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Rozalia

"True" Islam

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I'm a member of the working class by any measure. Unless being liberal and educated excludes me- again I think you're generalising this idea that a majority of working class people think like you. Guess what, they don't.

 

 

You're just a Naziophobe and a bigot. 

Generalizing an entire group like that is wrong. 

 

I'm guessing you think most KKK members were also stand up guys.

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I have an issue with criminals and not people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

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I'm a member of the working class by any measure. Unless being liberal and educated excludes me- again I think you're generalising this idea that a majority of working class people think like you. Guess what, they don't.

 

 

 

I'm guessing you think most KKK members were also stand up guys.

The KKK were simply a bunch of people endorsing the Christian principles held within the Bible and common feeling at the time. Only a few nutjobs actually went out and killed people.

 

But we can't expect a Tony Blair supporting Labour voter to understand that. 

Edited by Nationalist

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Things I have learned in this thread:

 

>Islam is evil.

>Nazis are good people.

>Naziphobe is a word.

 

Well..... This was very educational....

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You're just a Naziophobe and a bigot. 

Generalizing an entire group like that is wrong.

 

Thats what people dont get. It works both ways. If generalizations arent allowed to be made against one group then the same rules should apply to every group without restriction. Instead there is some kind of double standard being pushed such as rediculous things like "christians hate gays so christianity is stupid" or "since over a century ago when slaves were a thing, america still needs to appologize and bend over backwards for slavery"

 

Maybe these are not the views of people arguing in this thread, although these are key viewpoints in the typical modern liberal idealogy. You can not have a rational debate with people who do not think rationally. They are so focused on taking the moral highroad that they don't realize that the base of their entire argument could be a double standard.

 

Im not one to go "yay nazis", but im willing to bet there were more germans pledging allegiance to hitler out of fear for their families and lives than there were that actually believed in his agenda. The nazi police force was actually quite small in comparison to the size of their army, many of them were forced into service. Whether you can say "they still shouldnt have done it!" Or not is irrelevant unless you have been in that situation.

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Im not one to go "yay nazis", but im willing to bet there were more germans pledging allegiance to hitler out of fear for their families and lives than there were that actually believed in his agenda. The nazi police force was actually quite small in comparison to the size of their army, many of them were forced into service. Whether you can say "they still shouldnt have done it!" Or not is irrelevant unless you have been in that situation.

Does anyone know what happens to Muslims who leave Islam? 

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Does anyone know what happens to Muslims who leave Islam? 

But systematically murdering millions of people was OK.....  :rolleyes:

 

You're such a hypocrite. You legitimately sit here and defend the Nazi ideology while calling Islam evil? You call accuse people of being bigoted while spewing bigotry? GTFO.

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But systematically murdering millions of people was OK.....  :rolleyes:

 

You're such a hypocrite. You legitimately sit here and defend the Nazi ideology while calling Islam evil? You call accuse people of being bigoted while spewing bigotry? GTFO.

No, I called some Nazi's extremists, very nasty people. That's me condemning Nazi extremists who did bad things. 

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No, I called some Nazi's extremists, very nasty people. That's me condemning Nazi extremists who did bad things. 

Nazism is an extremist ideology. Thus the Nazis were extremist. Whether you physically took part in the slaughter of Jews or not, if you were a Nazi you were an extremist. You supported the idea of ethnic cleansing, racial purity and imperialism. 

 

By your logic, not all ISIS members are bad. Most of them are good people.....

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I'm a member of the working class by any measure. Unless being liberal and educated excludes me- again I think you're generalising this idea that a majority of working class people think like you. Guess what, they don't.

 

So two blatant lies called out on and you just ignore it and move on? Be a good sport dear. 

 

You've misconstrued it as usual purposely to make out that I have claimed everyone has my views. What I said was very simply that the people you look down on, that is the people concerned about mass immigration, globalisation, and other things you love so much, have concerns and they deserve to be able to speak, to be heard, and to have their concerns addressed. Pretending such people don't exist is not only foolish as it makes those people more staunch and in cases extreme in their views, but contradicts what you've said several times before, the so called "people in the pub". You know in Britain many of the people going for UKIP over Labour because Labour for years has looked down on them and ignored their concerns.

