Islamic State VS Western Governments - Who is more morally wrong?

[Robert Ap Ioan]

Islamic State VS Western Governments - Who is more morally wrong?

 

Both sides are morally equal.

 

Western governments in their bombarding of the middle east are acting as a recruiting sergeant for ISIS. ISIS want to be bombed as it reinforces their belief that Muslims are being persecuted by the West. Donald Trump plays straight into their hands, as does anyone who declares all Muslims to be terrorists (I'm looking at you Daily Mail and Murdoch press). The only way to fight ISIS' appeal in the West is to make Muslims feel more welcome and for Muslims to be integrated much more into our communities. That take work from both sides, for proof of this look to Northern Ireland.

 

ISIS are delibrately evil in their actions, committing atrocities which they then boast of, against people who have no means of fighting back (The Yazid have be brought up in this topic already).

 

The west has been evil through neglect and foolishness, ISIS through deliberate fault. The moral coin has two sides.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

So targeting Islamic State Militants are civilians now, lol?

 

Islamic State controls vast territory were 10 million civilians live and they don't move like a conventional army so when you say "targeting Islamic State fighters" you're really talking about killing civilians and destroying vital infrastructure like roads, water facilitates, electricity needed by the civilian population. 

 

 

I'm sorry, but you can't compare Afghanistan to Iraq & Syria.

 

You can compare it to Iraq where Western jets are again raining bombs on Sunni Civilians whilst Sunni Insurgents are trying to overthrow a western backed puppet government. Syria is very similar except it's a Russian backed government and the puppet leader is more bloodthirsty than Hitler in his prime.  

 

And as for those statements considering "for democracy" this is 2016, we're not in 2003 or 2001 when Bush the fool invaded both Iraq and Afghanistan causing many unneeded deaths

 

So what comes after IS (assuming it can be defeated)? You don't bomb for the sake of bombing; you have to have a strategy. Something has to fill that space and I'm assuming it'll be another soon-to-fail western puppet not-so-democratic genocidal Shia Government that will massacre the Sunnis and create an entity much more terrifying than IS. RINSE & REPEAT.

 

 

Oh, and let's not forget the cowards that used the citizens of Ramadi as body-shields. (cough ISIS COUGH)

 

You should stop relying so heavily on the mainstream media. (cough PSYOP COUGH)

[Kyubnyan]

Islamic State controls vast territory were 10 million civilians live and they don't move like a conventional army so when you say "targeting Islamic State fighters" you're really talking about killing civilians and destroying vital infrastructure like roads, water facilitates, electricity needed by the civilian population. 

Breaking news: War has adverse consequences.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I notice that a lot of people get extremely emotional over "beheading" in particular, but how many realise that France was founded on the beheading of tens of thousands of people... that they invented the Guillotine simply due to the fact that they could not behead people fast enough? 

 

Were the beheading of all those people justified because it was done in the name of "Liberté, égalité, and fraternité" as opposed to Sharia Law?

 

If Islamic State remains and the same length of time passes.... will there actions (which is considerably less) be forgiven and forgotten?

 

You do realise that the nation of France had been around for a long time before the beheadings began right? ISIS was doing the beheadings from the beginning trying to form a new state.

[Dimitri Valko]

Oh, great. Ibrahim's back... And right when I was ready to quit the forums. What a shocker.

 

Both sides are "morally wrong", obviously, with IS being on the more extreme and primitive side of the scale, beheading and shooting people who don't share their opinion.

[Nadir Aminu]

Oh, great. Ibrahim's back... And right when I was ready to quit the forums. What a shocker.

 

Both sides are "morally wrong", obviously, with IS being on the more extreme and primitive side of the scale, beheading and shooting people who don't share their opinion.

I'm not supporting them, but at least they accept you have different opinions, unlike western govt that tries to brainwash you. I would rather be dead than brainwashed.

[Captain_Vietnam]

isis have like old islam and murder christians in area.

 

islam was built on war and has killed many people!

 

all isis is. is islam in pure form!

[Captain_Vietnam]

Daesh literally is attempting to commit genocide upon any who don't subscribe to their form of Sunni Islam.

The West doesn't brainwash. I don't think you have any experience with the Western education system. The only "brainwashing" done is liberal hippy bullshit that tells you to keep an open mind and listen to other opinions.

So no. The Islamic State is terrible.

Hell, they're so terrible even North Korea calls them fanatics.

liberalism is virus. liberalism brainwash people with marxist nonsense of satan to turn people to athiesm and islam from christ!

 

liberals want america to be like isis as liberals support islamifaction! 

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

isis have like old islam and murder christians in area.

 

islam was built on war and has killed many people!

 

all isis is. is islam in pure form!

 

There are Christians living freely in IS territory, they just have to pay Jizya tax which is similar to Zakat tax collected from Muslims.

