[DOW] - Foreign Agent Detected

[Charlie Wilhumt]

I'd say he's toxic but he already named himself that. At least the trash properly labels itself.

[Pika]

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

You see, Toxic, if you had been in the room while the sphere was forming, you'd recall I was also there. You base your argument in witnessing things you did not witness, and it shows because you're trying to say that something that did not happen, happened. Again, where are the people that actually were in this chat? You certainly were not.
You also don't really know the timeline of when we were in these discussions with TKR. We started seriously thinking about signing ODOO after the bloc was formed and we were in the peripherals chat. But again, we had no intention of spreading OPSEC, and we never did. 

So before I get to both of the points you've made, let me quickly summarize where we are:

1. You have baselessly claimed that we stole OPSEC for TKR despite us vehemently denying it.
2. When I asked for proof (#2 on my first post here), you still have not provided anything, instead making claims that I don't know what I'm talking about since I wasn't in these chats...except, I was, as TSC's FA head.
3. Where is the rest of CIS in these accusations? The only person who has argued this point is you, and you weren't even in the chats when the bloc was being formed. You say that "this sentiment is shared amongst those I talked to," but I have yet to hear it from anyone else in CIS - or even in DB, for that matter.

We gave Singularity our 72-hour notice; we were only tied to Sing at that time. I don't see how there is any issue with our actions there. You may have previously been telling allies the moment you started looking elsewhere, but from my experience in Rose for the past few years, I have yet to see that. We did our due process with the alliance we were tied to; I'm sorry that I didn't feel the need to tell people we weren't allied to that we were moving.

This is news to both me and TKR. I'll say for a third time that I'd love to see where this happened, except for the fact that it didn't.

In summation, you've claimed - without proof - that we stole OPSEC from a chat you were not a part of while claiming I wasn't in a chat I 100% was in. You've claimed that people agree with you, except for the fact that I have not heard anyone else actually come out in support of this. I've asked for evidence, and you have yet to give any. To me, at least, your argument seems to boil down to "TSC was allied to Sing. Now they're allied to TKR. Thus, they must have stolen OPSEC from Sing to give to TKR!"
I'll reiterate a second time that my DMs are open to privately work this out, but I genuinely have no idea what your argument is based in. If you want to share evidence, be my guest. I have yet to see anything to show that we have actually done anything you've claimed we did.

 

[ToxicPepper]

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

You see, Toxic, if you had been in the room while the sphere was forming, you'd recall I was also there. You base your argument in witnessing things you did not witness, and it shows because you're trying to say that something that did not happen, happened. Again, where are the people that actually were in this chat? You certainly were not.

You keep bringing up sphere formation yet it’s completely irrelevant. My argument has nothing to do with the formation of the sphere or being present in the discussions to form the sphere.

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

You also don't really know the timeline of when we were in these discussions with TKR. We started seriously thinking about signing ODOO after the bloc was formed and we were in the peripherals chat. But again, we had no intention of spreading OPSEC, and we never did. 

The peripheries chat you’re mentioning here is exactly the OPSEC chat Roberts had access to. More precisely, it was the sphere leadership chat that you maintained access to while planning a whole new sphere.

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

So before I get to both of the points you've made, let me quickly summarize where we are:

1. You have baselessly claimed that we stole OPSEC for TKR despite us vehemently denying it.
2. When I asked for proof (#2 on my first post here), you still have not provided anything, instead making claims that I don't know what I'm talking about since I wasn't in these chats...except, I was, as TSC's FA head.
3. Where is the rest of CIS in these accusations? The only person who has argued this point is you, and you weren't even in the chats when the bloc was being formed. You say that "this sentiment is shared amongst those I talked to," but I have yet to hear it from anyone else in CIS - or even in DB, for that matter.

Having denied it must mean it didn’t happen. Proof requires log dumping which I do not partake in. I didn’t say you weren’t in the chat, simply that I didn’t recall you were there. I did double check and you were in the chats just didn’t message much. Just because you don’t hear it in public by others doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t shared by others in the sphere. If they want to make it public they can do so themselves.

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

We gave Singularity our 72-hour notice; we were only tied to Sing at that time. I don't see how there is any issue with our actions there. You may have previously been telling allies the moment you started looking elsewhere, but from my experience in Rose for the past few years, I have yet to see that. We did our due process with the alliance we were tied to; I'm sorry that I didn't feel the need to tell people we weren't allied to that we were moving.

My experience is the exact opposite. Usually out of courtesy you tell your allies that you’re planning to look elsewhere, especially when those discussions of another sphere become serious instead you (Roberts) maintained access to our sphere chats, partook in OPSEC discussions and used the intel gained there for your new sphere.

1 hour ago, Solomon Ben-David said:

In summation, you've claimed - without proof - that we stole OPSEC from a chat you were not a part of while claiming I wasn't in a chat I 100% was in. You've claimed that people agree with you, except for the fact that I have not heard anyone else actually come out in support of this. I've asked for evidence, and you have yet to give any. To me, at least, your argument seems to boil down to "TSC was allied to Sing. Now they're allied to TKR. Thus, they must have stolen OPSEC from Sing to give to TKR!"
I'll reiterate a second time that my DMs are open to privately work this out, but I genuinely have no idea what your argument is based in. If you want to share evidence, be my guest. I have yet to see anything to show that we have actually done anything you've claimed we did.

