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The Lionising of Fidel Castro

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As you likely know Fidel Castro died which is certainly a notable event. This has caused western leaders of Liberal Democracies to lionise Fidel Castro as a great leader due to X, Y, and Z. Trump going against the grain as he does called him a brutal dictator whose legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.

 

Some people on the left have also lionised him, some even calling the man who prosecuted gays, locked up political opponents, and killed people through firing squad without trial, as a "champion of social justice". What are people's thoughts on all this? Personally I think there is no getting around that he was a bad man and while he may have good traits you might say, the lionising that has gone on is utterly ridiculous. 

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It only goes to show that these "liberal democrats" are nothing more than thinly veiled Marxists who seek to subvert any and all instances of human liberty.  The biggest problem with the enemy is not that they are Communists(whom most people hate) but the fact that they are too cowardly to reveal their true colors and say what they are.  Instead they hide behind meaningless words like "equality", "tolerance", and "social justice".  I can't help but not be surprised at the blatant hypocrisy and irony of the recent turn of events, since they have showed time and time again that they are intellectually inconsistent.  

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If I recall correctly the only leader in the west who stated that he was a great leader was the Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau (feel free to prove me wrong on that) and I think that's mostly due to his family ties with him. Either way, I personally disliked Castro a lot and feel that the world is much better off with him dead. We can only hope that Raúl Castro meets the same fate soon for Cuba to truly be liberated from their corrupt and harsh rule.

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If I recall correctly the only leader in the west who stated that he was a great leader was the Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau (feel free to prove me wrong on that) and I think that's mostly due to his family ties with him. Either way, I personally disliked Castro a lot and feel that the world is much better off with him dead. We can only hope that Raúl Castro meets the same fate soon for Cuba to truly be liberated from their corrupt and harsh rule.

 

Obama and Corbyn are two off the top of my head who also did.

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A lot of people here hates Castro because his a communist dictator (but its mostly communist not dictator that he is being hated for). Lets be honest, we hate communists/leftists but we supported PKK and the leftist/marxist kurds against ISIS or Turkey. Isn't it hypocritical that we condemn western liberals for praising Castro but we praise leftists that is the enemy of our enemy. Anyway about the future of Cuba I wish the country doesn't go the path of Yugoslavia which a strong leader(Fidel Castro or Raul Castro because he is 85 years old/Josip Broz Tito) be replaced by a incompetent or weak leader(not praising the Castros tho).

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A lot of people here hates Castro because his a communist dictator (but its mostly communist not dictator that he is being hated for). Lets be honest, we hate communists/leftists but we supported PKK and the leftist/marxist kurds against ISIS or Turkey. Isn't it hypocritical that we condemn western liberals for praising Castro but we praise leftists that is the enemy of our enemy. Anyway about the future of Cuba I wish the country doesn't go the path of Yugoslavia which a strong leader(Fidel Castro or Raul Castro because he is 85 years old/Josip Broz Tito) be replaced by a incompetent or weak leader(not praising the Castros tho).

The Castros are recognized for their actions spanning over half a Century and a direct result and threat to American foreign policies. Also to note Cuba is much closer geographically and more familiar publicly than Kurdish citizens among the United States population. Is it any wonder why the PKK, a small contingent in the large void known as the Middle East and who is fighting off a direct threat to the United States and its allies, be given credit and a positive light? If we look back at the Mujaheddin of Afghanistan back during the Cold War they too were praised, until they became Al Qaeda. Sure they are Marxist in ideology but they did not park nukes in our back yard. Is American involvement or support perfect? Hellz no. However, it is not horrible in most cases either and has been beneficial to many over the last Century.

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As you likely know Fidel Castro died which is certainly a notable event. This has caused western leaders of Liberal Democracies to lionise Fidel Castro as a great leader due to X, Y, and Z. Trump going against the grain as he does called him a brutal dictator whose legacy is one of firing squads, theft, unimaginable suffering, poverty and the denial of fundamental human rights.

 

Some people on the left have also lionised him, some even calling the man who prosecuted gays, locked up political opponents, and killed people through firing squad without trial, as a "champion of social justice". What are people's thoughts on all this? Personally I think there is no getting around that he was a bad man and while he may have good traits you might say, the lionising that has gone on is utterly ridiculous. 

What?  All I heard was he was dead, but that not much would change by his mere death since he'd been out of power for some time.  I saw no lionization in America.  In the UK maybe, but the ROTW has a very different view of Cuba then Americans do.

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Obama and Corbyn are two off the top of my head who also did.

Denounce Corbyn. 

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Cuba executed way fewer people per capita than the USA has, and the US also arrested gays and locked up political opponents (or I guess people are just going to forget the whole Red Scare?).  I'm not saying Castro was a saint, but American have literally no leg to stand on to criticize him for anything.

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Cuba executed way fewer people per capita than the USA has, and the US also arrested gays and locked up political opponents (or I guess people are just going to forget the whole Red Scare?).  I'm not saying Castro was a saint, but American have literally no leg to stand on to criticize him for anything.

This is kind of, but not exactly the lionizing I think Roz was talking about. The use of Whataboutism/tu quoue in this context.

 

"Cuba was bad sure, but the US was worse" is a lazy cop out and prime example of things the left needs to stop doing. You can still oppose the Red scare, imprisonment of Gays ect...while still condemning Castro's regime. They aren't mutually exclusive and worst of all the implication is that Americans criticizing Castro are all somehow ok with or are trying to sidestep the bad America did. I consider myself fairly left leaning on most issues, but I'm not going to try and whitewash even in the slightest Castro's actions just because of something America did. Especially when I oppose all of the stated objections in American usage.

