Islam for peace

[Kemal Ergenekon]

I do believe that Islam, as written and as practiced, has qualities that make it more violent/oppressive than other common religions.

 

However, if we made a tally of millions of people killed in the past century by country, then looked at which countries belonging to a major belief system had the highest "frag," my guess would be that it would be a tie between Christians (WW1, WW2, American "interventions") and Atheists (USSR, PRC, other commies, Japan).

[Lelouch Vi Britannia]

Islam doesn't want to change and won't change to suite desires of others

Yup, thats why youre SOOO behind on things

Ignore the real message and take tainted beliefs and call them righteous

[Abu Haddad]

Yup, thats why youre SOOO behind on things

Ignore the real message and take tainted beliefs and call them righteous

or change the word of god and lie about our messenger. 

[Rozalia]

Islam doesn't want to change and won't change to suite desires of others

 

And yet it ain't simply the desire of others. Muslims have such desires too but to you they're not Muslims so they apparently don't count... then there are does that think so too but are too scared to say as such. Do you stop and think of that? How Islam as you currently have it has inflicted such fear in people they're too scared to speak? That it ingrains such hate that some will kill people who go against the religion? That not bother you at all? Were it me I'd be ashamed, but if it was me I'd likely be dead, popped off by some Muslim loony. Maybe I'd make the news and some gutless brainless Liberal would sit down and say "well clearly he provoked them which just shows we shouldn't speak out against Muslims, who may I remind you follow the religion of peace".

 

or change the word of god and lie about our messenger.

 

How simple is Muslim theology exactly? The implication seems to be for all their learning they're like children. It's not a matter of changing the word, it's more modernising it for the modern world. A lot of the bad stuff, the really nasty hatred could be easily excluded in such a way that doesn't challenge the "word of god". You look at it and say "well this was something relevant in the violent medieval times, something now completely unneeded as we have moved on. Put down for it was relevant then and Allah in his wisdom knows you'd get rid of it when no longer needed.

 

However clearly the concept of god being an entity that can forward think is madness. After all the Demiurge cannot see the future so all our advancements are just as crazy to him as it'd be for a person of a century ago.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Rozalia

[Captain_Vietnam]

islam is false. the bible is true word of god 

[Moreau]

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. "They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it." (Quran 6:18)

 

I wish to clarify the truth for all you poor confused souls making a scene on this and many other threads:

 

1) Islam is not a religion of peace/pacifism (as the apostate Lelouch Vi Britannia claims).

 

2) Nor is it a religion of war (as Clarke and other disbelievers of his ilk claim).

 

It is a religion of Submission to the will of Allah, and when Allah commands us with something it is not our place to question or change it... the response of the Muslims is always "we hear and we obey".

 

The Quran is meant for All Times and Places. Meaning it's just as relevant today as it was yester-century, and will be just as relevant centuries from now.

 

If Non-Muslims wage war against the Muslims, yes, we are commanded to kill them or crucify them or chop of their hands and feet at opposite angles or exile them from the lands. We make no bones about it, but if they incline towards peace then Muslims are commanded to incline to it also, and Inshallah we will do our best to follow both these commands to the letter.

 

Final point... nobody can be forced to convert, that is expressly forbidden in the Quran. The fact that Jews lived for centuries under Muslim rule and that Christian Arabs exist today in their millions, is a testament to the fact that people where not forced to embrace Islam. Also a quick question for Clarke, what Muslim army was sent to Indonesia (which is the largest Muslim country by population today)?

 

 

Answer,

 

None, Muslim merchants introduced Islam to Indonesia.

 

"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." (Quran 2:256)

 

[Rozalia]

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. "They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will perfect His light, although the disbelievers dislike it." (Quran 6:18)

 

I wish to clarify the truth for all you poor confused souls making a scene on this and many other threads:

 

1) Islam is not a religion of peace/pacifism (as the apostate Lelouch Vi Britannia claims).

 

2) Nor is it a religion of war (as Clarke and other disbelievers of his ilk claim).

 

It is a religion of Submission to the will of Allah, and when Allah commands us with something it is not our place to question or change it... the response of the Muslims is always "we hear and we obey".

 

The Quran is meant for All Times and Places. Meaning it's just as relevant today as it was yester-century, and will be just as relevant centuries from now.

 

If Non-Muslims wage war against the Muslims, yes, we are commanded to kill them or crucify them or chop of their hands and feet at opposite angles or exile them from the lands. We make no bones about it, but if they incline towards peace then Muslims are commanded to incline to it also, and Inshallah we will do our best to follow both these commands to the letter.

