Ban ISIS / Terrorism

[Lu Xun]

Neo-Nazis are banned on this forum, but does supporting Islamic militants and fundamentalists cross the line? If so, where does the line actually exist? According to certain sources, Ibrahim is only trolling, but serious and non-reasoned extremism in support of Islamic fundamentalists is generally offensive and could be seen as a death threat, which is generally against various TOSes.

 

Does a line exist with regards to Islamic fundamentalism? If so, where does the line exist, where you go from "legitimate viewpoint acknowledging the grievances of more than a billion Muslims" to "supporting terrorism"?

Edited October 10, 2015 by Inst

[Nadir Aminu]

This is just stupid. There are already multiple threads like this.

[Apeman]

I think it is valid, what's good for the goose.

[Rozalia]

I think I can see the answer, but regardless I'm obviously behind this. 

Edited October 10, 2015 by Rozalia

[Dimitri Valko]

This is just stupid. There are already multiple threads like this.

 

Not really. They were all pretty much taken down for stupid reasons.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Neo-Nazis are banned on this forum, but does supporting Islamic militants and fundamentalists cross the line? If so, where does the line actually exist? According to certain sources, Ibrahim is only trolling, but serious and non-reasoned extremism in support of Islamic fundamentalists is generally offensive and could be seen as a death threat, which is generally against various TOSes.

 

Does a line exist with regards to Islamic fundamentalism? If so, where does the line exist, where you go from "legitimate viewpoint acknowledging the grievances of more than a billion Muslims" to "supporting terrorism"?

 

Comparing Neo-Nazis to Muslims who follow the fundamental teachings of their religion is what's offensive, and you should really get a warning for making such a blatantly Islamophobic comment; as you would had you said something "anti-Semitic".

 

Also: I would like to see you provide direct quotes of me "supporting terrorism" before making these false accusations.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Robert Ap Ioan]

Your defence of ISIS beheadings stands against you, as does your support of killing Shia because "they are not muslim".

The last part is tantamount to fascism and ethnic cleansing, ironic when we consider your views on Jews.

I am not against Islam, I am against terrorists who have hijacked Islam for their own ends. How many Fatwas are there against ISIS?

Edited October 10, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Again I see no quotes.

 

Some people are really fond of talking out of their arse it seems. I'm done here.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I could post all of my logs from two months of IRC but what use would it be? You would claim that you did nothing wrong as it was just Roleplay and sheepy would let you off the hook.

[Rozalia]

Again I see no quotes.

 

Some people are really fond of talking out of their arse it seems. I'm done here.

 

We've played the quote game before. You'd claim out of context or that you were just saying it like you've done before. Lets not of course forget:

 

#22. Again dear Ibrahim... Is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi the Caliph of Islam and all Muslims worldwide? As is your duty as a "good Muslim" do you recognize and support the pious Caliph? Yes or no? 

 

Why don't you answer that?

 

Comparing Neo-Nazis to Muslims who follow the fundamental teachings of their religion is what's offensive, and you should really get a warning for making such a blatantly Islamophobic comment; as you would had you said something "anti-Semitic".

 

Also: I would like to see you provide direct quotes of me "supporting terrorism" before making these false accusations.

 

The Ku Klux Klan can claim the same thing, doesn't mean we allow it. If fundamentalism to you means supporting genocide and beheadings for being of a different faith like it does with ISIS then no it ain't going to be okay and you'll go in the same camp as the Nazis and all the rest.

[Dimitri Valko]

We've played the quote game before. You'd claim out of context or that you were just saying it like you've done before. Lets not of course forget:

 

#22. Again dear Ibrahim... Is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi the Caliph of Islam and all Muslims worldwide? As is your duty as a "good Muslim" do you recognize and support the pious Caliph? Yes or no? 

 

Why don't you answer that?

 

 

The Ku Klux Klan can claim the same thing, doesn't mean we allow it. If fundamentalism to you means supporting genocide and beheadings for being of a different faith like it does with ISIS then no it ain't going to be okay and you'll go in the same camp as the Nazis and all the rest.

 

Alright, Rozalia, every time you ask that question, the thread gets locked, so maybe refrain from saying it?

[Robert Ap Ioan]

For those who are interested I have uploaded the IRC logs here, it is a large document and I crashed mozilla firefox copying the logs online. If you are bored you can read them.

