Tywin Lannister

DRAMA. Bluebear, are you lying or is Kylo lying? Did SK refuse the call? It's simple, SK realizes how irrelevant it has become now as an alliance and thought hitting TEst by claiming to not be a push over will improve their terrible reputation. I don't mind when alliances go to war and whatnot, but this declaration and reasoning just reeks of insecurity on SK's part. They talk about an alliance which was never a push over, yet ever since they left the tS-Mensa side, all they have ever gotten is being pushed around. TEst pushed them around by hitting their ally Valyria and they had no response. Mensa pushed them around just last month, something they seem to have conveniently forgotten now.

RW has always been slow to militarize if you noticed. Polaris, I'm confident could've taken out both Arrgh and RW with the right targets. I've hit 5 people at once when they aren't militarized properly, it can work out for you. Sure, TEst could've tried that, essentially lowering their military to hit, then building it back during update with a double build, and then doing attacks. Enough time to counter the nations decomming at their low strength and hitting them then. But that again requires proper strategy and execution from your side's part, and I already said my part on that. And of course, it would have been difficult to pull off, but that's the point. Nothing good comes easy. SK instead of establishing itself as a proper sphere didn't take the difficult route, and is taking the easy route instead of hitting a rolled alliance. That's what I was talking about to begin with, so thank you for accepting that!

They could have. If you look at numbers alone, all the wars tS won back in the day, they never could have. With proper strategy and execution, a lot is possible. SK and co obviously lacked that, but if it was someone competent instead, they simply could have with the ankle biting all the way up to top. And, as far as the Papers, Please, (is that the name now?) is concerned, Pantheon, their ultimate whales didn't even come in, neither did their ultimate lovely whale Oblige till the last declare of round 1. People with lesser cities than me hit me and using the air strategy won it. If they had used lesser alliances involved, the only difference in my opinion would have been it would've taken a lot more time in taking TEst out, but it was inevitable.

Polaris handled Arrgh alone in a later war very easily as I mentioned above, that cut them out. RW wasn't even militarized then so they could've easily been taken out at that point. Only TEst was fairly militarized and a real threat then. I'm criticizing your belief because it was incorrect in my opinion, I'm no expert but I know a thing or two about war you know. I'm also criticizing it because it lacked courage. As far as TEst losing is concerned, like I said I didn't believe you had the guts or ability to pull it off, something you believed yourself too apparently, but if you did, there's little one can do against updeclaring of this kind other than watch and hope to win the war decs which come.

How many Orders were there?!! And yeah, OoS is what I meant. Well, that exact lack of courage is what leads us here. You could have. I've a very good history of taking part in updeclares and take my word for it, you could have. One by one, you could've brought down TEst. It would've taken quite a bit, but with good planning and execution, of course it was possible. The hegemoney you guys criticize now back in their time won against higher numbers and won with courage while odds were stacked up against em, something you guys unfortunately seriously lack. It's also very funny that you're actually leading with the argument that your 5-6 alliances "third" sphere couldn't have taken out a single alliance.

Were you ever in Mensa? I'm curious.

Ohh, right. I think Polaris came in a later war against Arrgh and took them out! Alpha one I think. They had a treaty with you too from what I remember (please correct if I'm wrong) so that establishes Polaris could have handled Arrgh. Rest, your Valyria, Polaris again, SK, Dragonstone, Night's Watch, WTF via ODP and Order of White Rose(who you protected and we originally hit) could have taken TEst out slowly. Majority of you were out of TEst range so really damage was already minimized in that sense. Valyria had eaten most of what it could, your big nations already lost their most expensive infra at the top and rest were out of range. So really, all you had to do was pick TEst nations off a few each time, and give it a swift death. The problem with this was SK would've taken considerable hitting at their upper tier, something they clearly were scared of. Other than that, you guys could've won. Some people in TEst I remember voiced such concerns even, but I told them that you guys neither have the guts or ability to make that happen. I would've loved to be proven wrong. Yet here we stand, with the doom of Valyira. All I'm saying is, when SK actually had a change at greatness, they slept through it. It's gone now.

I never said Valyria wanted SK to come, but rather they needed to do so, easy on the assumptions mate. You guys got rolled and humiliated. Polaris had taken out Arrgh and if SK had entered and warred TEst, along with updeclares from your allies, you guys had a good chance to actually turn it into something. You literally missed out on the chance to become a real potential 3rd sphere force due to SK being too scared back then and have ended up as a joke instead.