 

Final point... nobody can be forced to convert, that is expressly forbidden in the Quran. The fact that Jews lived for centuries under Muslim rule and that Christian Arabs exist today in their millions, is a testament to the fact that people where not forced to embrace Islam. Also a quick question for Clarke, what Muslim army was sent to Indonesia (which is the largest Muslim country by population today)?

 

 

Answer,

 

None, Muslim merchants introduced Islam to Indonesia.

 

"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." (Quran 2:256)

 

 

That why you have to threaten people from leaving Islam? Face it, if Islam didn't ingrain in it's followers to instill the religion in their children and then threaten said children with death if they leave Islam's numbers wouldn't be so hot. Additionally Islam's tolerance has always been a joke. You don't have to join, except all countries conquered by Muslim's had their people suffer terrible injustice and attacks with the solution of "convert" dangled in front of them. The fact some of those people exist to today isn't a testament to how tolerant Islam is, but a testament to how resolute that particular faith is to have resisted so many years of persecution. 

[Moreau]

That why you have to threaten people from leaving Islam? Face it, if Islam didn't ingrain in it's followers to instill the religion in their children and then threaten said children with death if they leave Islam's numbers wouldn't be so hot.

What is the traditional punishment for Treason? You should know this seeing as you're a fervent advocate of nationalism.... that's right, death.

 

Also your argument is self defeating in that this law can only be enforced by the order of a Shariah court in an Islamic State, which is absent in most of the Islamic world today. So if Muslims aren't being threatened with death for leaving, how do you explain Islam's rapid growth? And how do you explain the fact that it's the fastest growing religion by conversions (most of which are women)?

 

Additionally Islam's tolerance has always been a joke. You don't have to join, except all countries conquered by Muslim's had their people suffer terrible injustice and attacks with the solution of "convert" dangled in front of them. The fact some of those people exist to today isn't a testament to how tolerant Islam is, but a testament to how resolute that particular faith is to have resisted so many years of persecution.

The Prophet (saw) said "He who harms a dhimmi (non-Muslims living under Islamic rule) hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah."

 

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.â€

 

So your claim that Muslims abused Non Muslims living amongst them is beyond absurd. On the other hand, whenever Christians conquered any land... all infidels were burned at the stake!

 

The reality is, Islam introduced the concept of religious tolerance to Europe with the conquest of Spain (Muslims, Christians, and Jews all lived under Islamic rule there before the inquisition), as well as technology & science that took Europe out of the dark ages and propelled them into the renaissance.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Moreau III

[Ikhan]

So your claim that Muslims abused Non Muslims living amongst them is beyond absurd. On the other hand, whenever Christians conquered any land... all infidels were burned at the stake!

I beg to differ, while in the middle ages, any non Christian living in states such as Spain were indeed killed, but explain why Tamerlane (who was a muslim) ordered the massacre of much of the preexisting Christian Population in his empire, or the Armenian Genocide, in which much of the Armenian Christian population of the Ottoman Empire were killed or deported. 

[Rozalia]

What is the traditional punishment for Treason? You should know this seeing as you're a fervent advocate of nationalism.... that's right, death.

 

Also your argument is self defeating in that this law can only be enforced by the order of a Shariah court in an Islamic State, which is absent in most of the Islamic world today. So if Muslims aren't being threatened with death for leaving, how do you explain Islam's rapid growth? And how do you explain the fact that it's the fastest growing religion by conversions (most of which are women)?

 

The Prophet (saw) said "He who harms a dhimmi (non-Muslims living under Islamic rule) hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah."

 

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.â€

 

So your claim that Muslims abused Non Muslims living amongst them is beyond absurd. On the other hand, whenever Christians conquered any land... all infidels were burned at the stake!

 

The reality is, Islam introduced the concept of religious tolerance to Europe with the conquest of Spain (Muslims, Christians, and Jews all lived under Islamic rule there before the inquisition), as well as technology & science that took Europe out of the dark ages and propelled them into the renaissance.

 

Oh believe me I can see why you do it. Your religion is political and one with a firm grip, heck I myself am supportive of nationalism that isn't based on race or colour, but destroys cultures so they are firmly of their country and none other, so it's all sort of similar in a way. However we're also at odds and as you'll find my beliefs abhorrent, I'll find yours in return... however that doesn't mean I can't say good job, Islam is truly a "strong" religion I'll say that at least. I can only hope when Nationalism takes hold it becomes as strong itself. 

