attacks in belgium

[Hereno]

Taiwan is part of the west? I'm talking western Europe.

 

Of course, I agree fully. You say that there about how it can be left or right but you seem to have already condemned us all to being right wingers. Many nationalists are opposed to the same groups you are, not all of us are the caricature from the 1940s. 

 

Well I'm against a lot of things ultimately. Though laissez-faire capitalism obviously isn't anything I support. 

 

Then I will try to explain. I do not of course mean there is an actual on paper alliance, or some unspoken agreement, of course not. The left and the right support many of the same things, for different reasons perhaps, but they support the same elements all the same. I mentioned some of them already, and I am of course completely against them so to me it is having an enemy on the right and an enemy on the left. 

 

america is not part of western europe. generally speaking when people talk about "the west" they're talking about what used to be considered the "first world", including western and central europe, the united states, japan, taiwan, south korea, australia, and other highly developed nations highly influenced by western european culture.

 

i mean you and i both support killing isis but that hardly makes us political allies in and of itself. enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

[Rozalia]

america is not part of western europe. generally speaking when people talk about "the west" they're talking about what used to be considered the "first world", including western and central europe, the united states, japan, taiwan, south korea, australia, and other highly developed nations highly influenced by western european culture.

 

i mean you and i both support killing isis but that hardly makes us political allies in and of itself. enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend.

 

That wasn't what I was going for no sorry. I was talking simply western Europe. I am aware of the first (US Sphere), second (Soviet/Russia Sphere), and third (free game) world dynamic yes.

 

True. I suppose you could say is to me, an "extremist" politically if you will seeing other "extremists" support such elements is most odd. They'll never give you the world you want (additionally such elements only damage it) so going along with it and supporting such elements only furthers their own designs. I'll apologise on the matter out of respect, but still I feel half of what you said of the four mentioned groups is incorrect. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rozalia

[Clarke]

I'm no expert of how the west should be used but using it to reference the south and the east is dodgy for me not that it isn't correct. When I talk about the west in the current day I mean the west. The "west" nations in the east generally don't have a lot of the problems faced by Europe and well neither does the US really.

Meh I guess I should use just Europe anymore but Europe was always west so meh. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Clarke

[Hereno]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Bloc

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world

 

two different articles

 

The Western Bloc or Capitalist Bloc[1] during the Cold War refers to the countries allied with the United States and NATO against the Soviet Union and its allies. The latter were referred to as the Eastern Bloc, a more common term in English than Western Bloc. The governments and press of the Western Bloc were more inclined to refer to themselves as the Free World or the Western world.

 

The term originally had a literal geographic meaning. It contrasted Europe with the linked cultures and civilizations of the Middle East and North Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia and the remote Far East, which early-modern Europeans saw as the East. Today this has little geographic relevance since the concept of the West has been expanded to include the former European colonies in the Americas, Russian Northern Asia, Australia, and New Zealand.[citation needed] In the contemporary cultural meaning, the phrase "Western world" includes Europe, as well as many countries of European colonial origin with substantial European ancestral populations in the Americas and Oceania.[8]

i'm aware that there's a [citation needed] in the one, but

[Linus Vulp]

Have you seen many gay Muslims at school? In the neighborhood? 

I have seen one a few weeks ago. And I those I know in private dont have a problem with gay people.

[Rozalia]

 

I have seen one a few weeks ago. And I those I know in private dont have a problem with gay people.

 

In private huh. Even though you could literally say anything you still only stretch it towards "in private". Well of course some in private believe such things, I've said as much, I've met such people myself. Many don't even believe any of that garbage pedaled to them since birth, doesn't mean they won't go through with due to fear at the end of the day. However how many can be open with it? In my experience it's because of "parents" but thats bull, the parents are a part of it but there is another reason. 

[Linus Vulp]

 

 

In private huh. Even though you could literally say anything you still only stretch it towards "in private". Well of course some in private believe such things, I've said as much, I've met such people myself. Many don't even believe any of that garbage pedaled to them since birth, doesn't mean they won't go through with due to fear at the end of the day. However how many can be open with it? In my experience it's because of "parents" but thats bull, the parents are a part of it but there is another reason. 

 

Sorry for that misunderstanding, i didnt mean they just say that in private, i mean those i know better and they would say that in public and the dont make a secret out of those things.

[Spite]

I love it how the very same people who attack muslims for being illiberal attack the West for being too liberal. Fact is that ultraconservatives just hark back to some fantasy idealist world which never existed. It's not a new thing either they've been doing it for generations.

