Does P&W thinks gun controls work?

[Hereno]

you're arguing the point about the USSR on a technicality, and being a semi-automatic rifle does not in and of itself define an "assault rifle". the definition depends on arbitrary features, and merely repeating my confidence in my answers at the end does not make you correct

[Robert Ap Ioan]

In a free country there is no requirement to show 'need' to exercise a right.

"Any "right" of a man that infringes on that of another man is not a right at all."

Do you have a reason to own a TV? A Vehicle? A McDonalds cheeseburger? 

Do you actually have a reason to own half the shit you own or do you just own it because you like it?

Define a legitimate reason.

I don't own a TV and I don't like cheeseburgers!

 

I own a car because it would take me an awful long time to get around the country, it isn't something I have a right to. Most of the things I own have a purpose that makes my life easier. But here is my point I don't demand that I am able to buy a firearm because it is my right. I know that under UK modern law it isn't since the law has been amended since 1689, surely the fact that Americans treat the 2nd Amendment as unchangeable is more than slightly ironic? Surely the world has changed since then, we don't use flintlocks for the majority of our weaponry. Come on folks, when people are needlessly dying something needs to change.

 

Firearms "rights" are infringing on the right of people to live, that is a right that has more power the the right to supposedly "defend" yourself, most gun shots by criminals are fatal and unexpected and unable to be defended against.

 

What Bundy militia? The Oath Keepers? That isn't a Bundy thing. 

I think Obamas actions on gun violence are absolutely irrelevant and I will ignore them because that's actually how much they won't do anything.

As for the actions of the Oath Keepers and Bundy crowd, I have mixed feelings One thing I don't take into consideration here is the racist views of Bundy. Such things should not impact a persons opinions regarding the actual legal matter.

It saddens me that when Obama actually tries to reduce deaths in the USA he is slammed for it. What is the man supposed to do? I have said it before and I will say it again, it is much harder to kill someone when guns are not involved. How many young children in the US are inadvertently murderers? Compare this with Europe and we see an interesting correlation. I am no expert on the US, I have friends who live out there and so I find it interesting and I find some of what y'all post here baffling.

 

Sorry if this post is rambling,

[Thalmor]

There are roughly 32,000 deaths a year in the US that are caused from gun violence (a number that is going down, by the way). These numbers are from the C.D.C.:

 

60% of gun deaths are suicides, that's 19,200.

3% are accidents, that's 960.

4% are justified, that's 1,280

33% are homicides, that's 10,560

*80% of those homicides are gang-related, that's 8,448.

 

That leaves about 1,712 gun deaths in a society of 312 million people.

 

That means you have a 0.00010256410256% chance of getting killed by a gun. That number goes down even further to 0.000008564102564% if you don't hang out in ''the hood'', if you're not planning on committing suicide, and are not planning a crime.

[Fox Fire]

I don't own a TV and I don't like cheeseburgers!

 

I own a car because it would take me an awful long time to get around the country, it isn't something I have a right to. Most of the things I own have a purpose that makes my life easier. But here is my point I don't demand that I am able to buy a firearm because it is my right. I know that under UK modern law it isn't since the law has been amended since 1689, surely the fact that Americans treat the 2nd Amendment as unchangeable is more than slightly ironic? Surely the world has changed since then, we don't use flintlocks for the majority of our weaponry. Come on folks, when people are needlessly dying something needs to change.

 

Firearms "rights" are infringing on the right of people to live, that is a right that has more power the the right to supposedly "defend" yourself, most gun shots by criminals are fatal and unexpected and unable to be defended against.

It saddens me that when Obama actually tries to reduce deaths in the USA he is slammed for it. What is the man supposed to do? I have said it before and I will say it again, it is much harder to kill someone when guns are not involved. How many young children in the US are inadvertently murderers? Compare this with Europe and we see an interesting correlation. I am no expert on the US, I have friends who live out there and so I find it interesting and I find some of what y'all post here baffling.