 

You're simply pleading ignorance on the matter of killings. You say it won't go on because Shariah isn't in force but you know that people either "enforce" Islamic law in their community, or dispense with any of the formalities necessary and kill the apostates regardless thinking themselves just. 

 

So no, they are being threatened. As for women converting it's all quite simple. Islam has a very sexist view for it's followers that men are "conquers" who conquer if they marry a foreigner, or more specific someone of another faith, and part of that is converting her as she must be Muslim for you to marry her (the man if he wants to or not will because he knows he will be labeled an apostate himself if he does not). Muslim women however are encouraged heavily to not be likewise "conquered" so are expected to marry Muslim men, and if they do otherwise then attack them verbally or physically until they don't (so either they break it off or lay in a grave). 

 

With such crude manners backed up by a great deal of fear and violence Islam has kept it's numbers strong. The Liberal Tyranny being limp and flaccid when it comes to minorities lets Islam get away with it of course so Islam will hold such a crude grasp as long as the Liberal Tyranny continues to reign. Once it falls, say to Nationalism, then oh boy is Islamic power going to take a tumble in communities everywhere in that state.

[Abu Haddad]

I beg to differ, while in the middle ages, any non Christian living in states such as Spain were indeed killed, but explain why Tamerlane (who was a muslim) ordered the massacre of much of the preexisting Christian Population in his empire, or the Armenian Genocide, in which much of the Armenian Christian population of the Ottoman Empire were killed or deported. 

Timur followed mongol tradition and merged islam with mogul culture. Muslims complained his army were savages more than civilised conquerors. He killed many muslims as well as in the purge of damascus.

The ottomans weren't muslims and only used it for personal gain. It is haraam to kill the innocent

[Ikhan]

Timur followed mongol tradition and merged islam with mogul culture. Muslims complained his army were savages more than civilised conquerors. He killed many muslims as well as in the purge of damascus.

The ottomans weren't muslims and only used it for personal gain. It is haraam to kill the innocent

thanks for the answer, but I was asking Moreau...

[Moreau]

Oh believe me I can see why you do it. Your religion is political and one with a firm grip, heck I myself am supportive of nationalism that isn't based on race or colour, but destroys cultures so they are firmly of their country and none other, so it's all sort of similar in a way. However we're also at odds and as you'll find my beliefs abhorrent, I'll find yours in return... however that doesn't mean I can't say good job, Islam is truly a "strong" religion I'll say that at least. I can only hope when Nationalism takes hold it becomes as strong itself.

Islam - Sovereignty belongs to Allah.

 

Nationalism - Sovereignty belongs to man (the state).

 

Turn on the news and you will see that we are witnessing the long awaited Islamic revival, the awakening of the Islamic giant from it's slumber! If you were hoping for renewed nationalism to take hold, think again, because Nationalism is officially finished in the Muslim world: The Youth have today resolved to violently throw off the satanic shroud of Nationalism that have been draped over them by the disbelieving French & British.

 

You're simply pleading ignorance on the matter of killings. You say it won't go on because Shariah isn't in force but you know that people either "enforce" Islamic law in their community, or dispense with any of the formalities necessary and kill the apostates regardless thinking themselves just.

The "formalities" you are referring to is seeking the judgement of a Shariah Court. That's not something that can be bypassed: One can't enforce the law, whilst breaking it at the same time.

 

So no, they are being threatened. As for women converting it's all quite simple. Islam has a very sexist view for it's followers that men are "conquers" who conquer if they marry a foreigner, or more specific someone of another faith, and part of that is converting her as she must be Muslim for you to marry her (the man if he wants to or not will because he knows he will be labeled an apostate himself if he does not). Muslim women however are encouraged heavily to not be likewise "conquered" so are expected to marry Muslim men, and if they do otherwise then attack them verbally or physically until they don't (so either they break it off or lay in a grave).

 

With such crude manners backed up by a great deal of fear and violence Islam has kept it's numbers strong. The Liberal Tyranny being limp and flaccid when it comes to minorities lets Islam get away with it of course so Islam will hold such a crude grasp as long as the Liberal Tyranny continues to reign. Once it falls, say to Nationalism, then oh boy is Islamic power going to take a tumble in communities everywhere in that state.