 

Before I went to bed last night someone (Clark?) asked me what good things islam has given the West. Now islam is a faith, but if you're asking what muslims have given the West...

 

Most of our scientific knowledge pre-renaissance

All our records of Greek classical texts

Algebra, chemistry, trigonometry

Most of our early understanding of astronomy

Actual medicine - as opposed to leaches and shit

Our understanding of light and physics

A whole bunch of artistic and musical traditions

The goddamn sextant

Distillation - thanks Arabs!

Water clocks

Maps of the vast majority of the world outside of Europe

Sugar refining

Paper manufacture

Secularism - yes, Google Averroism

 

Then if we're talking modern contributions, I'm sure everyone appreciates the £31bn muslims add to the UK economy every year. Or the 400k muslim soldiers who fought for the UK in ww1. I could go on all day about the food, and let's face it most people have Indian food at least a couple times a month unless they're 70.

[Rozalia]

Sorry for that misunderstanding, i didnt mean they just say that in private, i mean those i know better and they would say that in public and the dont make a secret out of those things.

 

Now I know you're joshing me but hey, perhaps you hit some very tolerant enclave that gives hugs and kisses when Muslims leave the faith too. Don't tell other Muslims about them though, careful now. 

 

Honestly I'm very much for gay men's rights, them having marriage was a no brainer for me though I crisise those activists who are hypocrites and are against other similar causes. Terrible to imagine all that going away due to Islam... just terrible.

 

I love it how the very same people who attack muslims for being illiberal attack the West for being too liberal. Fact is that ultraconservatives just hark back to some fantasy idealist world which never existed. It's not a new thing either they've been doing it for generations.

 

Then if we're talking modern contributions, I'm sure everyone appreciates the £31bn muslims add to the UK economy every year. Or the 400k muslim soldiers who fought for the UK in ww1. I could go on all day about the food, and let's face it most people have Indian food at least a couple times a month unless they're 70.

 

I don't see anything funny there. I'm very open, very free, more so than most but my nationalism keeps such things in check, I know who deserves tolerance and who doesn't, and believe me there are a lot of people who deserve no such thing. Liberals however don't have any moderation, they are accepting to the point of suicide. A million people we have no idea who they are, are mostly men, will increase crime, have mad views, all when we're already struggling? Let them all in. Lowering birthrates while such people breed like rabbits? How nice they think it and when told of what is festering they decry it as racist or whatever else. You even have gay people marching for tolerance for Muslims, utter fools who'd find themselves killed if said Muslims had power. Unchecked Liberalism is like a gun to the head, many such people even talk of "atoning"... like I said, suicidal. 

 

No I don't care about the £31 billion, why do your type always go to such figures to defend yourselves? There are effects not shown on a stat sheet. Culture, country, and people don't have a price tag. Putting us on the path of conflict, intolerance, and hatred is not worth £31 billion or any other number. There are more important things at stake. Such people do not integrate, are intolerant and that will not change and their populations will increase... all progress made is at risk of being lost if such vile people ever got control. The world is already so ugly, so vile, and to have it go back even further is unacceptable.

 

What does WW1 matter in this? They didn't fight out of the goodness of their heart like you seem to be making out you know. Something called the British Empire.

 

You know my parents actually refer to all Muslims (Arabs) as Indians . Don't like it, neither do I you using Indian food to defend Muslims, seems on that same wave length. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rozalia

[Clarke]

I love it how the very same people who attack muslims for being illiberal attack the West for being too liberal. Fact is that ultraconservatives just hark back to some fantasy idealist world which never existed. It's not a new thing either they've been doing it for generations.

 

Before I went to bed last night someone (Clark?) asked me what good things islam has given the West. Now islam is a faith, but if you're asking what muslims have given the West...

 

Most of our scientific knowledge pre-renaissance

All our records of Greek classical texts

Algebra, chemistry, trigonometry

Most of our early understanding of astronomy

Actual medicine - as opposed to leaches and shit

Our understanding of light and physics

A whole bunch of artistic and musical traditions

The goddamn sextant

Distillation - thanks Arabs!

Water clocks

Maps of the vast majority of the world outside of Europe

Sugar refining

Paper manufacture

Secularism - yes, Google Averroism

 

Then if we're talking modern contributions, I'm sure everyone appreciates the £31bn muslims add to the UK economy every year. Or the 400k muslim soldiers who fought for the UK in ww1. I could go on all day about the food, and let's face it most people have Indian food at least a couple times a month unless they're 70.

