Naval Warfare overhaul proposal

[Black]

      Recently I have noticed that the simulator that gives the most information in all of P&W is Baseball. This got me thinking on a way to improve the overall war experience within P&W (hopefully) for the better. First of all as a disclaimer as I have comparatively low war experience all numbers are subject to change based on suggestions and feedback. Secondly this will be a very long post so feel free to leave your TL;DR below. 

   

 

As a fan of Naval Warfare in general the first proposal I am making is an overhaul to the entire naval combat system in a number of aspects.

 

1. Immediate changes 

 

a.All Dry docks will be able to house 2 ships each instead of the current 5. 

 

 

b. A new spy action to gain intelligence on enemy ship placements.

 This will come with a low success rate however a failure will still bring back some information about enemy fleet formations.

 

2. Ships 

 

This is by far the biggest change. Instead of being cheap units that are either destroyed in battle or survive they will become expensive units which can cumulatively take damage over battles eventually sinking if not repaired. (repairs will be explained later.)

 

Destroyers(DD) HP 50,000 Net damage: 7,000

 

 

These will be the all purpose ship with a good amount of damage against almost all types of ship for a fairly low cost.

 

x3 against Carriers (21,000) 6 turns

x2 against Battleships (14,000) 8 turns

x1.7 against submarines (11,900) 3 turns

x1.5 against frigates (10,500) 5 turns

x1.5 against destroyers (10,500) 5 turns

x1.5 against Corvettes (10,500) 5 turns

x.5 against cruisers (3,500) 18 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 1,300

10% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $1,000,000

      100 aluminium

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Corvettes(DDC) HP 50,000 Net damage: 6,500

 

 

Corvettes will be purpose built sub killers having the potential to sink a sub in one critical attack. These are also on of the two cheapest units making them an essential part of a fleet.

 

x3 against Submarines (19,500) 2 turns

x2 against Carriers (13,000) 8 turns

x1 against frigates (6,500) 8 turns

x1 against corvettes (6,500) 8 turns

x1 against cruisers (6,500) 10 turns

x.7 against battleships (4,550) 22 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 1,300

10% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $700,000

      70 aluminium

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frigates(FF) HP 50,000 Net damage: 6,000

 

 

Frigates will be the specialists in dealing with carriers and air strikes with the highest chance of shooting down an attacking plane of any ship. As they are the second of the two cheapest units they also serve well in an escort role.

 

x2 against Carriers (12,000) 9 turns

x2 against submarines (12,000) 3 turns

x1 against frigates (6,000) 9 turns

x1 against corvettes (6,000) 9 turns

x1 against cruisers (6,000) 10 turns

x.7 against battleships (4,200) 24 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 1,300

20% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $700,000

      70 aluminium

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cruisers(CL) HP 60,000 Net damage: 6,000

 

 

Cruisers are a perfect counters to destroyers making them an excellent escort to battleships and carriers. They are also more bulky then all destroyers, Corvettes and frigates at a low extra cost making them able to serve on the front lines. 

 

x3 against Destroyers (18,000) 3 turns

x2 against submarines (12,000) 3 turns

x2 against carriers (12,000) 9 turns

x1 against frigates (6,000) 9 turns

x1 against corvettes (6,000) 9 turns

x1 against cruisers (6,000) 10 turns

x.5 against battleships 3,000) 34 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 2,600

10% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $1,200,000

      120 aluminium

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aircraft Carriers(CV) HP 100,000 Net damage: (aircraft x 1500) takes 1 turn to rearm

 

 

Carriers have the highest potential damage of any ship however this comes at a cost. Not only is the CV the most expensive ship but it is also weak against any other unit in addition to requiring a turn to reload planes and facing the possibility of losing planes. Planes stationed on a carrier (up to 9) may also be used in an air strike allowing up to 18 extra planes per city.

 

x3 against battleships (4,500-40,500) 23-3 turns

x3 against carriers (4,500-40,500) 23-3 turns

x2 against cruisers (3,000-27,000) 40-6 turns

x1 against corvettes (1,500-13,500) 68-8 turns

x1 against destroyers (1,500-13,500) 68-8 turns

x1 against frigates (1,500-13,500) 68-8 turns 

x1 against submarines (1,500-13,500) 34-4 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 3,900

15% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $3,000,000

      100 aluminium

      300 steel

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Battleships(BB) HP 100,000 Net damage: 5,000

 

 

Battleships will serve as a wall of steel for the fleet. These iron giants have the most amount of HP with the smallest amount of weaknesses. Their firepower against ships however is lackluster in comparison and their giant size makes them very vulnerable to submarines making corvettes essential in many cases.