You claim Muslim women are "oppressed" and yet when faced with the fact that hundreds of thousands of American, European, and Australian women are voluntarily embracing Islam every year you claim they are doing it just to marry Muslim men? But do you know Muslim men are actually allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women without them having to convert? I didn't think so.

[Moreau]

thanks for the answer, but I was asking Moreau...

I concur with Abu Haddad's answer.

 

Apart from his false statement about the Ottoman Khilafah.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Moreau III

[Rozalia]

Islam - Sovereignty belongs to Allah.

 

Nationalism - Sovereignty belongs to man (the state).

 

Turn on the news and you will see that we are witnessing the long awaited Islamic revival, the awakening of the Islamic giant from it's slumber! If you were hoping for renewed nationalism to take hold, think again, because Nationalism is officially finished in the Muslim world: The Youth have today resolved to violently throw off the satanic shroud of Nationalism that have been draped over them by the disbelieving French & British.

 

 

The "formalities" you are referring to is seeking the judgement of a Shariah Court. That's not something that can be bypassed: One can't enforce the law, whilst breaking it at the same time.

 

 

You claim Muslim women are "oppressed" and yet when faced with the fact that hundreds of thousands of American, European, and Australian women are voluntarily embracing Islam every year you claim they are doing it just to marry Muslim men? But do you know Muslim men are actually allowed to marry Christian and Jewish women without them having to convert? I didn't think so.

 

Nationalism is the love for your fellow people, while your religion is fear of your own destruction. Nationalism opposes the insidious forces of globalisation, multiculturalism, among others, while your religion is merely a tool of theirs. Nationalism represents an advancement (we've actually regressed sadly, not backwards but diagonally), your religion is something that is from far, very far in the past and should have been discarded already. 

 

Don't talk of casting out what you never really had. Not only that but those Nationalist you did beat you only did because of greed (Nationalism goes against Globalization) so western forces got involved.

 

Again with the runarounds. The violent Muslims who enforce it believe they are enforcing Shariah and so delude themselves into thinking they're bringers of justice, and the "good" Muslims as most label them turn a willing blind eye as they think it just too. 

 

Women who convert like I said do so mostly because of the husbands, others I hear do it for "spirituality" reasons which means they really should have taken up Buddhism or something instead. 

[Moreau]

Nationalism is the love for your fellow people, while your religion is fear of your own destruction. Nationalism opposes the insidious forces of globalisation, multiculturalism, among others, while your religion is merely a tool of theirs. Nationalism represents an advancement (we've actually regressed sadly, not backwards but diagonally), your religion is something that is from far, very far in the past and should have been discarded already.

Nationalism is a satanic religion that idolizes man! An insidious, evil, tool used by the allies of Satan to mislead the masses!

 

Don't talk of casting out what you never really had. Not only that but those Nationalist you did beat you only did because of greed (Nationalism goes against Globalization) so western forces got involved.

If Nationalism wasn't wrongfully imposed on the Muslims by the British and French, then how do you explain the existence of "nation states" in the Muslim world, as opposed to a single global Khilafah (Caliphate)? Exactly. Thankfully they are all beginning to fall like domino's - soon to be replaced by the Khilafah system - and all forms of nationalism will be expunged!

 

Again with the runarounds. The violent Muslims who enforce it believe they are enforcing Shariah and so delude themselves into thinking they're bringers of justice, and the "good" Muslims as most label them turn a willing blind eye as they think it just too.

You are lying about the Muslims. They don't enforce Shariah unless there are Shariah courts set-up in which the guilty can be brought to so they can be tried for their alleged crimes.

 

Women who convert like I said do so mostly because of the husbands, others I hear do it for "spirituality" reasons which means they really should have taken up Buddhism or something instead.

Muslim men are real men... unlike Non-Muslim "men" who are too often alcoholics, druggies, womanisers, clean shaven feminine gay pride attending !@#$s.

 

Whatever the reason they choose to convert: The fact that Non-Muslim western women are choosing to embrace Islam of their own fruition in their hundreds of thousands every year really deals a deathblow to your claim that Muslim women are oppressed doesn't it?

[Rozalia]

Nationalism is a satanic religion that idolizes man! An insidious, evil, tool used by the allies of Satan to mislead the masses!

 

 

If Nationalism wasn't wrongfully imposed on the Muslims by the British and French, then how do you explain the existence of "nation states" in the Muslim world, as opposed to a single global Khilafah (Caliphate)? Exactly. Thankfully they are all beginning to fall like domino's - soon to be replaced by the Khilafah system - and all forms of nationalism will be expunged!

