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I was referring to the content within this event. Hope your 5+ years of experience can show you to escape Rose soon.

Just after BroFam declared the treaty null. Black Skies has came up with various allegations in their drama post. They will be answered and debunked in this post. The first allegation from Alan on Brotherhood Family is "The debt was actively being paid off until TCM allowed a default of $1,473,995,250." This is what Alan said in the forum post. The above statement states that the payment were intended to stop by him when TCM defaulted not when SIN hit HS/BS. That means wartime was just a excuse. The real reason was to satisfy himself by throwing all the anger on BroFam. Also , He can't default on us if someone defaulted on him. TCM did not pay BS it's debt. Does this act give BS the right to not pay it's debt? TCM and BroFam are two different alliances. The second allegation from Alan is "Brotherhood Family violated the treaty terms and instead of looking like a bully Black Skies let it slide." According to Alan , Article 3 is what has been voilated. They say that BroFam never met to discuss further issues. We could not meet if there was no discussion held at the first place. Was BroFam supposed to set up the channel? Also , If Alan cared too much about the treaty. This term was not violated by BroFam because it was not supposed to set up the discussion channel. We had to be part of it. If there was no discussion channel set up , how will we join it? The channel was supposed to be set up by TCM. Alan did not care about the treaty. If he had cared , he would have edited 'Dark Brotherhood' to 'The Coal Mines' and not have stopped payments. The biggest question is Did TCM consent to the term? or was it just added because our glorious dramaking Alan willed so? TCM not paying the debt which its members owe to BS is an issue between BS and TCM. BroFam and this treaty has no place there. The third allegation by Alan is No discussion was had for Brotherhood Family and Black Skies to lay out a full schedule for the debt repayments. Post war, like all "reset relations" with Black Skies, Brotherhood Family and TCM flipped us the bird and went on with their days. PK, is still managing FA and still harassing members of Black Skies. The claim made by BS that BroFam did not contact BS is false. BroFam did contact BS. A Alan said the money will be paid in a one lump sum but Jupiter kept paying installments and we accepted those. There was official discussion regarding debt repayment between BS and BroFam and BroFam was told they will receive money in one lump sum. Black Skies did not enforced their word on Jupiter to pay the money in one lump sum and we also realized that it is futile to ask Alan so we started accepting whatever Jupiter the 'Wardodger' was giving in installments. BroFam did not forced him to pay a fixed amount of money every installment and there was also no time period of installments. We just needed our money at the end of 60 days. There is also no term preventing PK from doing FA. He has the full right to conduct FA since he is the leader of the alliance. Alan has no right to impose his will over him. The fourth allegation by Alan is Brotherhood Family's harassment of members is one of the reasons Black Skies went to full war. This reason was not discussed in the forum post. The harassment of members was never listed as CB by BS for attacking BroFam during the war , Alan Tripped and Fell. BroFam denies any claim that it has harassed its own members and since its inception , BroFam has not been involved in any drama where it harassed its own members. Alan had nothing to point out regarding harassment so he just ignored to discuss it but still listed it to make BroFam look bad. The fifth allegation by Alan is Jupiter was not a war-dodger and BroFam abused its members. I will phrase it once again , BroFam has never abused its members and Alan has no evidence. If you have any , drop it below. Jupiter left during the war because the war was destroying his nation. If he is not a wardodger. Then , what is he? Roquentin? The sixth allegation has not been made on BroFam but on TCM TCM's failure to work with Brotherhood Family's FA department According to the treaty , TCM is not supposed to work on and retrain BroFam's FA. TCM was only supposed to set up the channel but did Alan seek permission from TCM about including this term? As I said while answering the second allegation , It was only included because dramaking Alan willed so. The responsibility of enforcing Article 3 , Section A is on TCM but Did TCM even sign the treaty and agreed to that clause? The sixth allegation by Alan is Brotherhood Family's violation of allowing members to leave willingly No member from BroFam joined BS while the treaty was in effect. The only person to leave BroFam was Jupiter the 'Wardodger' who left mid war when the treaty had did not even come into effect. The treaty included the term that BroFam will not restrict any member from leaving for Black Skies but no one was constrained from joining any alliance. The last allegation made by Alan is Brotherhood Family's death threats/harassment against members and government of Black Skies during and post war. There has been no death threats made by BroFam. If you think something is wrong , Please contact game staff and forums and drama is not the place to solve this. Debt collection is not 'harassment'. According to Jupiter , we bullied and harassed when he was attacked for debts and wardodging during the war. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You should focus with your war with Singularity in which you are getting rolled instead of giving Christmas gifts.