 

It's frankly been nothing but a disappointment to me to see so many progressives in the US and abroad try to sidestep Castro's misdeeds because "BUT WHATABOUT AMERICA". 

 

Nothing against you personally speaking, just an observation after a few days.

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The invocation of "whataboutism" is itself a cop out in avoiding discussing hypocrisy.  If the people criticizing Castro had clean hands then sure, you could say there's no hyprocrisy, but you have literal mass murderers like Rumsfeld criticizing Castro I have to basically stop them right there and tell them to literally go !@#$ themselves.

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The invocation of "whataboutism" is itself a cop out in avoiding discussing hypocrisy.  If the people criticizing Castro had clean hands then sure, you could say there's no hyprocrisy, but you have literal mass murderers like Rumsfeld criticizing Castro I have to basically stop them right there and tell them to literally go [email protected]#$ themselves.

I have a hard time invoking Rumsfeld as an equal in comparison to a Dictator for life of an overthrown nation. Rumsfeld was only one pawn in a stupid game the US has played for decades whereas Castro was one who used to say a joke during a bad crop season that his people were "not starving but only had a great thirst" as he told everyone to drink water while they starved.

Edited by The King in Yellow

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Which is all fine and good but Rumsfeld wasn't mentioned. Americans were.

 

"Americans like X, Y and Z have no leg to stand on while criticizing Castro" is a hell of a lot different than "Americans have no leg to stand on while criticizing Castro"

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I have a hard time invoking Rumsfeld as an equal in comparison to a Dictator for life of an overthrown nation. Rumsfeld was only one pawn in a stupid game the US has played for decades whereas Castro was one who used to say a joke during a bad crop season that his people were "not starving but only had a great thirst" as he told everyone to drink water while they starved.

This is often brought up how Cuba is poor and that this is Castro's fault, despite Cuba being poor since slavery ended and a trade embargo by their formerly largest trading partner for 7 decades.

 

If the US embargoed Canada for 7 decades, we would be a lot worse off than Cuba is.

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Credit where credit is due, Castro could play dictator. Early on he made himself seem like a liberal revolutionary and inflated his groups numbers to get aid from America. Then, after taking power, he indirectly offed any threats to his stranglehold on it(like Che Guevara).  When he inevitably got old and sick he was successfully able to transfer power to his brother without getting couped by underlings fearful of change and died peacefully in his sleep. A true successful dictator though and though.

 

Who wants to take bets on whether his brother will be as successful?

Edited by Malal
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There's actually people trying to defend an evil brutal man ITT.

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 However, it is not horrible in most cases either and has been beneficial to many over the last Century.

Nah the only one who is benefiting from these is mostly America when it comes to military interventions. However when it comes to economic support its somehow mutually beneficial.

 

 Sure they are Marxist in ideology but they did not park nukes in our back yard.

 

Yugoslavia and Vietnam didn't also park nukes near the US territory or attacked US but they're evil because they're Marxists or commies.

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Nah the only one who is benefiting from these is mostly America when it comes to military interventions. However when it comes to economic support its somehow mutually beneficial.

I was speaking mostly from an economic standpoint. All wars suck.

 

Yugoslavia and Vietnam didn't also park nukes near the US territory or attacked US but they're evil because they're Marxists or commies.

Both conflicts arose from other nations requesting our support. Would you like the United States to remain Isolationist? International Trade would cease, trust me.

 

This is often brought up how Cuba is poor and that this is Castro's fault, despite Cuba being poor since slavery ended and a trade embargo by their formerly largest trading partner for 7 decades.

 

If the US embargoed Canada for 7 decades, we would be a lot worse off than Cuba is.

Cuba's economic state was not what I was inferring to. That in itself was a choice the regime made, and I do not agree with this either, by their refusal to bend into the whims of the CIA. However, Cuba flourished and was economically successful, albeit not a huge global mogul but for the Caribbean it was quite successful before Castro, much more recent than the slave trade.  Suggestion: stop reading Zinn for history.

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Both conflicts arose from other nations requesting our support. Would you like the United States to remain Isolationist? International Trade would cease, trust me.

 

 

 

Not militarily intervening other nations is not isolationism, its called non-intervention. The US can still trade to the world without interfering other nations militarily.

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Not militarily intervening other nations is not isolationism, its called non-intervention. The US can still trade to the world without interfering other nations militarily.

Do a study of how the trade routes work in the Western Pacific, especially in the waters surrounding, Vietnam, New Guinea, Korea, China and Japan.

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capitalism blows, but so does repression, the violation of human rights, poverty, etc. sure, castro was less bad than batista, but he was still a repressive tyrant. if you're a white leftist from the global north who defends castro, you should try living in cuba. see how you like it. do you think your life will be any better than it is now? (spoiler alert: !@#$ no)

 

i'm all for abolishing capitalism, but not if it means we have to give up human rights

 

Do a study of how the trade routes work in the Western Pacific, especially in the waters surrounding, Vietnam, New Guinea, Korea, China and Japan.

why?

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Abolishing Capitalism? Capitalism blows? 

I can just imagine the utopia you have planned, it would turn out so well. 

You can start your journey by moving to the nation with the least capitalism. 

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