 

 

You are lying about the Muslims. They don't enforce Shariah unless there are Shariah courts set-up in which the guilty can be brought to so they can be tried for their alleged crimes.

 

 

Muslim men are real men... unlike Non-Muslim "men" who are too often alcoholics, druggies, womanisers, clean shaven feminine gay pride attending !@#$s.

 

Whatever the reason they choose to convert: The fact that Non-Muslim western women are choosing to embrace Islam of their own fruition in their hundreds of thousands every year really deals a deathblow to your claim that Muslim women are oppressed doesn't it?

 

Nationalism has the ability to save the people and make them free. Your religion enslaves people (it even admits this) and can not save a single life except for supposedly in the afterlife (and I doubt even there). 

 

It's drawn on the map like a state but they aren't legitimate, they were after all basically drawn up on the back of a !@#$ packet over lunch (joke). Both in history and very importantly in the people's hearts, like you make out, Muslim's due to their faith don't believe in them.

 

You are being purposely ignorant acting as if Muslim thugs who hurt and kill at will don't exist. They're at the point they don't need to wait for a "verdict" they will be judge, jury, and executioner. 

 

??? Uh, no. Beyond that you were the one who brought up women I'm pretty sure unless someone else did. In all honesty I'm very pro-women's rights and don't believe women should be constrained by such silly medieval nonsense like you think. I despise censorship which Islam is heavily for. I can respect and accept my fellow people who swing in a different way, while your type not only scorns such people but you exclude and then kill them.

[K W Jackson]

the !@#$, where's the goddamn evidence!!! These statements are just a bunch of claims dress up as facts!!! Please for god sake, at least, DO RESHERCH!! STOP JUST MAKING CLAIMS!!! I'm open to even bias research.

[K W Jackson]

The ottomans weren't muslims and only used it for personal gain. It is haraam to kill the innocent

!@#$ hypocrite

 

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/10373-socialists-purged/ bet none of them were innocent and just had socialist ideas

 

doesn't matter if it is just roleplaying you support the purging of socialist.

Edited March 17, 2016 by G Wilson

[Clarke]

Look you're not going to convince me you're not trolling. 

 

After Jewish treachery, after they severed the hand that protected them, after they made a river of the blood of Muslims, after they defiled the holy lands: 

Yes now is a time of war with Jews but it's one they initiated. 

Advocating basically death to Jews.

 

What is the traditional punishment for Treason? You should know this seeing as you're a fervent advocate of nationalism.... that's right, death. 

Equating leaving a religion to sabotaging a nations security. Basically supporting killing people who leave Islam.

 

So if Muslims aren't being threatened with death for leaving, how do you explain Islam's rapid growth? 

Islams rapid growth is due to Muslims breeding like rabbits in the middle east and other crappy countries, conversions to Islam is minimal and not noteworthy. 

Sharia courts operate to some degree is most Muslims countries, the threat of death for leaving Islam comes from ones own neighbors and family. 

 

 

The Prophet (saw) said "He who harms a dhimmi (non-Muslims living under Islamic rule) hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys Allah." 

 

The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “He who harms a person under covenant, or charged him more than he can, I will argue against him on the Day of Judgement.â€

 

So your claim that Muslims abused Non Muslims living amongst them is beyond absurd. On the other hand, whenever Christians conquered any land... all infidels were burned at the stake!

 

If this was true about Islam then it wouldn't invaded, oppressed and murdered its way across Africa, Asia, Europe and the Middle East. 

 

The reality is, Islam introduced the concept of religious tolerance to Europe with the conquest of Spain (Muslims, Christians, and Jews all lived under Islamic rule there before the inquisition), as well as technology & science that took Europe out of the dark ages and propelled them into the renaissance.

 

This is breaking it, I know no one can be this stupid.

Not even the dumbest Muslim I talked to spun this absolute shit about Spain, you spun Sweden as well so I'm not totally surprised.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Clarke

[SoS]

If Nationalism wasn't wrongfully imposed on the Muslims by the British and French, then how do you explain the existence of "nation states" in the Muslim world, as opposed to a single global Khilafah (Caliphate)? Exactly. Thankfully they are all beginning to fall like domino's - soon to be replaced by the Khilafah system - and all forms of nationalism will be expunged!

ISIS represent!

 

Focus. Your role is mainstream Muslim. We already hate the extremists.

Edited March 18, 2016 by SoS