I’m not sure what chat you’re mentioning here but I am referencing the sphere leadership channel where OPSEC discussions took place while you were seriously considering another sphere. I was in those discussions and that channel, as was Roberts, and after checking, as were you. Sure, if you’d like a bit more detail we can discuss in DMs.

[Solomon Ben-David]

5 hours ago, ToxicPepper said:

You keep bringing up sphere formation yet it’s completely irrelevant. My argument has nothing to do with the formation of the sphere or being present in the discussions to form the sphere.

But...it is relevant? I'm confused as to what OPSEC you would be referring to then since we left shortly after CIS formed.

5 hours ago, ToxicPepper said:

The peripheries chat you’re mentioning here is exactly the OPSEC chat Roberts had access to. More precisely, it was the sphere leadership chat that you maintained access to while planning a whole new sphere.

Roberts and the rest of TSC's leaders*, but I see. Though again, we left shortly after, and regardless, we still completely deny doing any sharing of any OPSEC shared in these chats.

5 hours ago, ToxicPepper said:

Having denied it must mean it didn’t happen. Proof requires log dumping which I do not partake in. I didn’t say you weren’t in the chat, simply that I didn’t recall you were there. I did double check and you were in the chats just didn’t message much. Just because you don’t hear it in public by others doesn’t mean the sentiment isn’t shared by others in the sphere. If they want to make it public they can do so themselves.

You weren't there either, though. And the issue is that you're trying to claim that we did something that we didn't do. How am I supposed to prove that we did nothing when...we did nothing? This feels like a lot of hearsay, and while I respect not log dumping, I have yet to see anything that proves we've done anything of this sort.

5 hours ago, ToxicPepper said:

My experience is the exact opposite. Usually out of courtesy you tell your allies that you’re planning to look elsewhere, especially when those discussions of another sphere become serious instead you (Roberts) maintained access to our sphere chats, partook in OPSEC discussions and used the intel gained there for your new sphere.

I'm surprised your experience is the opposite because it doesn't seem to be the norm. I mean, TFP got hit in 24hr because they told Eclipse they were looking elsewhere, that's a pretty good indicator that bad things can happen if you tell folks your plans before everything's settled.
Once House was locked in, we gave our 72hr, which seems to be standard process. Before that, it wasn't fully certain to us that we would move, so I'm not sure that it would be useful to let people know that we were looking elsewhere and then decide to stay, since that immediately sows mistrust. And again, I don't know what intel we used in House since...we didn't do anything of the sort.

TLDR: Again, we didn't do what you have claimed.

NOTE: I'm gonna note here that TP and I have started up a private line of communication here, I just wanted to quickly respond to this to clear the air. We're both working towards a solution and sorting this out. I very much appreciate TP for coming to me outside of rhetoric on the forums so we can get to the bottom of how this misunderstanding began.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Solomon Ben-David

[naTia]

The tea in this thread is so good I forgot there was a war

[Ayayay]

Don't listen to Logistics and Umar! From day 1 the sword cats has been dedicated to the destruction of all things cis! We oppose on fundamental grounds all cis related activities and the existence of cis is a direct attack on our principles! The fact that our government is nearly entirely staffed by cis males is merely advanced trickery on our part and- hold on-
Wait what's that?
A different cis?
Confederacy of Independent Systems? 
Oh, okay, I see.

There apparently has been a gross misunderstanding of the situation on my part, go back to arguing about whatever this "CIS" is.

Edited May 19, 2024 by Ayayay

[KindaEpicMoah]

11 minutes ago, Ayayay said:

Don't listen to Logistics and Umar! From day 1 the sword cats has been dedicated to the destruction of all things cis! We oppose on fundamental grounds all cis related activities and the existence of cis is a direct attack on our principles! The fact that our government is nearly entirely staffed by cis males is merely advanced trickery on our part and- hold on-
Wait what's that?
A different cis?
Confederacy of Independent Systems? 
Oh, okay, I see.

There apparently has been a gross misunderstanding of the situation on my part, go back to arguing about whatever this "CIS" is.

What not playing Empire at War for 5 minutes does to a mf

[Ayayay]

17 minutes ago, KindaEpicMoah said:

What not playing Empire at War for 5 minutes does to a mf

we should play again so that i can roll you and cino somewhere at least

[KindaEpicMoah]

23 minutes ago, Ayayay said:

we should play again so that i can roll you and cino somewhere at least

Nuh uh

[SleepingNinja]

That games mid, play the old school Battlefront 2 instead. 

[Ayayay]

29 minutes ago, SleepingNinja said:

That games mid, play the old school Battlefront 2 instead. 

that's like saying starcraft 2 is mid go play call of duty they are completely different games in completely different genres

[Dopes]

10 minutes ago, Ayayay said:

that's like saying starcraft 2 is mid go play call of duty they are completely different games in completely different genres

Starcraft 1 is superior. You need more pylons.

[SleepingNinja]

1 hour ago, Dopes said:

Starcraft 1 is superior. You need more pylons.

I was going to say this but clearly I don't check the forums fast enough. Also Starcraft 2 IS mid, that's why Broodwar is superior lmao.