 

x3 against Cruisers (15,000) 4 turns

x2 against carriers (10,000) 10 turns

x1 against frigates (5,000) 10 turns

x1 against battleships (5,000) 20 turns

x1 against Corvettes (5,000) 10 turns

x1 against destoyers (5,000) 10 turns

x.5 against submarines (2,500) 10 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 3,900

5% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $2,500,000

      450 steel

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submarine(SS) HP 25,000 Net damage:10,000

 

 

Submarines have the highest potential damage of any unit beating even carriers in any battle lasting over one turns. This high damage comes at a sharp cost giving them the lowest HP of any ship allowing them to get taken out in as little as 1 turn by a lucky corvette.

 

x3 against Carriers (30,000) 4 turns

x3 against Battleships (30,000) 4 turns

x1.5 against frigates (15,000) 4 turns

x1.5 against cruisers (15,000) 4 turns

x1 against submarines (10,000) 3 turns

x.7 against destroyers (7,000) 8 turns

x.5 against Corvettes (5,000) 10 turns

 

each plane that hits (in an airstrike) will deal 1,300

3% chance of shooting down each plane, that attacks this ship, individually

 

cost $1,500,000

      100 aluminium

       30 uranium

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Divisions, standby and mothballing 

 

a. Mothballing

 

Naturally since this will reduce the number of ships within a nation the cost of said ships must go up. In the case of carriers they will be very expensive to keep in active service so they may be mothballed. 

By mothballing a ship it will require one turns to complete and will cut the cost of keeping that ship by 75%. This applies to war and peacetime. While this may be a good way to save money it's also a risk as a ship that is mothballed must be prepped for service in war time. This procedure will take two turns per ship.

 

b. Standby

 

Well a ship is in standby it is awaiting placement in a division. During this time the ship will not participate in any naval engagements but it will be a valid target during an airstrike and able to assist in attacking planes. To remove a ship from standby it must be placed in a division.

 

c. Divisions

 

Divisions are a group of 1-9 ships that will be able to participate in naval engagements. Divisions may be created or disbanded at anytime. For example if my nation owns 6 ships I may have on division of 6, 2 divisions of 3, 6 divisions of 1 et cetera. Though in most cases it is best to keep larger divisions. These divisions may be used to break blockades with no penalty.

 

d. Deploying divisions

 

I. Defensive Divisions: These divisions will patrol around your nations and fend off attacking fleets. These divisions may be disbanded or redeployed with no penalty. 

 

II. Standby Offensive Divisions: These Divisions are divisions awaiting attack orders. They will not assist in defensive engagements so it is safe to have a division of 9 submarines in this deployment.These divisions may be disbanded or redeployed with no penalties. These divisions may be used to break blockades with no penalty.

 

III. Engaged Offensive Divisions: These divisions are divisions who have been sent on a offensive strike an prevailed. These Divisions must will blockade the defender, if they're defeated, and must be defeated in order to break the blockade. These divisions may attack infrastructure within cities. Ships in these divisions CANNOT be repaired without ordering a withdrawal. If these divisions are disbanded or redeployed the blockade on the enemy will be lifted.

 

4. Repairs 

 

a.Money:

 

Ships that have been damaged in engagements can be repaired to increase their odds of survival. Ship repair costs will follow these formulas.

(C/2)(P/100) 

where C = Initial Cost of the ship and P = percent damage. 

For example if a destroyer was damaged by 50% in battle it would cost $250,000 to repair as shown below.

(1,000,000/2)(50/100)

(500,000)(.5)

$250,000

 

b. Resources 

 

Resources will be calculated on a slightly different formula.

®(P/100)

where R = initial resources and P = to percent damage.

this is because if a hole required 10 steel to fill once it will require 10 steel the second time.

Revisiting the destroyer at 50% we can see the amount of aluminium needed will be 50 aluminium.

