New India Issues Here

[Jodo]

Well, since you have New India as a member even while knowing the international response to him... can you blame everyone for pretty much assuming you have zero leadership? I'm honestly surprised your whole alliance hasn't been invaded.

 

That is how much people hate him, and by proxy you for allowing him to join.

[Paul Warburg]

That's exactly what I'm trying to fix. He brings more than you realize and is not expendable. I will not say how because that's going to expose more than what's needed. First off, I'll need to know damages done to alliance banks from aggression on his part

[Grillick]

I don't understand the problem. I think Aamir is awesome.

[Doom]

Less known, the better last time I checked. No reason why you need to know about our defense mechanisms government position or not. I created the alliance officially. How am I not the leader? I'm simply just doing my original job. Someone has to solve this one particular issue. So, it seems like we are basically saying ICE has a lack of leadership rather than the original topic at hand. 

When an alliance claims it's IF is gonna handle something the FA should, then it shows that he cant handle the job. Also, the MoD is part of the government. There is no denying it.

[Greene]

Alright, Ultra, let me try and break this down for you into slightly more easy to understand words. Normally, and by normally I mean every other alliance that has any legitimacy on the world stage, makes their entire government public. Additionally, in pretty much every alliance, it is the accepted norm that the Minister of Internal Affairs (substitute your title) handles internal matters, like processing new members, maybe handling recruitment, getting your guys active. The exact role changes depending on which alliance you're in and how they structure themselves. The Minister of Foreign Affairs (again, substitute your title) is the chief Diplomat of the alliance. This is the person that you send to diffuse crisis with other alliances, and to handle anything that you would want to be resolved peacefully. Now, the Minister of Defen(c/s)e is the person who, in a normal alliance at least, reaches out to other alliances when a member is attacked, or, is the primary point of contact when one of their members is being attacked. Ergo, this is someone everyone should know.

 

In the CU we do things differently, I'll admit. There is a single person that handles all interactions with other alliances, and that's me as the leader. It makes me ultimately accountable to the public to represent my members and my alliance, and ultimately accountable to my members, to represent our standing and our alliance situation to them. Within the alliance, Tomoya oversees one of our finance programs, and Joshua Granger, while technically in an advisory capacity, is also helping to keep track of who in the alliance is warring who, and making sure to bring to my attention so I can go seek reparations. It looks to me like you're trying to do something similar to what the CU has. I get that, but in that case, you still need to make clear who has what authority. When you have two "leaders" then it is a legitimate conclusion that you both have equal authority, and that you both communicate with each other and relay the concerns brought to each other.

 

If you are in fact the leader, then my recommendation would be to make that clear by removing your "IA" title and instead transitioning to a title that signifies your ultimate representation and leadership of your alliance. Just my thoughts here.

[Fox Fire]

Less known, the better last time I checked. No reason why you need to know about our defense mechanisms government position or not. I created the alliance officially. How am I not the leader? I'm simply just doing my original job. Someone has to solve this one particular issue. So, it seems like we are basically saying ICE has a lack of leadership rather than the original topic at hand. 

Your minister of defense is not a defense mechanism. It's a government position and official representative of your alliance. The reason the public should know about it is for convenience sake. Say that one of your members attacks me, so I get on IRC and try to find you. Oh! You're not there. My next option would immediately be to find you're MoD and discuss it with him. 

Divulging your government positions is something that every alliance, everywhere, ever made does because it's not only convenient, but also expected and gives people an idea of who is calling the shots in your alliance, thus giving us a way of guaging our/your political stance and opinion of you.

In no way does divulging your alliance positions compromise your security in any shape or form. Hiding it, just makes people think you're a complete idiot. But I'm actually going to go off on a limb here and simply assume that you actually don't have an MoD and are a noob.

[Paul Warburg]

I have no interest in trying to replicate how this alliance does that or that alliance doing this. No interest. But there does need some better communication. Once you wrap your mind around that, its easy to understand how issues like this rise.

 

As for your MoD reasoning to be made public, that's going to get sorted out. The person you contact is not the same person to conduct the wars. 

[Greene]

Fun story, Ultra, but according to this post, Morgan Fraser is actually President, which I guess would make you Vice President simply because you're also a leader? Maybe? And ah, General Amston is your MoD. Also, I did read that for a brief period of time, Aamir was actually your Finance person, although, thankfully that seems to have ended.

[Fox Fire]

I have no interest in trying to replicate how this alliance does that or that alliance doing this. No interest. But there does need some better communication. Once you wrap your mind around that, its easy to understand how issues like this rise.

 

As for your MoD reasoning to be made public, that's going to get sorted out. The person you contact is not the same person to conduct the wars. 

And why not? If the issue relates to war, I would want to speak with the person who has authority over that shit.

Jesus, dude. I thought you're alliance was shit, but this is simply beyond all comprehension.