 

Sorry if this post is rambling,

But that is not why Americans are allowed to own guns, which is part of the problem we're having with guns in America. The second amendment says this:

 

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

So the obvious purpose of this is to maintain a well regulated militia. Unfortunately there is no well regulated militia other than perhaps some private military contractors. We seem to interpret this text to mean "everyone can own guns for no reason". Of course we can't just go take all guns away from people who don't reasonably need them because this would also contradict the text "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". On the other hand, our government has already violated this by restricting guns from certain people like felons and the mentally ill.

So we allow our citizens to be armed, some to the teeth, but we don't really give them a purpose for being so heavily armed. Considering that firearms are tools designed solely to kill, it's not surprising that an armed populace with no reason to be armed will use said arms on each other in desperate situations. 

I can agree that gun control does prevent people from murdering each other, especially on large scales, but I don't believe that tightening gun regulation is going to work in the United States. It might have, if we took peoples guns away 100+ years ago, but not so much today. 

I'm not slamming Obama for his new executive action. I don't even disagree with it. I just don't think it's going to make a difference. We have countless guns all over the nation, many we can't track or even be sure exist. Background checks are certainly no assurance that somebody won't commit a massacre and they are already a general practice that most gun stores are going to do. As for people selling guns privately and such without background checks, I don't see how this is going to be enforced very effectively. Marijuana is federally illegal but that isn't stopping states from practicing otherwise.

 

 

There are roughly 32,000 deaths a year in the US that are caused from gun violence (a number that is going down, by the way). These numbers are from the C.D.C.:

 

60% of gun deaths are suicides, that's 19,200.

3% are accidents, that's 960.

4% are justified, that's 1,280

33% are homicides, that's 10,560

*80% of those homicides are gang-related, that's 8,448.

 

That leaves about 1,712 gun deaths in a society of 312 million people.

 

That means you have a 0.00010256410256% chance of getting killed by a gun. That number goes down even further to 0.000008564102564% if you don't hang out in ''the hood'', if you're not planning on committing suicide, and are not planning a crime.

Link?

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I wasn't sure where you were standing on my previous comments and that clarifies it nicely, thank you

[Thalmor]

 

Link?

 

TBH - It was just a copy-pasta thing I found. I used it, though, because it fit the things I had heard earlier.

 

I'm sure a few minutes of searching could turn up better evidence.

[Doktor Avalanche]

I don't own a TV and I don't like cheeseburgers!

 

I own a car because it would take me an awful long time to get around the country, it isn't something I have a right to. Most of the things I own have a purpose that makes my life easier. But here is my point I don't demand that I am able to buy a firearm because it is my right. I know that under UK modern law it isn't since the law has been amended since 1689, surely the fact that Americans treat the 2nd Amendment as unchangeable is more than slightly ironic? Surely the world has changed since then, we don't use flintlocks for the majority of our weaponry. Come on folks, when people are needlessly dying something needs to change.

 

Firearms "rights" are infringing on the right of people to live, that is a right that has more power the the right to supposedly "defend" yourself, most gun shots by criminals are fatal and unexpected and unable to be defended against.

It saddens me that when Obama actually tries to reduce deaths in the USA he is slammed for it. What is the man supposed to do? I have said it before and I will say it again, it is much harder to kill someone when guns are not involved. How many young children in the US are inadvertently murderers? Compare this with Europe and we see an interesting correlation. I am no expert on the US, I have friends who live out there and so I find it interesting and I find some of what y'all post here baffling.

I am not infringing on others rights because I own a gun.

Please, seriously, tend to your own issues in your own nation. Leave America the !@#$ alone, okay? I am done with this tripe about how we compare to Europe You know what? !@#$ Europe. !@#$ pansy ass Europe. There is a reason people founded the United States and really did not want to go back to !@#$ing Europe. So leave the United States to us to handle If you have an issue with the way we do things, we really don't give a flying !@#$.

Edited January 10, 2016 by VasiliusKonstantinos

[Lannan13]

If guns kill people then, spoons made me fat.

[Hereno]

If guns kill people then, spoons made me fat.

guns are designed to help you kill more efficiently. spoons are designed to help you eat more efficiently.