(100)(50/100)

(100)(.5)

50

 

5. Attacking infrastructure

 

In order for a division to attack infrastructure it MUST be blockading the nation. For another division to attack infrastructure they must defeat another division. (further explained in strategies)  

 

In the case of attacking infrastructure ships will have different modifiers once again.

battleships will be capable of the most damage during a bombardment.

Cruisers will be do the second most amount of damage.

Destroyers, Frigates and Corvettes will do the least amount of damage.

Submarines will not be able to attack.

Carriers will attack in an airstrike only.

 

Until I can find out the current formula for determining infrastructure lost by a naval strike, in the current system, or simulate 500 battles I cannot give specific numbers.

 

6. How ships attack

First of all each naval strike can consist of up to 4 turns. A victory however can only be won during a 4 turn battle however. Smaller battles will serve more for weakening an opponent.

 

Within a division each ship may be given one of the following attack orders.

 

Prioritize Battleships

Prioritize Destoryers

Prioritize Cruisers

Prioritize Carriers

Prioritize submarines

Prioritize Corvettes

Prioritize Frigates

or Any target(default) 

 

When given an order a ship will strike the corresponding ship whenever possible. If there is more than one of the corresponding ships within range it will randomly select from the nearest ships( up to 33%).

 

Each ship will also have a certain range.

 

note: if you find the following confusing it will become more clear in the example battle.

 

Battleships may attack on space in front of them

Destroyers may attack two spaces ahead of them

Cruisers may attack two spaces in front of them

Submarines may attack three spaces in front of them

Corvettes may attack two spaces in front of them

Frigates may attack two spaces in front of them

carriers may attack six spaces in front of them.

 

7. Strategies 

 

a. Number of divisions

 

This new system will allow for a significant increase in strategy. For example the number of divisions you keep is the amount of enemy divisions that can blockade you. So Keeping 1 division of 9 ships will only allow once blockade and likely minimal losses in an attack. Keeping 9 divisions on 1 ship will allow 9 divisions to blockade you and condemn your ships to sink. In this way it creates a balancing act between the most effective number of divisions to keep. Additionally if you only keep 3 divisions and you blockade a nation 3 times you will NOT be able to blockade another nation.

 

b. Division management. 

 

As stated above the number of times you can be blockaded is determined by the amount of divisions you keep. This is NOT limited to defensive devisions only. Therefore after an enemy has forced all your defensive divisions to retreat or destroyed them they will be able to continue to blockade you further without risking their ships (AKA 9 battleships coming for your infrastructure). 

 

c. Ships within a division.

This one goes without saying but as an example if a spy operation reveals that an enemy fleet consists of entirely battleships a good strategy would be to put 3 submarines on the front lines and 6 battleships (in order to damage infrastructure later) so you can minimize losses.

 

8. Mock battle:

 

If you made it this far thank you! Below is a battle simulated by hand using the proper probability and damage modifiers. I apologize if there's a mistake anywhere but with was all done by hand.

 

Initial fleet status:

Orbis:

 

Battleship Dio Brando (100,000) Any target

Cruiser Trump 2016 (60,000) Prioritize Destroyers

Battleship Sparta (100,000) Any target

Corvetta Caillou (50,000) Prioritize Submarines

sub P&W (25,000) prioritize Battleships 

DD Baatopia (50,000) prioritize Battleships

CV Ayy LMAO (100,000) (9 planes) prioritize battleships

frigate me not (50,000) any target

CV Orbis (100,000) (9 planes) prioritize Carriers)

 

Imperial Japan

 

BB Yamato (100,000) Any target

Cruiser Yubari (60,000) Prioritize Destroyers

BB Kongo (100,000) Any target

Sub 1-401 (25,000) prioritize Battleships 

DD Shimekaze (50,000) prioritize submarines

Sub 1-402 (25,000) prioritize Battleships 

carrier Shokaku (100,000) (9 planes) prioritize Carriers)

Carrier Akagi (100,000) (9 planes) prioritize Carriers)

Carrier Shinano (100,000) (9 planes) prioritize Carriers)

 

Turn 1

Imperial Japan initiated a suprise attack 

 