 

>Cant figure out who the alliance leader is

>Wont divulge govt positions

>Says MoD has nothing to do with handling raids

>Doesn't see that actual problem with his alliance

>Is surprised that people actually attack his alliance for raiding

 

I'm going to tell you something that I have told countless people countless times before:

You should consider joining an actual alliance and learning how it all works before trying to make your own.

[Georgi Stomana]

How... how is Mod NOT a government position? Like... my mind is blown right now.

He could be saying that their Ministry of Defense is part of their military, not government.

[Doom]

He could be saying that their Ministry of Defense is part of their military, not government.

The thing is, MoD is a government position by dentition.

[Fox Fire]

He could be saying that their Ministry of Defense is part of their military, not government.

I thought every nation in the alliance was the military?

A Minister....

Know what? I'll let wiki do the talking:

 

The title Defense minister, Minister for Defense, Secretary of Defense, Secretary of State for Defence, Secretary of National Defense or some similar variation, is assigned to the person in a cabinet position in charge of a Ministry of Defence, which regulates the armed forces in sovereign states. The role of a defence minister varies considerably from country to country; in some the minister is only in charge of general budget matters and procurement of equipment; while in others the minister is also, in addition, an integral part of the operational military chain of command.

A cabinet is a body of high-ranking state officials, typically consisting of the top leaders of the executive branch, usually called ministers or some other title.

The functions of a cabinet are varied: in some countries it is a collegial decision-making body with collective responsibility, while in others it may function as a purely advisory body to a decision making head of state or head of government. In some countries, the cabinet is named "Council of Ministers" or "Government". These countries may differ in the way that the cabinet is used or established.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Fox Fire

[Georgi Stomana]

I'm saying that as an alliance they can define it however they wish. If MoD isn't a government position in their alliance it isn't, you don't get to define it.

 

You don't see a point in letting the public know who your government is?

It's official. You're alliance is !@#$.

And you do not see the problem with calling another alliance an expletive publicly? If this person and his alliance are bad at diplomacy, you are far worse.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Georgi Stomana

[ooohu]

As the saying goes "when your a hammer everything looks like a nail." This is why I never I never let my MoD or war department within 1000 feet of dealing with another alliance... because it's one thing to conduct wars and entirely something else to conduct diplomacy. So I don't think Ultra's off base in separating the two at all, the FA department exists for these events and the war department exists for moments when diplomacy fails to be heard and force is needed to make the message clearer.

 

That said this thread is going wrong for other reasons and all I've gotta say is none of them are particularly flattering. Good luck sorting your house ICE.

[Fox Fire]

I'm saying that as an alliance they can define it however they wish. If MoD isn't a government position in their alliance it isn't, you don't get to define it.

We don't have to define it. It has it's own definition that exists universally. I can call a donkey a horse, but does that make it a horse?

Edited December 9, 2014 by Fox Fire

[Georgi Stomana]

We don't have to define it. It has it's own definition that exists universally. I can call a donkey a horse, but does that make it a horse?

Bad comparison, an alliance can exist where the Minister of Defense has no seat/position in the government, but is simply an appointed military position.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Georgi Stomana

[Paul Warburg]

He could be saying that their Ministry of Defense is part of their military, not government.

Exactly. Few people here get what its being structured.

 

Representatives(or whatever the final name for the officer is) is the person you will need to seek out on irc.

 

If you have been raided by New India, let me know. I'll try my best to get reparations started

[Fox Fire]

Exactly. Few people here get what its being structured.

 

Representatives(or whatever the final name for the officer is) is the person you will need to seek out on irc.

 

If you have been raided by New India, let me know. I'll try my best to get reparations started

And the MoD, still, is a representative.

But so long as you don't divulge your alliance positions (not that you can because you can't even decide who your leader is), your alliance will remain on my embargo list, I will not respect your territorial sovereignty or recognize your alliance as legitimate. 

And that is the official Foxburo stance on whatever this thing is.

[Doom]

And the MoD, still, is a representative.

But so long as you don't divulge your alliance positions (not that you can because you can't even decide who your leader is), your alliance will remain on my embargo list, I will not respect your territorial sovereignty or recognize your alliance as legitimate. 

And that is the official Foxburo stance on whatever this thing is.

And I support this embargo.

[Jodo]

 

I can't handle this thread. I'll sort it out with bullets later. I'm out.

[Shellhound]

Can we get this stickied so future generations of young orbisites can learn what not to do when they go off on their own?

[Sol Farmer]

 

I can't handle this thread. I'll sort it out with bullets later. I'm out.

Oh good gourd this is truly one of my favorite all time gifs. Mind blown.

[Destroyer]

Guys i think he must be given a chance to realize his mistake. Everybody should be

[Keegoz]

I'm surprised this thread got this much attention, are we really this bored that we all have to jump on a 7 man alliance that is destined to fail? I mean Ultra clearly doesn't want to learn or change so let him screw it up. I really couldn't give a damn, what I do care about is how shitty the threads are in this section at the moment so stop giving them attention.

[Pwnius Scrubius]

https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9778

 

This guy should also be taken care of please. Unless ICE is at some sort of weird, limited war with SI