 

banning guns will stop people from killing as efficiently, even if they still can with other methods. banning spoons will stop people from eating as efficiently, even if they still can using other utensils.

 

it just makes it harder to accomplish what you want to accomplish, raising the stakes. it's easier to shoot someone than to stab them. but, if you really want them to die, you'll make it happen regardless, unless you're not able to.

 

but at the same time, it's nowhere near that simple. which, really, is my point about your statement.

[Big Brother]

I am not infringing on others rights because I own a gun.

Please, seriously, tend to your own issues in your own nation. Leave America the !@#$ alone, okay? I am done with this tripe about how we compare to Europe You know what? !@#$ Europe. !@#$ pansy ass Europe. There is a reason people founded the United States and really did not want to go back to !@#$ Europe. So leave the United States to us to handle If you have an issue with the way we do things, we really don't give a flying !@#$.

Lmao, u mad?

 

Anyone has the right to voice their own opinion on whatever they want, regardless of where they're from or where they live. You don't get to decide what people discuss and what people choose to compare.

 

The United States was made by people who first came from Europe to settle there, the millions of Europeans that later migrated to the New World and was built on values and ideas that originated in Europe. By insulting Europe in this manner, not only are you insulting yourself, but you're confirming countless stereotypes pertaining to American citizens. Everyone who has a problem with guns and gun violence is a pansy, right?

 

The US has positioned itself as the leader of the West and the "free world" on the international stage. A lot of eyes are on you. If you can't handle the attention and the criticism, maybe you should act differently. And if you really don't care about what Europeans think of your country, why even bother to post at all?

 

Compose yourself, please. There's no reason for this sort of apelike crap-throwing in form of words.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Big Brother

[Mutsuo Toi]

Lmao, u mad?

Lmao, u mad?

Lmao, u mad?

It's time to go back to reddit and take that cancerous memes with you, "Onee-chan"

Edited January 10, 2016 by Howard Roark

[Captain_Vietnam]

liberal like big brother are destroying america through gun control and athiesm.

 

athiesm support gun control as god allow us to have guns. athiest against this

[Mutsuo Toi]

liberal like big brother are destroying america through gun control and athiesm.

 

athiesm support gun control as god allow us to have guns. athiest against this

> Atheist only support gun control.

Not ALL Atheist are liberal scum who support gun control, A lot of libertarians are atheists.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Howard Roark

[Big Brother]

It's time to go back to reddit and take that cancerous memes with you, "Onee-chan"

 

And it's time for you to stop making terrible posts and stop having terrible opinions, but I have a feeling neither is going to happen. People like you, who make juvenile remarks and use terms like "liberal scum", are hardly worth discussing anything with because your bias doesn't allow you to look past your own pre-established opinion.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

liberal like big brother are destroying america through gun control and athiesm.

 

athiesm support gun control as god allow us to have guns. athiest against this

 

God is pro-guns? That's news to me, certainly in the case of the the  Christian God.....oh and I am neither liberal or atheist.....

[Doktor Avalanche]

Lmao, u mad?

 

Anyone has the right to voice their own opinion on whatever they want, regardless of where they're from or where they live. You don't get to decide what people discuss and what people choose to compare.

 

The United States was made by people who first came from Europe to settle there, the millions of Europeans that later migrated to the New World and was built on values and ideas that originated in Europe. By insulting Europe in this manner, not only are you insulting yourself, but you're confirming countless stereotypes pertaining to American citizens. Everyone who has a problem with guns and gun violence is a pansy, right?

 

The US has positioned itself as the leader of the West and the "free world" on the international stage. A lot of eyes are on you. If you can't handle the attention and the criticism, maybe you should act differently. And if you really don't care about what Europeans think of your country, why even bother to post at all?

 

Compose yourself, please. There's no reason for this sort of apelike crap-throwing in form of words.

Posting that was my birthday present to myself yesterday. Any chance I get to voice !@#$ Europe I will. Thank you for taking the bait.