 

I think i seen a video on youtube... let me see if i can find it.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

I couldn't find the video but i did find this....

 

 

America may soon be paying Jizya to another Caliphate if it can't win this war. 

[Nadir Aminu]

I couldn't find the video but i did find this....

 

 

America may soon be paying Jizya to another Caliphate if it can't win this war.

Is it this:

 

 

Around the fourth minute it mentions Christians.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Vladimir Zhogin

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Is it this:

 

 

No and many of the Christians that initially fled actually returned back to their homes after the Christians who didn't flee informed them about how they were living and that they weren't being killed. They even have a separate court for Christians where they are judged according to the bible in personal matter and they can eat pork/ drink alcohol in their church and at home (just not outside). Only the male above the age of puberty are taxed (small amount annually) and are exempt from compulsive military service (Muslims are not exempt).

[Arthur Wellington]

The morals of the western countries, so very narrowly and ignorant brought down to the us, uk and france allow you Ibrahim to talk right the wrongs of daesh. Daesh would not allow the same. In this insanely limited thought that do not deserve the name discussion, that means 'the west' is morally more right.

 

Your historical arguments are flawed, one cannot use history to compare current events, not as a negative nor as a positive argument. One can use history to explain current events. For example how daesh is a reaction to the downfall of the middleeast.

[Captain_Vietnam]

americans murdered countless vietmanese men woman and even children

 

america fund isreal to commit genocide

 

america have killed millons through actions. count up middle east, world war 2 and 1. coldwar with vietnam and others. america are worse then both hitler and isis.

 

george bush should strand trial for war crimes

[Captain_Vietnam]

No?

- removed for rule break -

Edited January 5, 2016 by Four

[Sailor Jerry]

- removed for rule break -

So Palestinians don't kill people?

The North Vietnamese didn't kill Americans or their southern neighbors? 

Germany didn't bomb other countries and Japan didn't bomb the U.S. in WWII?

People in the middle east didn't kill people from other countries before George Bush was even in offiice?

 

Nice try Troll!!!!!

 

 

EDIT:  Frickin' spelling

Edited January 5, 2016 by Four

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

I personally know Assyrian Christians who have had their entire villages slaughtered with their churches destroyed.

 

Sure you do. As well as an Eskimo in Alaska who's pet penguin died.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

So Palestinians don't kill people?

The North Vietnamese didn't kill Americans or their southern neighbors? 

Germany didn't bomb other countries and Japan didn't bomb the U.S. in WWII?

People in the middle east didn't kill people from other countries before George Bush was even in offiice?

 

Nice try Troll!!!!!

 

 

EDIT:  Frickin' spelling

 

If a toddler punches you in the stomach you can break out a chainsaw and cut him/her limb from limb? 

 

Logic.

[Captain_Vietnam]

Not denying that. Saying George Bush shouldn't be put on trial for war crimes.

Are you defending Nazi Germany?

And last time I checked communism has killed over 100 million people... which is more than all those lost in all of the wars America has been involved in combined.

so bush can kill people and not be put on trial? why? 

blatant strawman. 

id like to see more evidence on that. 

 

this is good article on america : http://www.sott.net/article/273517-Study-US-regime-has-killed-20-30-million-people-since-World-War-Two

[Kyubnyan]

If a toddler punches you in the stomach you can break out a chainsaw and cut him/her limb from limb? 

 

Logic. 

Nazi Germany = harmless toddler?

 

Logic.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

If a toddler punches you in the stomach you can break out a chainsaw and cut him/her limb from limb? 

 

Logic.

Do you ever stop and think how stupid your posts are? I know that I am not the most verbose on the forums, Kyubey's response proves my point, but at least I am not trying to defend the indefensible. I hope you enjoy reading what you have posted in a few years time, hindsight is a most unpleasant thing when you read you own words.

 

Many questions have been asked of you in this thread, how many have you answered properly? None as far as I can see.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Nazi Germany = harmless toddler?

 

Logic.

 

Nit picking.

 

Captain_vietnam is seldom ever 100% accurate in his posts. 

Edited January 4, 2016 by Ibrahim

[Nadir Aminu]

Well, this thread is going to end the way I expect it to.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Do you ever stop and think how stupid your posts are? I know that I am not the most verbose on the forums, Kyubey's response proves my point, but at least I am not trying to defend the indefensible. I hope you enjoy reading what you have posted in a few years time, hindsight is a most unpleasant thing when you read you own words.

 

Many questions have been asked of you in this thread, how many have you answered properly? None as far as I can see.

I'm not a teacher and you are not my student's.

 

I will answer what i choose to answer and you're just going to have to deal with it. 

[Kyubnyan]

Nit picking.

 

Captain_vietnam is seldom ever 100% accurate in his posts. 

I'll take a page out of your book and point out the obvious red herring fallacy. 

"Ooops, things aren't going in my favor, time to call out the person who is even more inept then I am."