 

A lot of those things they stole from other civilizations at the time that got arabwashed but that's not the context we were talking in.

It's like saying why we need the Norse and saying they make good boats or why we need the Chinese and saying well they gave us Gunpower and Paper. 

 

 

What's the best of Islam?

 

I'm talking about here and now when it is actually relevant.

They tried to invade Europe centuries ago so we already got that culture mixing. 

Economy is meaningless and not the point but alternatively you could import a different group that works far harder and comes without all the baggage that costs the tax payer a lot of money and doesn't make our population significantly unsafe. I don't think we should gave them the entire market on Indian food. 

 

But yeah as I thought, the worse people to bring in as they come with a terrible amount of baggage. 

[Rozalia]

A lot of those things they stole from other civilizations at the time that got arabwashed but that's not the context we were talking in.

It's like saying why we need the Norse and saying they make good boats or why we need the Chinese and saying well they gave us Gunpower and Paper. 

 

 

I'm talking about here and now when it is actually relevant.

They tried to invade Europe centuries ago so we already got that culture mixing. 

Economy is meaningless and not the point but alternatively you could import a different group that works far harder and comes without all the baggage that costs the tax payer a lot of money and doesn't make our population significantly unsafe. I don't think we should gave them the entire market on Indian food. 

 

But yeah as I thought, the worse people to bring in as they come with a terrible amount of baggage. 

 

Very true. If you're importing people you can bring in far better yet they don't... I've heard it said they want such people to have such "baggage" as you put it on purpose. Makes you wonder if that is true, I mean they are as I said suicidal. 

[Spite]

"these people"

"breeding like rabbits"

 

Thirty years you'd be protesting against gay equality. It's exactly the same ultraconservative borderline fascistic views that people have always spouted. I honestly can't debate with people who hold such evil views. There's a difference between being against immigration and whatever you are.

[Rozalia]

"these people"

"breeding like rabbits"

 

Thirty years you'd be protesting against gay equality. It's exactly the same ultraconservative borderline fascistic views that people have always spouted. I honestly can't debate with people who hold such evil views. There's a difference between being against immigration and whatever you are.

 

Oh no, I used a metaphor, how abhorrent. 

 

That so? Actually I am for gay equality, support their marriage rights 100%. Support transgenders 100% too. Support polygamists/polyandrists 100% also. Among many other things deemed unacceptable such euthanasia. I am also against the rich's excess/abuse and religion... to call me an ultraconservative is madness, the world is not free enough for me not the other way round. 

 

However the mistake people make is they think they cannot be liberal if they are against this suicide I talked about before, that they would contradict themselves. However adopt a nationalistic mindset and there is no contradiction. 

[Clarke]

"these people"

"breeding like rabbits"

 

Thirty years you'd be protesting against gay equality. It's exactly the same ultraconservative borderline fascistic views that people have always spouted. I honestly can't debate with people who hold such evil views. There's a difference between being against immigration and whatever you are.

 

Except the gay people weren't exactly dangerous, think of all those gay bombings. To say it is the same is an insult to gay people. 

I'm for immigration just not bad immigration. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Clarke

[Spite]

Oh no, I used a metaphor, how abhorrent.

 

That so? Actually I am for gay equality, support their marriage rights 100%. Support transgenders 100% too. Support polygamists/polyandrists 100% also. Among many other things deemed unacceptable such euthanasia. I am also against the rich's excess/abuse and religion... to call me an ultraconservative is madness, the world is not free enough for me not the other way round.

 

However the mistake people make is they think they cannot be liberal if they are against this suicide I talked about before, that they would contradict themselves. However adopt a nationalistic mindset and there is no contradiction.

So you're a liberal who hates liberalism.

 

And you hate muslims for attacking Western liberal values, but you hate Western liberal values for being accepting towards muslims.

[Spite]

Except the gay people weren't exactly dangerous, think of all those gay bombings. To say it is the same is an insult to gay people.

I'm for immigration just not bad immigration.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Spite

[Clarke]

So you're a liberal who hates liberalism.

 

And you hate muslims for attacking Western liberal values, but you hate Western liberal values for being accepting towards muslims.

If liberal values allows an incompatible set of values to exist in close proximity some liberals are indeed going to take issue with liberals not doing more to stop the spread of the anti liberal values that are quietly infecting us and bringing us to a regressive state.

It reminds me of story plots where members of a group are sick of the group for being weak and ineffective. 

 

As for bad immigration, you're the only one talking about colors. There is plenty of good migrant nations that aren't white and Muslim. 

