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The Great Debate on Atheism

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And, if either statement is true it is also true that God isn't the prime mover.

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Christians: believe in a Creator having made all.

 

Atheists: can't explain the creation of all (can't use The Big Bang Theory to counter this because it doesn't account for why the circumstances leading up to it occurred), but still believe the Universe was created (obviously since we're still here)... Somehow? Atheists still believe in a creation of the Universe, but just not from a Creator.

 

If I could be given clear reasonable facts and science that explained everything I would also likely be an atheist, but to me those two levels of "belief" (rhetorically speaking, not literally) are on the same level, so why not believe in a creator? Is it any more incredulous than believing in a non-creator? Imo no.

 

 

Many theists would say they don't actively go around believing in the existence of a Creator, but instead they just believe that there is a Creator (whether good, bad, or indifferent not being relevant), but that the thought never really enters their mind. 

 

You're still stuck on this belief thing. It's corrosive. You're right, as an atheist I have no explanation for the creation of the universe. This doesn't trouble me. I also don't "believe" in any religious sense in the creation of the universe, I know there's a universe, it's origins being completely incidental to my everyday life.  It doesn't lead me to invent a magic pixie that lives in the sky to fill in the gaps for me or put my faith in any of the pre imagined magic pixies. I just accept that I don't know and that's about it. My world view doesn't require any kind of belief at all.

 

If I was one of the inquisitive people of the world I might build a telescope of a particle accelerator and try to understand the universe and it's origins, but I'm not that inquisitive to be honest, not about the universe and it's origins. If I was though, what I definitely wouldn't do is is read a book that is nothing more than an account of iron age politics.

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You're still stuck on this belief thing. It's corrosive. You're right, as an atheist I have no explanation for the creation of the universe. This doesn't trouble me. I also don't "believe" in any religious sense in the creation of the universe, I know there's a universe, it's origins being completely incidental to my everyday life.  It doesn't lead me to invent a magic pixie that lives in the sky to fill in the gaps for me or put my faith in any of the pre imagined magic pixies. I just accept that I don't know and that's about it. My world view doesn't require any kind of belief at all.

 

If I was one of the inquisitive people of the world I might build a telescope of a particle accelerator and try to understand the universe and it's origins, but I'm not that inquisitive to be honest, not about the universe and it's origins. If I was though, what I definitely wouldn't do is is read a book that is nothing more than an account of iron age politics.

 

Were you not so blatantly opposed to the conception of a deity, I'd nearly say you're agnostic: not caring. But I do find it interesting that while you have no interest in the understanding of the universe's origins you have set aside a distinct view point. 

 

That's a rather odd combination. "There's no way to know what happened but it sure wasn't that". I'm rather surprised I've never come across this view point before.

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Were you not so blatantly opposed to the conception of a deity, I'd nearly say you're agnostic: not caring. But I do find it interesting that while you have no interest in the understanding of the universe's origins you have set aside a distinct view point. 

 

That's a rather odd combination. "There's no way to know what happened but it sure wasn't that". I'm rather surprised I've never come across this view point before.

 

That's because as I said in the last sentence, religion is a definite thing. It's nothing at all to do with the origins of the universe or an after life. It's corporeal, it's politics.

 

When you know what something is, you know what it's not.

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And, if either statement is true it is also true that God isn't the prime mover.

 

Unless (g)God(s) was the entity that was always there or was created from nothing.

 

 

You're still stuck on this belief thing. It's corrosive. You're right, as an atheist I have no explanation for the creation of the universe. This doesn't trouble me. I also don't "believe" in any religious sense in the creation of the universe, I know there's a universe, it's origins being completely incidental to my everyday life.  It doesn't lead me to invent a magic pixie that lives in the sky to fill in the gaps for me or put my faith in any of the pre imagined magic pixies. I just accept that I don't know and that's about it. My world view doesn't require any kind of belief at all.

 

If I was one of the inquisitive people of the world I might build a telescope of a particle accelerator and try to understand the universe and it's origins, but I'm not that inquisitive to be honest, not about the universe and it's origins. If I was though, what I definitely wouldn't do is is read a book that is nothing more than an account of iron age politics.

 

rofl that's bs, and yes it does. Your "world view" requires the same kind of belief system as religion except to explain the creation of the world you say "Idk, but it isn't a deity" meanwhile theists say "a Creator(s) created everything." Same belief different words (if you can be abstract enough to understand what I'm saying). 