Forum users when there is content on the forums 😨 Ignore the topic if you don't want to read it, in every one of posts by both Alan and Popat there have been too much content for a post reply.

Its Common Sense. In the real world, if you go AWOL in the army during a war, that constitutes desertion, in other words, war dodging. Dude I knew this since day 1 of playing this game.

The argument between Rose and T$'s resident idiots is still more interesting than the original topic of this thread.

What? Yes, you should know this, ESPECIALLY if you've been playing for 2 years. Basic common sense.

Now you're just playing dumb man, you know what he means, you just can't accept it.

Actually, I would.

Leaving in the middle of a war still constitutes being a war dodger, irregardless of if you got accepted after the wars end.

Comedy Gold

Be eager to learn and demonstrate that you can use at least a handful of braincells as a new player. As this is apparently an entirely new concept to Rose, get kicked out under suspicions of reroll and spying. Spying = unironically being Inst, by the way, a rumor started by Minesome that I assume was a joke, because it was literally just "you also have a cat pfp and talk a lot for a new player."

For the younglings out there, because I know that long time players tend to just assume that everyone knows the Unwritten Rules of Orbis (tm), when you are considering applying to an alliance, ask what their departure policy is up front. Some will insist on the repayment of loans before you leave (and grants if you leave before you've been a member for a minimum number of days), some will pursue you as a deserter and attack your nation if you leave mid-war. You can avoid a whole lot of grief.

Well it took you a couple weeks to get kicked out. Maybe you could teach us your ways?

Do you remember the time when I told you that you have to be with us in distress and that your nation could be destroyed but the damage will be temporary?

"O.M.G. He hit him with the chair!"

We never created Drama. We declared the treaty null. What next? He made a whole post making false allegations. We will not tolerate those false allegations and have countered them. You are right but the content was large so I made a new post. I will keep your suggestion in my mind for the future. Thanks!

Best of luck, Popat! ❤️

Bro Alan now has a friend to create drama with. Thanks to both of these alliance for keeping the community entertained. Might cause an NPOLT lvl drama.

How exactly is this your takeaway? TCM isnt here to play debt collection agency, nor were we approached for this middle man stuff. Its not our responsibility to recover Black Skies funds, whereas Black Skies (Alan) made it their responsibility through agreeing to pay back BroFam. PRIU hadn't even joined us at the point of Alan inquiring about their debts. In contrast, Alan made a specific agreement for the debt with BroFam. Now he is reneging on it and pulling (shaky) excuses to cover his ass. I think Kastor put it most eloquently.

What I'm getting out of all this is that Alan expected TCM to be a debt collection agency to rescue him from his bad loan decisions.

All this shows is your word means absolutely nothing. You, Alan, made an agreement and signed it. Regardless of anything else you agreed yo pay back that specific debt. You then reneged on doing that. There is no getting around that. TCM definitely should’ve been more diplomatic, but to be completely fair it’s not exactly their job to recover funds for you. Just because you couldn’t enforce on those members nor resolve diplomatically doesn’t give you reason to go back on your word and lie.

3 !@#$ed drama groups communicate, and create !@#$ed drama.

No one asked TCM to be a middle man or told us about setting up a channel and we have an FA server with a ticket bot so it's not a hard process to come to us. I did give BroFam advice to let it slide which is FA help because I perceived it being dumb to chase after money that they make in a week or 2 anyways. And on the PRIU membership thing I do not care about PRIU debt they had not fully joined us till several days later afterall mine and Alan's discussion and I don't think a fraction of a week's income is worth being angry over. Lastly if Alan wants us to be a Middle he knows where to find my FA staff. I would argue if anything our prot broke some prot terms lately and Alan is imposing terms we had no idea existed.

>gets attacked >leaves and joins alliance attacking "not a wardodger!"

I stopped reading when I saw there was a suggested rebuild to 1680 infra.

Thanks for getting my hopes up, jerk.

Good Luck to everyone, hope everyone has a great holiday season.

I am participating because this is Thalmoria adjacent; the only community outlet in Orbis with honor. I can't edit this post so I have to write everything in here real quick. I'd like to thank Nome, and Iroh, and my mom.