 

I can't be bothered to gain evidence from the countless posts of drivel posted by Ibrahim on these forums, I am glad I am not a moderator or I would feel honour bound to do so.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

For those who are interested I have uploaded the IRC logs here, it is a large document and I crashed mozilla firefox copying the logs online. If you are bored you can read them.

 

I can't be bothered to gain evidence from the countless posts of drivel posted by Ibrahim on these forums, I am glad I am not a moderator or I would feel honour bound to do so.

 

1 of 177 pages? I feel important. 

[Rozalia]

Alright, Rozalia, every time you ask that question, the thread gets locked, so maybe refrain from saying it?

 

At this point Ibrahim's postings might as well auto generate a post asking that question. 

[Dimitri Valko]

For those who are interested I have uploaded the IRC logs here, it is a large document and I crashed mozilla firefox copying the logs online. If you are bored you can read them.

 

I can't be bothered to gain evidence from the countless posts of drivel posted by Ibrahim on these forums, I am glad I am not a moderator or I would feel honour bound to do so.

 

Hint: Press Control and F and type in 'ISIS' to see what's being accused.

[Lu Xun]

The issue is not whether Ibrahim has a point; I have sympathies with his position, to an extent, but the question is that people have been arrested for pro-terrorist leanings IRL; so much as explaining how to route money to ISIS has managed to secure one teenager a substantial jail term.

 

What I'm looking for is a line that Ibrahim is not allowed to cross; he is entitled to his worldview and his opinion, and that is necessarily going to be expressed in his posting, but there has to be things he's not allowed to say, partially to save forum moderation the inconvenience of working with an FBI investigation if he gets arrested, partially to prevent people from dealing with arrant trollbait on these forums, and partially because this forum does not deserve to be on an FBI watchlist.

 

Just as a list of propositions for discussion:

 

-Death to Israel (in this particular formulation)

-ISIS should behead more kafirs

-9/11 victims deserved it

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Just as a list of propositions for discussion:

 

-Death to Israel (in this particular formulation)

 

Death to Israhell is just as valid as saying "death to America"; you can't stop people from saying it.

 

-ISIS should behead more kafirs

 

Other things that should be banned "drone strike more children", "Israel should bomb Gaza again", "Nuke the middle east", "Assad should drop more barrel bombs", "Russian needs to do more bombing in Syria" etc.

 

-9/11 victims deserved it

 

Something else that should be banned "Afghan/Iraqi/Pakistani/Somali victims deserved it". (Bush's crusader bombings.)

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Milord]

Why are neo nazis banned i thought this was a democratic forum.

( i am not a neo nazi just want to know if i can share my ideas without getting banned)

[Lu Xun]

Death to Israhell is just as valid as saying "death to America"; you can't stop people from saying it.

Well, you're zlined on Coldfront and according to people in #PnW you've been reported to MI5, so..

 

Actually, reading your posting, the objectionable things you've said so far are homophobia, descriptions of anal rape, and defense of terrorist organizations. My PoV is local community standards; i.e, PnW is US-based and the first and the last are objectionable.

 

As far as Islamic extremism goes, Nazism killed a couple of tens of millions, Neo-Nazis have killed around 100+ people in vigilante hate crimes, Islamic extremism can be accounted for with regards to a couple of thousand civilian deaths through terrorist attacks, including those of insurgents against Muslim populations and sectarian violence. It is well in the range of being offensive, illegal, and objectionable. Defending your brand of Islam is possibly permissible, but defending terrorist organizations is not.

 

I do note the hypocrisy inherent in that (death tolls from Western imperialism tend to be far higher), but a synonym for hypocrisy is often social mores.

 

I will wait on moderator and administrative decisions on this.

[Ekejen Luish]

Muslims are fine, just not the extremists.

Also freedom of speech FTW

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

If this topic is about banning terrorism then we should ban all the people voting in the American elections, as they are more or less supporting terrorism given America's current bombing campaigns in 7 countries, which has lead to the deaths of countless civilians. We should also ban every Zionist on this forum for their support of Israel who is currently running an open air concentration camp named Gaza. Also ban Rozalia for his support of the terrorist Assad and for glorifying his actions, as well as those of the terrorist Putin.

 

By the time we are done banning people.... there will be no one left to play this game.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Lu Xun]

Why are neo nazis banned i thought this was a democratic forum.