 

And you're right your belief system doesn't explain the creation of everything via a "magic pixie," but instead you just don't have an answer for how it was all created (yet still vehemently oppose any deity to have created all rofl?) and essentially say "something something patronizing something something idk something something there is no possibility of a creator I just know this, but alas imma go ahead and say it requires no belief system something something."

 

 

That's because as I said in the last sentence, religion is a definite thing. It's nothing at all to do with the origins of the universe or an after life. It's corporeal, it's politics.

 

When you know what something is, you know what it's not.

 

Talk about not understanding what theism is or at all grasping my last post. Theism is believing in a Creator(s). Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't necessarily adhere to any religion, though it can, or deny any religion. It merely states that a creator, or several, created all. It isn't necessarily political or anything of the like. We aren't talking Christianity or Islam here.

Edited by EliteCanada

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If God was always there or if he was the first something from nothing, either renders god unnecessary and irrelevant to the origin of existence. It means god can't be the solution. It relegates god to a secondary position in the universe, at best.

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rofl that's bs, and yes it does. Your "world view" requires the same kind of belief system as religion except to explain the creation of the world you say "Idk, but it isn't a deity" meanwhile theists say "a Creator(s) created everything." Same belief different words (if you can be abstract enough to understand what I'm saying). 

 

And you're right your belief system doesn't explain the creation of everything via a "magic pixie," but instead you just don't have an answer for how it was all created (yet still vehemently oppose any deity to have created all rofl?) and essentially say "something something patronizing something something idk something something there is no possibility of a creator I just know this, but alas imma go ahead and say it requires no belief system something something."

 

 

 

Talk about not understanding what theism is or at all grasping my last post. Theism is believing in a Creator(s). Nothing more nothing less. It doesn't necessarily adhere to any religion, though it can, or deny any religion. It merely states that a creator, or several, created all. It isn't necessarily political or anything of the like. We aren't talking Christianity or Islam here.

 

No, it really doesn't require a belief system. Or in your wishy washy description of none religious theists - a vague idea that there's a creator/a god/ oh shit, there must be something I can't cope if there isn't so despite there being no evidence and not liking any of the other made up magic sky pixies believing there is one which isn't so much a system as a crutch for the weak minded.

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W/o reading six pages worth of comments I'm just going to quickly state my opinion and view on this matter by specifically referring to this post. 

 

That reasoning is very similar to theism. In theism you believe there is a creator and in atheism you believe there is no creator. If you believe there is no creator you literally believe that nothing has created something (molecules/stars/chemicals/what have you); which kick-started the big bang and all life as we know it. This is an inherent paradox, for how can nothing create something? 

 

TLDR: It can't. Hence the meaning of the word nothing.

 

Unless you ofc believe matter has just always been here which is an equally incredulous idea imo. How could something always just have been here "forever" (the idea of there always just being things here forever is also a paradox and in order to believe in this it is equivalent to theist beliefs of a creator). Then again believing in theism runs the same inherent paradox. Besides how do you explain those things science cannot account for as an atheist? Do you perhaps tell yourself that science will account for it all eventually, or just because science doesn't have an explanation it doesn't mean there isn't one too complex for us to understand? Are these not equal to theism beliefs of there being a creator (in the sense both are w/o concrete proof)? 

 

TLDR: Both, theism and atheism, are beliefs with no "concrete" evidence  Theists simply believe a creator is responsible w/o tangible (arguably; and when I say arguably I mean believers of religions will believe there is tangible proof while others will not) and atheists believe that nothing created everything (???). Both run similarly strong beliefs with "no" evidence to support their claims. 

 

I have no idea if I made myself clear here or if this is just incoherent ramblings of a mad man  :P

 

TLDR: Theism and atheism run equally strong beliefs with no "facts" supporting their stance.

No, the reasoning is quite different. For starters, I never claimed that something came from nothing. Everything that ever has, does or will exist has always been there and will always be there. This idea is not ridiculous at all, it's supported by physics. Matter, like time, space and energy, are all relative parts of one thing. The huge difference between theism and non-theism is that there is actual objective evidence for the universe. The big bang is a scientific theory along with a number of other accompanying theories that explain the phenomena of existence. Theism/creationism is a hypothesis on it's very best day without the slightest bit of scientific or even mathematical evidence. It has as much validity as believing in dragons. Of course it's possible that dragons might exist, but there's no reason to think they do.

 

You can go back and read my argument which covers all of this, or not. But I don't feel like repeating my whole argument.

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