 

Now what is true in regards to the majority not agreeing with something is with you New Labour types. What was it? 4% the Blairite managed to get against Corbyn even with several months of constant attacks by the media on him? Pathetic. Yes I am aware the election is not necessarily reflective of the public at large, no need to try and hit me with that "zinger". 

 

Does anyone know what happens to Muslims who leave Islam?

 

Spite and company will want you to know that Apostates are bad people who offend Muslims and should move far away from Muslims to not be killed. If they are killed then it's their fault for hurting the feelings of the Muslims for choosing to change their faith. Also... you're a damn racist for talking about apostasy, don't you know how sensitive they are about that? So no we won't talk about this issue because you're a racist, xenophobe, and if we attack you often enough then people will forget about the matter.

 

<Sad I have to say this, but mods, the above was sarcasm obviously>

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Nazism is an extremist ideology. Thus the Nazis were extremist. Whether you physically took part in the slaughter of Jews or not, if you were a Nazi you were an extremist. You supported the idea of ethnic cleansing, racial purity and imperialism. 

 

By your logic, not all ISIS members are bad. Most of them are good people.....

Its really an ignorant view that it is/was an extremist ideology, yes extremists took Nazism way too literal but they do not represent all of the Nazi's. They were only a minority. 

What are the Nazi's suppose to do? condemn the activities of a minority of extremists who use Nazism wrongly? I dare say those extremists are not real Nazi's. 

 

Well I'm not sure what ISIS values are so I can't comment, but as long as they're aren't doing bad things then they're fine. If a few extremists in ISIS are causing issues for the rest of ISIS then that is certainly a problem and hopefully ISIS can fix. 

Edited by Clarke

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Its really an ignorant view that it is/was an extremist ideology, yes extremists took Nazism way too literal but they do not represent all of the Nazi's. They were only a minority. 

What are the Nazi's suppose to do? condemn the activities of a minority of extremists who use Nazism wrongly? I dare say those extremists are not real Nazi's. 

 

Well I'm not sure what ISIS values are so I can't comment, but as long as they're aren't doing bad things then they're fine. If a few extremists in ISIS are causing issues for the rest of ISIS then that is certainly a problem and hopefully ISIS can fix. 

You realize that we're talking about 8.5 million people by 1945, right? I mean not 1938 or something, but 1945. You realize that these people rose to power on platforms of racism and aggression under a militant style, right? The Nazis weren't out trying to stop people from harassing Jews, drive them out of the country and eventually lock them up and kill them. They were the ones doing it and promoting it. They were the ones living next to a Jewish ghetto and feeling proud to be German. 

What you say about ISIS is kinda funny. First off, you're accusing Islam of being evil but Nazism of being OK. Now you're (sarcastically I hope), saying that ISIS should stop people from being extremist..... Hmm.... I wonder why the Nazis didn't try stopping people from being extremist? I would imagine, and this is just a guess here, that it could possibly have something to do with the fact that Nazism is extreme, just like Wahhabism. 

 

But yeah, I see you're point. There is nothing wrong with Nazism, except for the fundamental idea. 

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You realize that we're talking about 8.5 million people by 1945, right? I mean not 1938 or something, but 1945. You realize that these people rose to power on platforms of racism and aggression under a militant style, right? The Nazis weren't out trying to stop people from harassing Jews, drive them out of the country and eventually lock them up and kill them. They were the ones doing it and promoting it. They were the ones living next to a Jewish ghetto and feeling proud to be German. 

What you say about ISIS is kinda funny. First off, you're accusing Islam of being evil but Nazism of being OK. Now you're (sarcastically I hope), saying that ISIS should stop people from being extremist..... Hmm.... I wonder why the Nazis didn't try stopping people from being extremist? I would imagine, and this is just a guess here, that it could possibly have something to do with the fact that Nazism is extreme, just like Wahhabism. 

 

But yeah, I see you're point. There is nothing wrong with Nazism, except for the fundamental idea. 

Just as there is nothing wrong with Islam except for the fundamental idea. 

Nazism and Islam is the same, both very peaceful except for the extremists. 

Edited by Clarke

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You realize that these people rose to power on platforms of racism and aggression under a militant style, right?

You mean like Sharia law, which a large percentage of muslims want to live under?