( i am not a neo nazi just want to know if i can share my ideas without getting banned)

That would make the game illegal in France, Germany, and other parts of Europe where Nazi-identification is illegal by statutes of law. Sheepy made another post on this with regards to how he doesn't want this game to be a haven for neo-Nazis; you have to remember, freedom of speech is a matter of government interference. What private individuals and corporations do is another matter.

 

Pragmatically, harboring Neo-Nazis is bad for business. Harboring Islamic extremists, unless you're in a Muslim country, is also bad for business and at the very least will cause administrative headaches. Ibrahim's vociferous defense of terrorist organizations, when combined with his strong religious convictions, probably should not be allowed on these forums; there are many extremist Muslim forums which are probably already on government watchlists where Ibrahim can spout on about how the West or East Asia is being cruel to the Ummah until he gets arrested, doesn't get arrested, or gets drone-struck while on Jihad. That's none of our business, but if he gets arrested while spouting Islamic agitation here it becomes Sheepy's business.

 

===

 

@ Ibrahim: in my private life I am all for telling social norms to go screw themselves, but the point is that in public you need to conform to get business done and avoid getting arrested. In the United States, supporting terrorist groups is a violation of social norms, and others informed me that what you have said would be illegal in England, where you claim to reside.

 

As I've said before, the history of Western civilization, and civilization in general, is very bloody, very cruel, and often very hypocritical. That doesn't mean that the social norm is invalid, because all a social norm needs for validity is that people agree to adhere to it, and you will be very hard pressed to get people to agree to say "it's okay for Muslim extremists to torture, kill and rape".

 

I am not asking for you to get banned; we agree on certain topics (i.e, Osama Bin Laden won the War on Terror by making America un-American, the West has been sort of a prick to the Islamic world considering the history of imperialism and post-imperialism, Islamic civilization is a great civilization that's fallen on hard times, and before people complain I'm an old-school 90s multi-culturalist), but I am trying to get you squelched when it comes to naked trollbait in defense of terrorist organizations.

 

===

 

In (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), there was an alliance called Nordreich, which drew its members from Stormfront. It achieved a modus vivendi with the moderation team by not actually posting its Nazi symbols, not posting racist invective on the forums or in-game, but the players sought to roll it instead. That was workable, they were crypto-Nazis but only crypto-Nazis. You are an Islamic fundamentalist, the best we can say for you is that you have not yet been seen to abet terrorist groups or actively join the Jihad. You have already been reported to the relevant authorities, and if you don't get arrested, that's fine, but please don't get us involved in your extremism.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Inst

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

For the last time: If you can provide direct quotes where I said I support terrorism then please do so; otherwise stop wasting people's time.

 

In (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), there was an alliance called Nordreich, which drew its members from Stormfront. It achieved a modus vivendi with the moderation team by not actually posting its Nazi symbols, not posting racist invective on the forums or in-game, but the players sought to roll it instead. That was workable, they were crypto-Nazis but only crypto-Nazis. You are an Islamic fundamentalist, the best we can say for you is that you have not yet been seen to abet terrorist groups or actively join the Jihad. You have already been reported to the relevant authorities, and if you don't get arrested, that's fine, but please don't get us involved in your extremism.

 

So you admit you have nothing? Okay.

 

+ I am a proud Muslim who believes in and follows the fundamentals of his religion.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Milord]

That would make the game illegal in France, Germany, and other parts of Europe where Nazi-identification is illegal by statutes of law. Sheepy made another post on this with regards to how he doesn't want this game to be a haven for neo-Nazis; you have to remember, freedom of speech is a matter of government interference. What private individuals and corporations do is another matter.Pragmatically, harboring Neo-Nazis is bad for business. Harboring Islamic extremists, unless you're in a Muslim country, is also bad for business and at the very least will cause administrative headaches. Ibrahim's vociferous defense of terrorist organizations, when combined with his strong religious convictions, probably should not be allowed on these forums; there are many extremist Muslim forums which are probably already on government watchlists where Ibrahim can spout on about how the West or East Asia is being cruel to the Ummah until he gets arrested, doesn't get arrested, or gets drone-struck while on Jihad. That's none of our business, but if he gets arrested while spouting Islamic agitation here it becomes Sheepy's business.===@

A little bit hypocratic but anyway if it has to be it has to be

Edited October 10, 2015 by Milord

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I have, there is two months (at least) worth in the link I shared. Are you not going to read the rubbish you peddle?