Nuke thwarting thwarts all nukes

[Greene]

I started this process with 15 nukes.

 

10 have been espionage away.

 

2 have been fired off.

 

I should have three left.

 

The last to be fired off was blocked, and when I went to try and use a nuke on another target, I found that I had no nukes to fire off. I thought that maybe my math was wrong so I went to work, and when I came home, I went ahead and double checked. Nope, my math is right, and when the nuke was thwarted, not only did that nuke get used up, but the three remaining nukes I had were also removed.

[Stormrideron]

Working as intended.

[Arthur James]

the rests suicide instead of getting killed by shame before the order.

Just joking.

[Alex]

I'll take a look at this, but I would suspect it's something else causing this discrepancy.

[Alex]

Yeah looking at the source code, there's no way this is possible. Either you miscounted, didn't get a notification, or it's something else.

[Dr. Kourin]

Buy Gensokyo brand VDS! Best in the business! We guarantee results!

 

 

 

 

 

[seabasstion]

heres my data taken 1230am game time each day

 

19th: 15 nukes, 3 launched

20th: 14 nukes, 3 launched 

21st: 14 nukes, 3 launched

22nd: 9 nukes, 3 launched

23rd: 7 nukes, 4 launched

24th: 0 nukes, 5 launched

 

so im guessing what happened is

 

sometime 19th: 1 spy done (14 nukes, 1 spy ops)

sometime 21st: 3 spy done (11 nukes, 4 spy ops

22nd 12a - 1230a: 2 spy done (9 nukes, 6 spy ops)

sometime 22nd: 1 launched (8 nukes, 6 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 22nd: 1 spy ops done (7 nukes, 7 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 23rd: 3 spy ops (4 nukes, 10 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 23rd: 1 launched (3 nukes, 10 spy ops, 2 launched)

 

24th 12a-1230a: 3 spy ops (0 nukes, 13 spy ops, 2 launched)

 

it should be easy to tell from your end with the notifications, or sheepys end with his server data, but there would have to be 3 spy ops before 1230am on the 24th for this timeline to make sense. if those attacks dont exist then there was an additional vanishing. note that the 19th-22nd may be +/- 1 on some days but the time from 23rd to the 24th is much more telling since it is a hard figure that had to have happend.

 

there is no other mathematical way to have 7 nukes on the 23rd at 1230am and 0 nukes on the 24th at 1230am without having 3 sabotaged on the 23rd, 24th, and with an additional nuke fired unless there was a glitch somewhere considering you were listed with zero on the 24th at 1230am game time.

 

so yeah...look over your notifications and if you dont see any on the 24th before 1230am then you may have a problem

[Dr. Kourin]

Yeah looking at the source code, there's no way this is possible. Either you miscounted, didn't get a notification, or it's something else.

 

I noticed that in our war timeline, there is no mention that I blocked the nuke with my VDS. Got that from my notifications. Should show up like missile blocks with Iron Dome though.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Dr. Kourin

[Greene]

heres my data taken 1230am game time each day

 

19th: 15 nukes, 3 launched

20th: 14 nukes, 3 launched 

21st: 14 nukes, 3 launched

22nd: 9 nukes, 3 launched

23rd: 7 nukes, 4 launched

24th: 0 nukes, 5 launched

 

so im guessing what happened is

 

sometime 19th: 1 spy done (14 nukes, 1 spy ops)

sometime 21st: 3 spy done (11 nukes, 4 spy ops

22nd 12a - 1230a: 2 spy done (9 nukes, 6 spy ops)

sometime 22nd: 1 launched (8 nukes, 6 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 22nd: 1 spy ops done (7 nukes, 7 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 23rd: 3 spy ops (4 nukes, 10 spy ops, 1 launched)

sometime 23rd: 1 launched (3 nukes, 10 spy ops, 2 launched)

 

24th 12a-1230a: 3 spy ops (0 nukes, 13 spy ops, 2 launched)

 

it should be easy to tell from your end with the notifications, or sheepys end with his server data, but there would have to be 3 spy ops before 1230am on the 24th for this timeline to make sense. if those attacks dont exist then there was an additional vanishing. note that the 19th-22nd may be +/- 1 on some days but the time from 23rd to the 24th is much more telling since it is a hard figure that had to have happend.

 

there is no other mathematical way to have 7 nukes on the 23rd at 1230am and 0 nukes on the 24th at 1230am without having 3 sabotaged on the 23rd, 24th, and with an additional nuke fired unless there was a glitch somewhere considering you were listed with zero on the 24th at 1230am game time.

 

so yeah...look over your notifications and if you dont see any on the 24th before 1230am then you may have a problem

 

Two missiles were spied out, but no nukes were.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Grealind

[Phiney]

Can confirm, all nukes were gone midway through the 23rd around the time of the vds blocking the nuke. Since I was one of the ones doing the spying I was checking nuke numbers regularly. I actually said to my guys grealind must have deleted his nukes.