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You mean like Sharia law, which a large percentage of muslims want to live under?

 

No racism or unwarranted aggression in Sharia Law.

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No racism or unwarranted aggression in Sharia Law.

Only being able to narry another muslim isn't racist?

 

Punishment of death for Apostasy isn't unwarranted aggression?

 

Hoe about women who fornicate outside of marriage getting 100 lashes? Does that sound like a good time?

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Only being able to narry another muslim isn't racist?

 

Punishment of death for Apostasy isn't unwarranted aggression?

 

Hoe about women who fornicate outside of marriage getting 100 lashes? Does that sound like a good time?

To be fair, I don't see how woman who have sex and cheat outside of marriage should be given any sympathy. 

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To be fair, I don't see how woman who have sex and cheat outside of marriage should be given any sympathy. 

ya but you shouldn't kill/beat anyone for it

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You're just a Naziophobe and a bigot.

Generalizing an entire group like that is wrong.

Correct. If there's a member of the nazi party sitting at home while a gang of nazis beat jews, he should not be punished for their crime. That's generally how the law works.

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Only being able to narry another muslim isn't racist?

 

No. Islam is a religion not a race and Muslim men are allowed to marry Christians/Jews.

 

Punishment of death for Apostasy isn't unwarranted aggression?

 

No, it isn't, because nobody compelled them to accept Islam in the first place. So somebody choosing to accept it of their own free will and then leaving, is similar to high treason - the traditional punishment for which has always been death in almost every country.

 

Hoe about women who fornicate outside of marriage getting 100 lashes? Does that sound like a good time?

 

No.

- A person who is not married and has sex gets 100 lashes regardless of whether he or she is male or female.

 

- A person who is married and has sex with someone who is not their spouse get's stoned to death regardless of whether he or she is male or female.

 

This is the law of Allah. We support it as Muslims and are very happy with it.  :)

Edited by Moreau III

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No. Islam is a religion not a race and Muslim men are allowed to marry Christians/Jews.

 

So what you're saying is he's wrong. It's not racist. It's racist and sexist.

 

donald-trump-poll-accuracy.gif

 

Racist because lets be honest here, how Islam operates is to try to keep Arabs following it and with the restriction "Arab women are for Arabs only" it means by the large Arab women aren't going to go outside their race. I've seen some not surprising stories of Arab women with Blacks being heavily looked down upon and ostracized even if the Black man is Muslim. My diagnose is Arab men lack a lot of confidence and have constructed some ideas they've backed up with their religion to stop their women being "taken", keep 'em captive through fear. Just how it goes for those who can't compete I suppose. They're nasty guys. Very dishonest people. Sad!

 

No, it isn't, because nobody compelled them to accept Islam in the first place. So somebody choosing to accept it of their own free will and then leaving, is similar to high treason - the traditional punishment for which has always been death in almost every country.

 

Tell me where you sign up to this "Leave and Die" contract. Many are "cultural Muslims" as some would call them who are "Muslim" simply because their parents are, no reason beyond that. Did they sign that same contract? Heck I'm pretty sure either you or Ibrahim have spoken of the "Muslim at birth" thing so it just sounds even more barmy. Religion is supposed to be a serious matter and how you define being part of it (and then the punishing for those who were likely never really part of it) is childish. It may have made sense back in the age of warlords, but in the modern age it's tribal nonsense.

 

No.

- A person who is not married and has sex gets 100 lashes regardless of whether he or she is male or female.

 

- A person who is married and has sex with someone who is not their spouse get's stoned to death regardless of whether he or she is male or female.

 

This is the law of Allah. We support it as Muslims and are very happy with it.  :)

 

Enlighten us on the differences in testimony that makes women more likely to be punished than men. We know better mate. You'll give half the story but not the other half that changes the light of the matter completely. Common tactic by the Islamic and Liberals alike, no wonder you guys are friends. 

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So what you're saying is he's wrong. It's not racist. It's racist and sexist.

 

donald-trump-poll-accuracy.gif

 

Racist because lets be honest here, how Islam operates is to try to keep Arabs following it and with the restriction "Arab women are for Arabs only" it means by the large Arab women aren't going to go outside their race. I've seen some not surprising stories of Arab women with Blacks being heavily looked down upon and ostracized even if the Black man is Muslim. My diagnose is Arab men lack a lot of confidence and have constructed some ideas they've backed up with their religion to stop their women being "taken", keep 'em captive through fear. Just how it goes for those who can't compete I suppose. They're nasty guys. Very dishonest people. Sad!