It seem a bit racist anyway for assuming bad migration is colored migration. 

[Spite]

So what countries that aren't white make your list for "good" migration.

 

Liberals who don't like other Liberals for being liberal about people who don't like Liberals which can hurt Liberals. I'm waiting for the punchline. The argument is literally full of holes.

 

I mean take Britain. We have 2.7m muslims. In our history, 53 people have been killed by six muslim terrorists.

 

Firstly you're saying let's condemn 2.7m people because of the actions of six. Which is stupid. But let's go further.

 

Of those six, none of them were immigrants from muslim countries. So stopping immigration would not have made any difference. Let's go further.

 

Of those six, three were converts and not even born muslims. They were born Christians and converted at a later time.

 

Of the three muslims who were born muslim, one of them was a genuine terrorist of the first order, who planned the London bombings. The other two were teenagers he groomed at a weekly community group.

 

Let's go one step further. People say that radical Conservative islam is the cause. None of these people were raised in radical households. Of the two groomed teenagers mentioned above, one had a girlfriend (who yes, he had sex with) and the other had a drinking problem. They were hardly ultra Conservative. Even the ringleader had a pretty poor understanding of Islam by all accounts.

 

So basically there is no solid link with immigration, no link with certain countries, no link with Conservative islam.

 

So all the bullshit we see constantly on these forums about that is just that - bullshit. Stopping immigration won't stop Islamic terrorism, and unless you're willing to put almost 3m people in concentration camps because of the actions of a few scattered radicals, there is no "solution" to the Muslim "problem".

[Clarke]

Terrorism is just the tip of the ice berg of problems.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Clarke

[Rozalia]

So you're a liberal who hates liberalism.

 

And you hate muslims for attacking Western liberal values, but you hate Western liberal values for being accepting towards muslims.

 

I already explained that to you, there is no contradiction like you're trying to frame it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_nationalism Not all Nationalism has to be constricting.

 

Yes, they're weak and surrendering us to what is hostile to us and seeks to destroy everything we have managed to claw for ourselves. I seek even further advancements myself but they would instead just sacrifice us all in the name of guff like multiculturalism. Either those insane loonies will take over and set us back, or when it gets to the boiling point we will be saved but go back regardless... all that progress knocked back because some damn xenophile liberals couldn't help themselves supporting things even when they were clear as day to be complete insanity and irrational. 

 

Can you really not comprehend there are people that aren't conservatives, that don't hate the poor, that don't hate gays, that don't hate transsexuals, and so on... who despise what has been peddled here with immigration, multiculturalism, and so forth? 

 

So what countries that aren't white make your list for "good" migration.

 

Liberals who don't like other Liberals for being liberal about people who don't like Liberals which can hurt Liberals. I'm waiting for the punchline. The argument is literally full of holes.

 

I mean take Britain. We have 2.7m muslims. In our history, 53 people have been killed by six muslim terrorists.

 

Firstly you're saying let's condemn 2.7m people because of the actions of six. Which is stupid. But let's go further.

 

Of those six, none of them were immigrants from muslim countries. So stopping immigration would not have made any difference. Let's go further.

 

Of those six, three were converts and not even born muslims. They were born Christians and converted at a later time.

 

Of the three muslims who were born muslim, one of them was a genuine terrorist of the first order, who planned the London bombings. The other two were teenagers he groomed at a weekly community group.

 

Let's go one step further. People say that radical Conservative islam is the cause. None of these people were raised in radical households. Of the two groomed teenagers mentioned above, one had a girlfriend (who yes, he had sex with) and the other had a drinking problem. They were hardly ultra Conservative. Even the ringleader had a pretty poor understanding of Islam by all accounts.

 

So basically there is no solid link with immigration, no link with certain countries, no link with Conservative islam.

 

So all the bullshit we see constantly on these forums about that is just that - bullshit. Stopping immigration won't stop Islamic terrorism, and unless you're willing to put almost 3m people in concentration camps because of the actions of a few scattered radicals, there is no "solution" to the Muslim "problem".

 

No mention of the rape gang I see and why they ran rampant, nor of those who have tried but failed, nor those who have left and are fighting for ISIS. No mention of what is going on in other European countries like Sweden either.

 

I've already put forward my solution, it's all quite fair and makes perfect sense. 