I apologize to the P&W community that wake up every day just to see some nonsense posted on the forum. Instead of having a discussion or having an IQ above room temp people would rather air out their bull---- in a feeble attempt to make me and Black Skies look bad. TL;DR The debt was actively being paid off until TCM allowed a default of $1,473,995,250. Brotherhood Family violated the treaty terms and instead of looking like a bully Black Skies let it slide. Brotherhood Family's harassment of members is one of the reasons Black Skies went to full war. Skipped issues: Jupiter was not a war-dodger and BroFam abused it's members TCM's failure to work with Brotherhood Family's FA department Brotherhood Family's violation of allowing members to leave willingly Brotherhood Family's death threats/harassment against members and government of Black Skies during and post war Issue One - The Debt I knew that Jupiter Jones (Empire of Mickey Mouse and hereby referred to as "JJ") couldn't pay off a nearly $1.2B debt on his own. Black Skies would have to chip in everywhere we could in order to make money as a pseudo "Go-Fund Me" for his nation. I started raiding post war and was adding funds to my safekeep and to JJ's debt repayment. I even skipped the rebuild post Federated States of Orbis/Nemesys (FSO/Nem) war and instead added $137m to JJ's repayment. JJ himself declined the rebuild money and instead put it towards his debt. To JJ's credit he paid off a good swathe of his debt by himself all while being a war torn nation paying: 191,000 Food 2,200 Uranium 5,500 Bauxite 10,000 Munitions 11,000 Aluminum JJ's remaining debt would of been paid off on December 1st. JJ himself through taxes, safekeeping and rejecting rebuilds accumulated $367m in cash. I through food sales and raiding had accumulated an additional $411m in cash. The plan was to pay back Brotherhood Family with our combined funds and the alliance would pay for the rest. JJ would then gradually pay that off over time through either increased taxes or safekeeping. However on November 17th Palsada decided to leave to The Coal Mines (TCM) taking a few folks with him. Those members had outstanding debts with Black Skies totaling $1,473,995,250. I went and discussed the matter with TCM to which TCM responded with it wasn't their job and he let debts slide. So then that was that. If TCM wouldn't pay off the debts of their members why was Black Skies expected to do it's part especially to Brotherhood Family, a TCM prot. The dripping irony of Black Skies would have to take the high road again, and hurt itself, was absurd. So instead TCM defaulted on $1.47B in debts and in turn Black Skies defaulted on $1.05B in debts. While we're still not even, in the current circumstance that's as good as it's going to get. Issue Two - Violation of the Treaty Unfortunately Brotherhood Family glossed over a very, very important term. However Dark Brotherhood was smart and decided to step back and away from the cluster---- that is Brotherhood Family. Once Black Skies was informed they'd be signing TCM and after death threats from PK an amendment was made to the 3 different peace options we gave to Brotherhood Family: However in true fashion, no channel was set up by TCM to discuss PK's abuse and harassment. No discussion was had for Brotherhood Family and Black Skies to lay out a full schedule for the debt repayments. Post war, like all "reset relations" with Black Skies, Brotherhood Family and TCM flipped us the bird and went on with their days. PK, is still managing FA and still harassing members of Black Skies. Instead of redeclaring war on something so trivial (and with TCM being no help FA wise) it was decided by Black Skies FA to let the failed treaty slide to give BF the peace of mind that we wouldn't move against them. Issue Three - Breaking the NAP This is yet another great example of a knee jerk reaction from PK. The NAP was cancelled when it still had 2 months to go. That NAP was not for Black Skies. That NAP was because Brotherhood Family was saved by FSO/Nem and was given a peace out option. Had FSO/Nem not gotten involved the war for Brotherhood Family would of continued for a loooooong time. I attempted one last message to address the situation: The two month treaty is still awaiting approval. Instead of them opening an FA ticket, or have TCM come in to discuss things Brotherhood Family decided to make a forum post airing out all this bull----. I will applaud BF though for not declaring war on us in their forum post and specifically stating that. They removed the one gift we could of gotten this Christmas.

What ever. Popat the 'warmonger'

Well if someone had told me (before) when they had the chance to this whole fiasco wouldn't happen.

They literally haven't been, but what do we know, we've only been around for 5+ years each, versus your... Six months. Yeah. Well, I for one remember when bigger rebuttals than this weren't their own forum topics. But that doesn't work for people grandstanding for attention to be knighted as the shiniest of turds.

Would what?

But you expect someone who is playing for 2 years to know such term? That's just sad. Oh yea, I defeated you once before and now I look forward on beating you again in war.

Calling bull. I originally went to dark brotherhood. Got ignored there applied to Black skies. DIDNT get accepted till after the war. So therefore you will need to learn the facts, and tell pk to change attitude.

Look, we don’t need a new thread every day just post a response in the 2 threads we already have.

We don't suggest rebuilds to 1680 infra. What an absurd and weird number.