Popular Post Majima Goro Posted April 29, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 29, 2020 It was recently brought to my notice that there are a few flaws in the spying system that needs to be addressed. Recently, on both the test server and the real server, I did some testing on spy ops. The experiment was: Trying to kill spies of someone with 0 spies. 4 ops were done by me and a few by other people. I would like to point out I was on covert for all these ops. At first, we did a tentative spy check using the spy odds and estimated the target had 2 or less spies. After this, we did a spy op to gather intelligence. The op confirmed the target indeed had 0 spies. We then tried to kill spies of the person. The parameters were: Extremely Covert and All spies used. Operation was : Assassinate Spies. The result said: You were unable to assassinate spies in X. Your agents were caught and identified by X's counter-intelligence forces. The operation cost you $Y and 6 of your spies were captured and executed. Save this information somewhere safe; after you leave this page you will not be able to see this intelligence report again without executing another operation. Results: Yes, we lost spies trying to kill spies on someone with zero spies. I talked to dTC Justice of Oblivion and according to him, there is a very slight chance of this happening. So I thought it was ill-luck. But we decided to try this again. This time too, we lost spies. I reported this to Alex, and he said I just had an extra bad day. Maybe he was true. But, we did a third op, just to be sure and not surprisingly, lost spies again. Mind you, the target still had zero spies. We tried this on the test server. Next up, we even tried this on the real server and faced similar results. After facing the same results multiple times, we decided that this isn't happening on a fluke. There must be something else going on. We made a ticket in discord and reported our findings to Alex. This is what Alex had to say: Basically, the current coding of the spy system means if you fail an op, you will lose spies. In this case, the number of opponent spies isn't a variable. You will always lose spies, even if target has 0 spies. This is an issue that needs to be addressed at the latest. The suggestion I am putting forward is: Rewrite the spy code so that if opponent has 0 spies, an op to kill their spies will always fail but: 1) The op must remain undetected or have a very low chance of detection. 2) The nation doing the op shouldn't lose spies or the chances of something like this happening must be extremely low. 1 1 4 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artifex Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Sheep Code tm Quote Love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtc justice Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Except there is also the part of the code where you fail to kill spies but you're undetected, and that happens a fair bit on targets that are above 0. I don't see why Alex is saying you always lose spies when you fail an op, that's far from the truth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majima Goro Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 minute ago, dtc justice said: Except there is also the part of the code where you fail to kill spies but you're undetected, and that happens a fair bit on targets that are above 0. I don't see why Alex is saying you always lose spies when you fail an op, that's far from the truth. I am aware of that too But I've done 4 to 5 consecutive ops with me losing spies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtc justice Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, AntMan said: I am aware of that too But I've done 4 to 5 consecutive ops with me losing spies. Then the test server spy code has a bug in it, or sheepy has over looked something and is unaware of it. I can pull up many examples of an unsuccessful spy op with 0 casualties, whether it's spying Intel, spies, planes etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majima Goro Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, dtc justice said: Then the test server spy code has a bug in it, or sheepy has over looked something and is unaware of it. I can pull up many examples of an unsuccessful spy op with 0 casualties, whether it's spying Intel, spies, planes etc. I am not saying you are wrong. But this has happened to me on test as well as live server. I would like to test this more on the live server. But without unlimited spies or unlimited money, this is impossible to test it a fair bit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossiya Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) My only concern with implementing changes to fix this "bug" is that that's going to further strengthen offensive spying, which is something which in my opinion needs balancing in the other direction. Edited April 29, 2020 by Rossiya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Turgidson Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 How about just not trying to kill spies when your opponent has none to kill? Just sayin' 1 Quote Are you originally from Earth, too? Proud owner of Harry's goat. It's mine now. I now own MinesomeMC's goat, too. It's starting to look like a herd. Yep, it is a herd. Aldwulf has added his goat, too, and it ain't Irish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeeeet Ronny D Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I kinda like people losing spies when they try to kill spies on a nation with 0 spies. if your espionage is so bad that you are trying to kill something a nation has 0 of, you deserve to take a hit. I say smart feature, not a bug! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted April 29, 2020 Administrators Share Posted April 29, 2020 There are two factors in espionage operations: Success / Failure Caught / Not Caught If you attempt an espionage operation to kill spies of someone who has 0 spies (same if you try to destroy someone's last missile or nuke that they created that day) you have a 100% chance of Failure, and very high chance of being caught (anywhere from 60%-100% chance of being caught, depending on your odds of succeeding the operation in the first place.) You always lose spies if you're caught in the operation, so I was incorrect when I stated before that you always lose spies when you fail an operation. In this particular instance though (killing spies of someone who has no spies) you are very likely to both Fail and be Caught. Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtc justice Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 23 hours ago, Alex said: There are two factors in espionage operations: Success / Failure Caught / Not Caught If you attempt an espionage operation to kill spies of someone who has 0 spies (same if you try to destroy someone's last missile or nuke that they created that day) you have a 100% chance of Failure, and very high chance of being caught (anywhere from 60%-100% chance of being caught, depending on your odds of succeeding the operation in the first place.) You always lose spies if you're caught in the operation, so I was incorrect when I stated before that you always lose spies when you fail an operation. In this particular instance though (killing spies of someone who has no spies) you are very likely to both Fail and be Caught. Technically, if your enemy has low spies and you use 1 spy to do an Intel, and you fail the intel and get detected, you usually lose 0. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majima Goro Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 2 hours ago, dtc justice said: Technically, if your enemy has low spies and you use 1 spy to do an Intel, and you fail the intel and get detected, you usually lose 0. The number of spies you lose in a failed op is generally 10% from experience. Hence 10% of 1 is 0.1, rounded to 0 Basically, if you use less than 5 spies, you have low chances of losing spies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firwof Kromwell Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 So this is the smart AntMan that MC was talking about. Wish I'd see this more man often... Quote I personally voice my own thought processes based on own desires of informational curiosity as well love for discussion based on questions & statements I made rather just trusting info like a collective hivemind Onlookers whom hop aboard the brainless bandwagon refusing inter-articulation based on assumed feelings, go give yo balls a tug ya tit fugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapsie Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Imagine going to someone's country to kill spies that have none, and then you are mad you got caught my the military or police sneaking about government buildings. But it should have a higher chance of just escaping instead of straight up dying. Quote We have seized the means of production. Though union, and self-governance, we have organized between all peoples of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Epi Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 1 Edited February 18, 2021 by Epi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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