 

In regards to behaviour: http://i.imgur.com/L6lce69.jpg

 

They are a culture, Muslim above being British. Once in high enough numbers they will revolt and take us out... any culture ultimately would do this and that cannot be allowed. Their culture must be destroyed and if they cannot be made to join the rest of us then they can leave. Cultural Homogeneity is the only path, everything else leads to conflict. And no I don't agree with Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or English Nationalism either, I believe in a one people. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rozalia

[Spite]

So what do you suggest for the 7.2 million foreign born UK residents and the millions more who are Hindu or muslim but born here? We put them in compulsory re-education camps? Gas them?

 

So there was a pedo ring with muslims running it. There was one with Jimmy Savile running it, and I bet most of the pedophiles and rapists are white. How many of the Muslim pedophiles were immigrants and how many were born here. How would stopping all immigration affect this?

[Rozalia]

So what do you suggest for the 7.2 million foreign born UK residents and the millions more who are Hindu or muslim but born here? We put them in compulsory re-education camps? Gas them?

 

So there was a pedo ring with muslims running it. There was one with Jimmy Savile running it, and I bet most of the pedophiles and rapists are white. How many of the Muslim pedophiles were immigrants and how many were born here. How would stopping all immigration affect this?

 

Assuming a strong nationalistic government is in charge it's quite simple. For those who aren't of your country you can just expulse the whole group if so needed, not anything that hasn't been done before though obviously you can do other things instead. For citizens themselves it's trickier but doable. Gather such people and make them pledge allegiance to their country above God, make them follow a reformed version of Islam (Standard Islam outlawed), and also break up the ghettos and bring in maximum quotas in cities so they don't all gather together. If they refuse of course then they can leave naturally.

 

It's harsh but if those who caused such a mess had put the brakes on immigration letting in much less, and then made sure such people integrated then drastic solutions wouldn't be needed.

I have already detailed such things. Constantly calling me a Nazi doesn't mean anything, your kind (oh no, being abhorrent again) has devalued such words heavily anyway. 

 

Ah but it ain't simply 6 men like you tried to make out is it. You accuse of dishonesty but you're the most dishonest here. 

It's not that they were simply Muslim but the weakness that allowed it to continue and to not speak out against it. Nothing I haven't read about before, I've read about it regarding apostates too. The police is fearful of being labeled racist so tell the victim to "not provoke" the aggressors or, and this is the best one, to move far away from the Muslims. They won't actually stamp out the problem of course. 

 

You looked at Sweden? Had they you know, not taken in such people they wouldn't be the rape capital of Europe... or are you going to join hands with Moreau III, Ibrahim, Abu, and other such folk to state that the Muslim immigrants had nothing to do with it.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rozalia

[Spite]

Yes and I repeated what you said.

 

You're going to tell people where to live, what they can believe, where they can work, ban their culture and beliefs... It is horrific.

[Ikhan]

I love it how the very same people who attack muslims for being illiberal attack the West for being too liberal. Fact is that ultraconservatives just hark back to some fantasy idealist world which never existed. It's not a new thing either they've been doing it for generations.

 

Before I went to bed last night someone (Clark?) asked me what good things islam has given the West. Now islam is a faith, but if you're asking what muslims have given the West...

 

Most of our scientific knowledge pre-renaissance

All our records of Greek classical texts

Algebra, chemistry, trigonometry

Most of our early understanding of astronomy

Actual medicine - as opposed to leaches and shit

Our understanding of light and physics

A whole bunch of artistic and musical traditions

The goddamn sextant

Distillation - thanks Arabs!

Water clocks

Maps of the vast majority of the world outside of Europe

Sugar refining

Paper manufacture

Secularism - yes, Google Averroism

 

Then if we're talking modern contributions, I'm sure everyone appreciates the £31bn muslims add to the UK economy every year. Or the 400k muslim soldiers who fought for the UK in ww1. I could go on all day about the food, and let's face it most people have Indian food at least a couple times a month unless they're 70.

More reasons to dislike Islam...

[Rozalia]

Yes and I repeated what you said.

 

You're going to tell people where to live, what they can believe, where they can work, ban their culture and beliefs... It is horrific.

 

Cultural homogeneity, peace, and ever expanding (rational) liberalism are all worth it. I want them to be part of the national fraternity and there is nothing horrific about that. Their beliefs not only only stops them being a brother or sister to me but they hold vile incompatible views. Only one culture matters which is our own, all the rest existing in their own country is fine, excellent in fact, but not here. 

 

I only want as I said peace, for us to be brothers and sisters united under one nation, be they from whatever religion, gender, sexual orientation, and so on. If they prefer the "Muslim nation" if you will, Islam, as is it exists today then that is regrettable but they can have it very easily and I wouldn't stop them. I only seek the best for them.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Rozalia