Also, it amuses me to see you say that I need to compose myself while also chastising me about not letting others voice their concerns. The biggest advocates for gun control are Europeans. I have a right to call bullshit. Bullshit. !@#$ Europe and their bullshit. If you have issues, then check yourself as well. But I am smiling

[Robert Ap Ioan]

The more I read from Americans on this board the more I understand how the stereotypes about Americans came to be. I thought you actually had common sense and weren't a nutjob until the case of fire-arms came up. It's sad to be proved wrong, but hey.......

 

You are just showing why most of the world despises America, the f**k you attitude and all. I can't wait till the USAF leaves it's bases in the UK.

[Doktor Avalanche]

The more I read from Americans on this board the more I understand how the stereotypes about Americans came to be. I thought you actually had common sense and weren't a nutjob until the case of fire-arms came up. It's sad to be proved wrong, but hey.......

 

You are just showing why most of the world despises America, the f**k you attitude and all. I can't wait till the USAF leaves it's bases in the UK.

I already debated, with evidence, to why I hold to my stances. This has been debated to the fullest extent with all sides disagreeing with their own personal biases included. Many others have voiced their !@#$-all. I decided to throw my !@#$-all in the mix.

I do not consider you a nutjob, just quick to throw a right very quickly away out of paranoia.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I guess this debate is over realistically on this forum

[Big Brother]

Posting that was my birthday present to myself yesterday. Any chance I get to voice !@#$ Europe I will. Thank you for taking the bait.

Also, it amuses me to see you say that I need to compose myself while also chastising me about not letting others voice their concerns. The biggest advocates for gun control are Europeans. I have a right to call bullshit. Bullshit. !@#$ Europe and their bullshit. If you have issues, then check yourself as well. But I am smiling

 

Well that seems like a pretty bad birthday present if you ask me. Really, all the petty insults you're spewing says infinitely more about you than it does about Europe or Europeans.

 

Asking you to compose yourself is not the same as telling you to not voice an opinion on something. I welcome any and all opinions, unlike you apparently. All I meant is that you should be calm and level-headed while participating in a discussion, which you clearly failed to accomplish. By acting this way, you're shit-posting in the most literal sense, you're flinging insults at an entire continent of people just because some of them don't have the same opinion as you and you're really not contributing in any constructive manner whatsoever.

 

Honestly dude, I have complete confidence in your abilities as a human being to do better than this. I think you know that posting like you have posted accomplishes nothing except perhaps a temporary moment of gratification and civil debasement.

[Solomon]

In answer to the OP question, gun controls work well in other developed countries so it's rational to expect that they would work in the USA, unless it can be shown that there are fundamental differences between the USA and other developed countries.

[Doktor Avalanche]

I tell the whole convo, which has been debated for months, to !@#$ off once and I get shit for it, completely throwing my civility in the past out for months to a single post and its "down the drain"...

Whatever.

[Big Brother]

Once is all it takes

[WISD0MTREE]

Immigrants haven't really effected crime stats,

 

competition air gun legally,

i cri ery tiem

 

This made me laugh. 

 

God is pro-guns? That's news to me, certainly in the case of the the  Christian God...

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

-Luke 22:36 

(The above quote is from the Last Supper, right before Jesus is killed. Given that information, you can come to the conclusion that it is talking about self defense.) 

 

unless it can be shown that there are fundamental differences between the USA and other developed countries.

How about 300,000,000 guns to collect? 

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I wonder what France's crime stats are like? I am sure that similar to Britain there is very little difference. Germany has had a big immigrant population for a long time and it hasn't been treated very well. Most terrorist attacks are perpetrated by long term residents disenfranchised.

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

-Luke 22:36 

(The above quote is from the Last Supper, right before Jesus is killed. Given that information, you can come to the conclusion that it is talking about self defense.)

Jesus' antics in the Garden of Gethsemene kinda totally destroy your argument. Especially his comments about living by the sword. Also his comments on turning the other cheek. Jesus doesn't promote rebellion against the state, in fact quite the reverse.