To think I wanted to join Seven Kingdoms once. What have you guys fallen to. You didn't attack when Valyria needed you and ignored your obligations, but when TEst was undergoing different changes in members leaving and splinters, you guys jumped them very proudly. If we're to go by your logic, you might hit TEst now, but in future, I'm very sure SK will receive a visit from them. Have fun rolling a rolled alliance at the moment and pretending to achieve something, that's literally all you guys can do anyway at the moment since other side has alliances like Mensa which wipe the floor with you every time!

I mean when I posted earlier I hadn't thought about not being able to set yourself Gray but I assumed when Jessica asked me how to do so that it's not possible. it should be though now, otherwise, no point in that either.

Oh, I never tried but I assume now you can't set your colour to grey. Okay, this just made my people rebellion a lot more harder.

I can't wait for half of an alliance to go grey to stage some kind of protest against their leadership! Brilliant.

Orbis won't be the same anymore then.

Haha, I used alarms, and yes, I was specifically waiting for declares to do what I ended up doing. I just had no idea that now losing one ground control via immense means losing ground control everywhere. I was quite surprised when that happened since that changed the entire scenario. The server lag at declare was terrible though, I remember that. And, I hope the same, someday.

omg tkr as leader confirmed.

Aw, I actually managed to get those counters on you! We weren't able to counter much due to score ranges of course, but you were one of the lucky ones alright. Too bad the counter collapsed xd

You know, this goes for all alliances really but when you're speaking as a representative of your alliance to someone, you really need to keep your personal opinions to yourself unless you clearly label it so. Just my two cents.

TKR after reading your post: Threat to game acquired.

You literally had to include 2-3 more alliances to count Yoso. Wasn't really a hard job.

I'm pretty sure I covered both my lost infra cost and lost income cost! If I actually include the resources looted approximation too, I made a big profit instead! Not to forget due to the war I actually sold my huge resource piles on high prices rather than now which are utterly shit and got my cities. Can't help but thank TKR for all this. <3 As far as the guy talking about decimation is concerned, if nations in TEst were unable to take advantage of the same situation others did, I think then that's their fault. Secondly, thanks to Sheepy's fortify preventing beige, majority of them are sitting with a shit ton of stockpiles too. Also, I wonder how much income we all cost in military upkeep to the nations in TKR sphere who had to keep higher than normal armies.

Fair enough. You guys did a great job of defending yourselves though against such raiding. It's very impressive. Most of the people i raided came online, did a few attacks and perhaps forgot to buy ships! Ended up beiged anyway.

I think you proved your point of defending yourself very well in-game. Beating it like a dead horse now on forums does no one any favours and only leaves ill will on both sides. DragonK in simple words tried to raid you thinking you're inactive, you came online and it backfired. Had you not come online, he would've walked away with you and your bank's resources, money and 10% of your infrastructure destroyed. This thing has happened quite a lot and works, just as long as one stays inactive. That's the entire story of what happened, and what the intentions were, no more no less. Let the silly topic be now.

I personally find it in bad taste. You get in new players, offer them free money to buy cities, and then force them to stay with you or pay back everything you gave them. The only way I can find it okay is if you very clearly mentioned at the start that these "free" city grants are only "free" if you stay for the entire duration with VE, and that they have to be paid back when you leave. If that's the case, all good.

Woot is right here on people not calculating point. So many times people refused to pay large amounts to get out of a raid and then lost it's 3x in infra. But at the end, it costs those people more.

Yes, and that's why I said why can't it be in response to your shouldn't be. It's a perfectly reasonable strategy, you're sacrificing your infra for resources. Decisions decisions. I've had to make them a lot this war. Secondly, this will only be applicable on the 2-3rd day of the war when you're about to be beiged. Having a complete mechanic for just buying this time seems a waste of a mechanic. If anything, at that point, you would want to get beiged instead so you can rebuild and join in on the war on other people properly. No, it's actually not hard to do so. You mostly know when you're beaten or about to be in war. The only way it is possible is when the enemy is very smart about blockading, which you guys have not been FYI and never were in past either, most of you ran a no ships policy - some still do.. Even then, anyone with some sense can use his ships to get his resources out and fold, like I've and so many other people have in the past. So really, you still won't get anything. This will still defeat the purpose. If you can't escape a beige, why would you want to fortify? That's signing up for more infra damage and then getting beiged anyway.