BB Yamato Critically hit BB Dio Brando (92,500)92.5%

CL Yubari hit DD Baatopia (32,000) 64%

BB Kongo hit BB Sparta (95,000) 95%

---------------------------------------------

BB Dio Brando critically hit BB Yamato (92,500)92.5%

CL Trump 2016 critically hit DD Shimekaze (23,000) 46%

BB Sparta critically damaged BB Kongo (92,500)92.5%

-------------------------------------------------

SS I-401 hit BB Dio Brando (62,500)62.5%

DD Shimekaze hit SS P&W (13,100) 52.4%

SS I-402 critically hit BB Sparta (50,000) 50%

--------------------------------------------------

DDC caillou hit SS I-401 (5,500) 22%

SS P&W hit BB Kongo (62,500) 62.5%

DD Baatopia hit BB Kongo (48,500) 48.5%

--------------------------------------------

CV Shokaku hit CV Ayy LMAO (59,500) 59.5% (Lost 0 planes)

CV Akagi hit CV Ayy LMAO (32,500) 32.5% (Lost 3 planes)

CV Shinano hit CV Orbis (64,000) 64% (lost 1 plane)

------------------------------------------------------

CV Ayy LMAO hit BB Yamato (52,000) 52% (lost 1 plane) 2 critical hits

FF me not no target in range

CV Orbis hit CV Shinano (64,000) 64% (lost 2 planes) 2 critical hits

--------------------------------------------------------

Turn 2:

 

 

BB Yamato critically hit BB Dio Brando (55,000) 55%

CL Yubari hit DD Baatopia (14,000) 28%

BB Kongo hit BB Sparta (45,000) 45%

-----------------------------------------------

BB Dio Brando hit BB Yamato (47,000) 47%

CL Trump 2016 hit DD Shimekaze (5,000) 10%

BB Sparta hit BB Kongo (43,500) 43.5%

-------------------------------------------------

SS I-401 hit BB Dio Brando (25,000) 25%

DD Shimekaze hit SS P&W (1,200) 4.8%

SS I-402 hit BB Sparta (0) 0%

BB Sparta sunk

----------------------------------------

DDC Caillou hit I-401 (0) 0%

I-401 sunk

SS P&W hit BB Yamato (17,000) 17%

DD Baatopia hit BB Kongo (29,500) 29.5%

---------------------------------------------

CV Shokaku rearms 9 planes 

CV Akagi rearms 6 planes

CV Shinano rearms 8 planes

---------------------------------------

CV Ayy LMAO rearms 8 planes

FF me not no target in range

CV Orbis rearms 7 planes

-------------------------------------------------

Turn 3

 

 

BB Yamato hit BB Dio Brando (20,000) 20%

CL Yubari missed DD Baatopia (14,000) 28%

BB Kongo hit CL Trump 2016 (45,000) 75% 

-----------------------------------------------

BB Dio Brando missed BB Yamato (17,000) 17%

CL Trump 2016 hit DD Shimekaze (0) 0%

DD Shimekaze sank

-----------------------------------------------

SS I-402 missed Dio Brando (25,000) 25%

----------------------------------------------

DDC Caillou critically hit SS I-402 (0) 0%

SS I-402 sank 

SS P&W hit BB Kongo (0) 0%

BB Kongo sank

DD Baatopia missed BB Yamato

-----------------------------------------------

CV Shokaku hit CV Ayy LMAO (3,250) 3.25% (lost 3 planes) 1 critical hit

CV Akagi hit CV Orbis (54,250) 54.25% (1 critical hit)

CV Shinano hit CV Orbis (43,750) 43.75% (Lost 1 plane)

--------------------------------------------------------

CV Ayy LMAO hit BB Yamato (0) 0% (Lost 3 planes)

BB Yamato sank

FF me not no target in range

CV Orbis hit CV Shinano (48250) 48.25% (Lost 4 planes)

--------------------------------------------------------

Turn 4

 

 

CL Yubari hit DD Baatopia (0) 0%

DD Baatopia sank 

----------------------------------------

BB Dio Brando hit CL Yubari (45,000) 75%

CL Trump 2016 critically hit CL Yubari (36,000) 60%

-----------------------------------------------------

CV Shokaku rearms 6 planes

CV Akagi rearms 6 planes

CV Shinano rearms 7 planes

------------------------------------------------------------

DDC Caillou hits CL Yubari (29,500) 49%

SS P&W crititically hits CL Yubari (7,000) 11.5%

--------------------------------------------------------

CV Ayy LMAO rearms 5 planes

FF me not no target in range

CV Orbis rearms 3 planes

-------------------------------------------------

 

Losses:

 

 

Orbis: 

 

Ships:

 

BB Dio Brando 25% 

CL Trump 2016 75% 

BB Sparta 0% 

DDC Caillou 100%

SS P&W 4.8% 

DD Baatopia 0% 

CV Ayy LMAO 3.25% 

FF me not 0% 

CV Orbis 43.75% 

 

Imperial Japan

 

Ships: 

 

BB Yamato 0% 

CL Yubari 11.5 

BB Kongo 0% 

SS I-401 0% 

DD Shimekaze 0% 

SS I-401 0% 

CV Shokaku 100% 

CV Akagi 100% 

CV Shinano 48.25 

 

 

result Imperial Japan retreat

Victor Orbis 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Black

[Conner Temple]

So realistic battleship?

[Black]

So realistic battleship?

Not quite. I'd like to have something like that but making a turn based system for attacks wouldn't work well with the current war system. This is more of serving as an Admiral and working out fleet formations and strategies. The ships will determine their targets themselves.

[Conner Temple]

Not quite. I'd like to have something like that but making a turn based system for attacks wouldn't work well with the current war system. This is more of serving as an Admiral and working out fleet formations and strategies. The ships will determine their targets themselves.

So a realistic battleship with AI targeting?

[Black]

So a realistic battleship with AI targeting?

Pretty much yes.

[Conner Temple]

Pretty much yes.

+1

[Jodo]

No.

 

While this sounds sweet as !@#$, it is also complicated and therefore not worth it. This is a browser game not World of Warships.

[Prefontaine]

Here's a tip before you put in all the effort to make a suggestion this complex/long again. Put the general idea out there and get feedback/support. Then grow the idea as a group. Dropping it all with numbers and everything right off the bat just makes it doomed to fail. 

[Valakias]

I would love for our entire war system to be like that, with placement of different troops and whatnot. I would like this if it didn't do only ships, but the entire war sysem ( imagine different tanks types or soldier groups ). Man, that would make wars interesting

[Black]

I would love for our entire war system to be like that, with placement of different troops and whatnot. I would like this if it didn't do only ships, but the entire war sysem ( imagine different tanks types or soldier groups ). Man, that would make wars interesting

If enough people are interested in this idea I have some rough concepts made for a similar system for Armored fighting vehicles, infantry battalions and planes. This is itself is a fairly rough idea since the balance is probably way off somewhere. It's just here to see if there's enough interest to warrant further development. 

[ELPINCHAZO]

NO.

 

please stop.

[vonnorman]

I only agree with ONE of the proposed changes. Ships need to take (a relatively small percentage of) aircraft with them in battles. Airstrike upon someones ships you lose some aircraft in the process due to the ships shooting back.

Edit: really everything needs to be able to fight back a little bit. Someone with complete dominance (maybe even your typical raider) will still lose planes even when attacking troops

Edited November 4, 2015 by vonnorman

[BeachBunny]

I only agree with ONE of the proposed changes. Ships need to take (a relatively small percentage of) aircraft with them in battles. Airstrike upon someones ships you lose some aircraft in the process due to the ships shooting back.

Edit: really everything needs to be able to fight back a little bit. Someone with complete dominance (maybe even your typical raider) will still lose planes even when attacking troops

 

Ya cuz f15's are shot out of the sky by small arms fire

[Hiroshima]

Ya cuz f15's are shot out of the sky by small arms fire

Land to air missiles and anti-air guns exist and are operated by infantry.

[Wayne]

Ya cuz f15's are shot out of the sky by small arms fire

 

 

These guys beg to differ...

[Pax]

Ya cuz f15's are shot out of the sky by small arms fire

There are these things called anti-aircraft weapons.

[BeachBunny]

There are these things called anti-aircraft weapons.

Yes which are primarily used on things such as helicopters not god damn jets.

[BeachBunny]

No?

Maybe read to were my argument started young padawan. It started when someone said Infantry should be able to kill some planes.

[BeachBunny]

Still no?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIM-92_Stinger

Very unlikely. 

[Hooves]

This suggestion is pretty sick, but as others said. It's a lot of info dump at the start, and really complicated to put.

[BeachBunny]

Do I have to give you a list of all the planes shot down with a Stinger specifically?

Good luck.

[Conner Temple]

Anything that is used to fight can be disabled or destroyed one way or another.