I have one but im not under the delusion that it is that meaningful to my loot profits. I have mine for a few reasons, aesthetics, and to keep an extra slot for countering or for raiding an inactive from the alliance that counters me, as well as for future uses if i go nuclear one day. There are many projects that should be prioritized first, so by the time those are handled it has usually lost most of its appeal for raiders & pirates. Edited September 24, 2020 by Deborah Kobayashi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarr Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 On 9/23/2020 at 12:24 PM, Roberts said: You are all allowed to say what you mean to say: Pirate Economy is a trash project. No one cares if you can raid an extra slot at c3, No one wants an extra slot at c10 or higher. 20% more income doesn't matter at c3, you're not there for the income if you're camping in the bottom tier. The benefit of an extra slot is the ability to cast your net wide, but by the time you're not in the single-digit city count you need to refine your strategy or get rolled every time you go declare 6 raids and receive 3 counters. Arrgh doesn't avoid it because of infra costs, Arrgh avoids it because it's objectively bad. Any other military project is better than Pirate Economy right now, even for a pirate. So arrgh with VDS are coming? 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted September 29, 2020 Share Posted September 29, 2020 11 hours ago, Yarr said: So arrgh with VDS are coming? 🤔 VDS is unironically better than Pirate Econ, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglet Guyn Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) Hello. I am really torn about this, about whether to get it. I do agree that for 99% of the player base, this is a bad choice. However, I am looking at it from my own perspective, which is that I am at C3 (three cities) and have 100 meaningless victories and PB already built. So the 100 victories gives me room for it, and for me it would pay for itself by 2022. Perhaps sooner. But the resource cost makes buying this $160,000,000.00 dollars, roughly. That's crazy. Assuming approximately $3 million per raid, that would be 53 extra raids, and with a raid every 2 days, that's 104 days. Call it 3 or 4 months. That's assuming staying at C3 for 4 months. The minute I shoot up to C4 or C5, that total drops to $2 million per raid, 80 extra raids and so 160 days. 5 to 6 months. So it's not worth getting unless I commit to staying at C3 for those 5 or 6 months. In fact, I just looked at my nation. I've made $370 million in 100 battles in 45 days, so that's roughly $3.7 million per battle. If that had been 120 battles, theoretically I might have made... an extra 20%, so that's 37 +37... so that's 74 million more. If allowed to buy this ahead of time, on loan, it might be worth it, but at this point I don't know if it's feasible. Well, it's feasible if I am okay with staying at C3 for 9 months, but the real problem is that the minute I build up past a few cities, targets become worthless and thus the project is waste of money and space. So for most people it's a no-brainer. But I'm okay with staying at C3 for a year or however long I feel like staying there. Therefore I'd make the money back. But the Return-on-Investment still comes across as terrible, and there is what my generation calls "planned obsolescence" built into PE, eg the targets becoming worthless as you build more cities. Which leaves me torn. Edited May 20, 2021 by Aglet Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 I like it during wars, if my opponents have rolled over or been pinned, it lets me help more of my fellow fighters by spreading out into more wars. But it is certainly a nice to have and by no means a must have project, i think it was the last of the "new" improvements i picked up. Also nice grave dig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglet Guyn Posted May 20, 2021 Share Posted May 20, 2021 Well, you do have your own radio theme song, so I guess I have to consider what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zephyr Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Aglet Green said: Hello. I am really torn about this, about whether to get it. I do agree that for 99% of the player base, this is a bad choice. However, I am looking at it from my own perspective, which is that I am at C3 (three cities) and have 100 meaningless victories and PB already built. So the 100 victories gives me room for it, and for me it would pay for itself by 2022. Perhaps sooner. But the resource cost makes buying this $160,000,000.00 dollars, roughly. That's crazy. Assuming approximately $3 million per raid, that would be 53 extra raids, and with a raid every 2 days, that's 104 days. Call it 3 or 4 months. That's assuming staying at C3 for 4 months. The minute I shoot up to C4 or C5, that total drops to $2 million per raid, 80 extra raids and so 160 days. 5 to 6 months. So it's not worth getting unless I commit to staying at C3 for those 5 or 6 months. In fact, I just looked at my nation. I've made $370 million in 100 battles in 45 days, so that's roughly $3.7 million per battle. If that had been 120 battles, theoretically I might have made... an extra 20%, so that's 37 +37... so that's 74 million more. If allowed to buy this ahead of time, on loan, it might be worth it, but at this point I don't know if it's feasible. Well, it's feasible if I am okay with staying at C3 for 9 months, but the real problem is that the minute I build up past a few cities, targets become worthless and thus the project is waste of money and space. So for most people it's a no-brainer. But I'm okay with staying at C3 for a year or however long I feel like staying there. Therefore I'd make the money back. But the Return-on-Investment still comes across as terrible, and there is what my generation calls "planned obsolescence" built into PE, eg the targets becoming worthless as you build more cities. Which leaves me torn. I was putting away about $25m each day after getting Pirate Economy (that included my own nation income). I was only raiding unaligned inactives, so it was easy work anyone could do. I didn't actually manage to do this consistently though because it was admittedly boring so there were extended periods where I didn't raid at all, and also technical problems with the bot that found the juicy targets (and turns out I'm terrible at picking targets manually). However, assuming your alliance has a bot that can find the juicy targets, I think it's possible to bank $25m a day (maybe even more) at 3 cities with pirate Economy with back to back raids of unaligned inactive nations. At least under ideal circumstances. And because that income seems comparable to early to mid twenty city nations, I think it makes sense to spend some time raiding and saving enough to assure development (combined with alliance grants) straight through to early to mid twenty cities. Just be sure to factor in the huge costly war chest you'll need. Edited May 21, 2021 by Zephyr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aglet Guyn Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Duly noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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