 

Islam is the most ethnically diverse religion in the world and most Muslims are not Arabs: Less than 20% of Muslims are Arabs and 10% of Arabs are Christians.

 

 

 

Countries With The Largest Muslim Populations (2009)

 

Country Number of Muslims

Indonesia 203 million

Pakistan 174 million

India 161 million

Bangladesh 145 million

Egypt 79 million

Nigeria 78 million

Turkey 74 million

Algeria 34 million

Morocco 32 million

Iraq 30 million

Sudan 30 million

Afghanistan 28 million

Ethiopia 28 million

Uzbekistan 26 million

Saudi Arabia 25 million

Yemen 23 million

China 22 million

Syria 20 million

Russia 16 million

 

 

 

 

But....

12331859_1680882862127516_1290247771_n.j

 

Tell me where you sign up to this "Leave and Die" contract. Many are "cultural Muslims" as some would call them who are "Muslim" simply because their parents are, no reason beyond that. Did they sign that same contract? Heck I'm pretty sure either you or Ibrahim have spoken of the "Muslim at birth" thing so it just sounds even more barmy. Religion is supposed to be a serious matter and how you define being part of it (and then the punishing for those who were likely never really part of it) is childish. It may have made sense back in the age of warlords, but in the modern age it's tribal nonsense.

 

I was specifically referring to converts.

 

When did anyone choose which country they are born in? If they commit high treason in that country they would still traditionally face the death penalty and this is similar.

 

Enlighten us on the differences in testimony that makes women more likely to be punished than men. We know better mate. You'll give half the story but not the other half that changes the light of the matter completely. Common tactic by the Islamic and Liberals alike, no wonder you guys are friends. 

 

That's simply not the case. The difference in testimony between male and female witnesses has no baring on the guilt (or otherwise) of women and men being tried before a Shariah court, as that ruling applies equally for both defendants. 

Edited by Moreau III

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christianity-graphic-01.png

DN_Muslim_Distribute.png

 

Obviously the religion which is split more evenly into more sections is more diverse. 

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Islam is the most ethnically diverse religion in the world and most Muslims are not Arabs: Less than 20% of the Muslims are Arabs and 10% of Arabs are Christians.

 

 

 

Countries With The Largest Muslim Populations (2009)

 

Country Number of Muslims

Indonesia 203 million

Pakistan 174 million

India 161 million

Bangladesh 145 million

Egypt 79 million

Nigeria 78 million

Iran 74 million

Turkey 74 million

Algeria 34 million

Morocco 32 million

Iraq 30 million

Sudan 30 million

Afghanistan 28 million

Ethiopia 28 million

Uzbekistan 26 million

Saudi Arabia 25 million

Yemen 23 million

China 22 million

Syria 20 million

Russia 16 million

 

 

 

Context, context is everything. Even if you don't admit it we know what it really means to you and many Arab men. Blacks as we know aren't equal to Arabs in the Muslim stakes. 

 

I was specifically referring to the converts. When did anyone choose which country they are born in? If they commit high treason in that country they would still face the death penalty and this is similar.

 

??? 

 

Converts? You mean those who convert under fear of death? Those converts? 

 

You're free to use that angle of yours if you wish but it doesn't actually work. If so then you'd have to agree with me then that all Muslims are traitors to their nations (betrayed them to the "nation" of Islam) and should face the death penalty. Those guys who kill Muslims pretty just in their killings mate? By your logic it seems they're carrying out justice. 

 

That's simply not the case. The difference in testimony between male and female witnesses has no baring on the guilt (or otherwise) of women and men being tried before a Shariah court, as that ruling applies equally for both defendants. 

 

I see what you're doing with that statement as you're clever in these matters but it won't cut the mustard. You're trying to make clear that the sexes are equal before the law but we know that ain't the case. There is a reason women in Muslim countries are fearful to report rape. If such laws are the ones from God then he ain't a very good lawmaker, though with the Demiurge being the god of ignorance I suppose that is little surprise. 

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