 

Edit: If you look at grealinds spy ops against him I took out 2 spies instead of a nuke on the 23rd so it was actually 4 nukes that vanished.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Phiney

[seabasstion]

Two missiles were spied out, but no nukes were.

Yeah I would say something very odd is happening here based on these screens and phiney's comments . There is no way to go from 7 to 0 in a single day when you only launched 1

[Dr. Kourin]

You all are clearly missing that this occurred because my VDS is just that amazing. Seven nukes in one blow!

 

 

 

But in all seriousness it does seem like something bugged out.

[Alex]

Yes, something is wrong. I'll double check the espionage ops to make sure they're not somehow destroying more than one, but it's definitely not a result of launching a nuke (it explicitly subtracts 1 from your stockpile.)

[Alex]

While the espionage code was not as explicit (subtracting a variable instead of a 1) the same variable is output as part of the notification message, so it's also highly unlikely that an espionage operation destroyed more than one nuclear weapon. The next possible option may be that somehow the notification was not generated, but that also seems pretty unlikely. I'll keep investigating.

[Alex]

The database indicates that 2 of your nukes was spied away on 2/23, 3 on 2/22, and 2 on 2/21, 2 on 2/20, 1 on 2/19, and 1 on 12/25.

[Alex]

Database also indicates you launched a nuke on 2/22 and 2/23

[Alex]

I don't track whether you decommissioned your own nukes or not. Are you sure that's not a possibility? Maybe tried to reduce upkeep or something, and then forgot?

[Phiney]

It can't be a spy thing, I looked at his nuke count after we had done the 3 spies for the day and it was at 5. I looked then later after he had done the failed nukes attack and he had 0. Either he decommed or it bugged.

[seabasstion]

ooh baby this is getting good. i love data and i love mysteries. i'm getting hot over here 

 

The database indicates that 2 of your nukes was spied away on 2/23, 3 on 2/22, and 2 on 2/21, 2 on 2/20, 1 on 2/19, and 1 on 12/25.

Database also indicates you launched a nuke on 2/22 and 2/23

 

 

 

I don't track whether you decommissioned your own nukes or not. Are you sure that's not a possibility? Maybe tried to reduce upkeep or something, and then forgot?

 

i didn't think about that. one way you could do this indirectly is to check his uranium levels. uranium doesn't get stolen in war anymore right? even if it does it wouldn't be hard to total all of that 

 

if you have uranium levels what you could do is find a timepoint on the 22nd (before the apparent loss) and a timepoint after the apparent loss. for simplicity lets make the timeline:

 

feb 22 noon: start point

feb 24 noon: end point

 

in this very simple timeline there are 2 full days between these timepoints.

 

he has 30 uranium mines and an enrichment. that is 6 per mine = 360 uranium total at end point. there were no uranium trades for this nation at this time.

 

so he should have 360 uranium produced by the end point. but we also need to subtract the uranium used for the nuclear power plants. this will be trickier to estimate since the damage for each cities probably varies around this time significantly, but let's say 2.7 uranium was used per city per day since the amount wont vary by a huge margin relative to the end figure. that equals 81 uranium that is used during this time

 

= a 280 net uranium difference.

 

if he decommissioned 3 nukes that would return 562 additional uranium. 

 

so what you would need to do (presuming you have all this data)

 

1) get the total uranium from start point [1000 uranium for simplicity]

2) calculate net uranium for this start point and end point [+11.66 per turn]

3) subtract any nuke builds let's assume 1 to be safe [-250]

4) subtract any uranium war loot [this is 0 correct?]

 

so in this example: the end uranium level would be 1030. if he is showing 1200+ this is indicative of uranium coming in from an outside source (decom being the most likely source)

 

if the end figure after 4 is a couple hundred less then what his inventory shows, that would indicate there was a decommission at some point.

 

i'm sure in practice this will be a lot murkier to calculate , but 500 additional uranium should be somewhat easy to see by looking in a few spots 

Edited February 26, 2016 by seabasstion

[Prefontaine]

As someone who was watching this closely, his nukes vanished around the time of the VDS block. As not many VDS blocks have ever happened in game, it's a likelyhood that that is the problem.

[Alex]

I don't see any evidence indicating that his uranium levels increased between any turns in the last 8 days. There is a spike on 2/16 but there's a trade at that time for a uranium purchase that fits the amount.

[Alex]

And again there's no reason to believe that launching a nuke (even if thwarted) could cause you to lose all your nukes. Like I said, the code explicitly removes 1 nuclear weapon from your nation, thwarted or not.

[Alex]

Aha, you know what, I think it did find it now, and I think it was related to the VDS. Let me update the code, and give Grealind back some radiation spears.

[Ayayay]

Don't want to sound to pedantic seabasstion, but uranium has never been lootable.