Ways to prevent mass shootings?

[Doktor Avalanche]

The homicide rate is still falling, we are objectively safer than ever before. I don't know why such a huge circus has to raised about gun control every time these rare edge cases occur. You are 2,500x more likely to be the victim of a single victim homicide than be involved in a mass shooting and 3,750x more likely to die in a car crash.

I find it amusing when the British always make references like "the whole world" in not understanding the right to bear arms, when in fact it is usually just the British who question. Okay, sometimes the occasional Scandinavian pipes in now and then as well.

 

To me it is mind boggling to not own or have access to firearms. And it is mind boggling how quickly people, mostly kids here, who are so eager and willing to give up their liberties and not have access to them.

 

Better to have access to them and not own one then to not have access and really, seriously need one.

Restricting your access only makes it easier for the few who do want to control you to eventually losing your accessibility.

Edited October 9, 2015 by VasiliusKonstantinos

[Solomon]

To me it is mind boggling to not own or have access to firearms. And it is mind boggling how quickly people, mostly kids here, who are so eager and willing to give up their liberties and not have access to them.

I can understand that it could be mind-boggling to you but the question you should ask yourself is whether it will also be mind-boggling to your kids (if you have them) and the generations after you.

[stetonic]

I find it amusing when the British always make references like "the whole world" in not understanding the right to bear arms, when in fact it is usually just the British who question. Okay, sometimes the occasional Scandinavian pipes in now and then as well.

 

To me it is mind boggling to not own or have access to firearms. And it is mind boggling how quickly people, mostly kids here, who are so eager and willing to give up their liberties and not have access to them.

 

Better to have access to them and not own one then to not have access and really, seriously need one.

Restricting your access only makes it easier for the few who do want to control you to eventually losing your accessibility.

 

Are you taking the piss or what.I fully understand your rights to bear arms but your argument is over 200 years  out of date and you where given that right as a means to raise a milita or oppose an oppressive gov.Are you that paranoid of your own gov that you cant lay down your guns and put your trust in those that are trained and paid to serve and protect you.

 

I looked this up and this year almost 600 children under 11 years of age have been injured or killed in a  gun related incident.You have also have had over 1400 accidental shootings.

 

I saw you before saying about conceal and carry.Well i bet the women who had a handgun in her handbag with a licence to carry regrets that after her 3 year old shoot itself in the head in a supermarket.Or the parents of children whos eldest child has shoot his/her younger sibling while playing with a gun like daddy does 

 

Maybe you will change your mind about guns when one of your loved ones gets killed by one 

 

 

Greatnate your stats are skewed in favor of your argument.How can you compare car deaths and gun deaths.How many car journeys are made every day and when was the last time a car came into a classroom and started randomly running students over 

[Robert Ap Ioan]

To me as a European the comments from Americans on the sword guy seem typical and awful. This might seem condescending but I think that not anyone deserves to die, no matter the crime, even though at many times my emotions tell me someone deserves to die I, ad no-one, can make that assessment. Also the suggestion to use prisoners for science is not only sadistic my very disturbing.. 

 

My previous comment about violence being the hands of the government also shows a big difference between the New and Old world. I think that our governments should act as our protectors because any one individual cannot be trusted to decide when to use or not use force. The government is a representation of society and a should be corrected if they make mistakes, that's called elections. 

 

Each different institution, like the police or army, should have an oversight commitee checked by the government. This system has been proven to work. America seems to be stuck on the right to bare arms over the basic right to not be harmed.

I have seen a Nederlander post in this topic and I have seen a Australian post on this topic, both of whom think the American preoccupation with keeping firearm legislation as it is is crazy. My American friends, who now live in the UK have been commenting more on this issue than any Brit I know, they have lived here five years and can't understand why you would need a gun in this country and don't see why the idea of legislation in the US is being fought hand and foot.

 

I am not saying that all guns should be banned, I think the idea of banning handguns is very sensible. I am suggesting that making it more difficult to buy a firearm might be beneficial.

 

 

Better to have access to them and not own one then to not have access and really, seriously need one.

Restricting your access only makes it easier for the few who do want to control you to eventually losing your accessibility.

How are you going to fight back when they bring out a howitzer?  How likely is it that you will save your life with a firearm if someone shoots at you first, or do you believe in shoot first and ask questions later? Oh and by the way I am not a kid, in fact if I could be arsed I could get a firearms license quite easily. I have fired a hand gun and a shotgun, I know the dangers of both. If anyone tried attacking me in my own home, implausible as that is, they would find a man who knows how to use a Billhook to good effect, which I would usually use for forestry work.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[Wayne]

Stop making bullets!

 

Have all the guns you like, you just won't be able to fire em.  Problem solved.  I'll shall await my Nobel prize...

[Greatnate]

Greatnate your stats are skewed in favor of your argument.How can you compare car deaths and gun deaths.How many car journeys are made every day and when was the last time a car came into a classroom and started randomly running students over

Easily, by comparing CDC cause of death statistics. You joke, but kids die in bus crashes too, going to school. 170 kids died as a result of school-related transportation fatalities from 2004-2013 (source). During that same period, 140 kids died due to school attacks (source). Both of these rates are very low rates, do we need a national discussion on our going to obsession?

[Wayne]

America is a young country, still finding it's feet.  Our much older nations in Europe, have spent many years killing each other with the weapons of the day.  We've learnt our lessons.  One day USA will learn them too.

[stetonic]

Easily, by comparing CDC cause of death statistics. You joke, but kids die in bus crashes too, going to school. 170 kids died as a result of school-related transportation fatalities from 2004-2013 (source). During that same period, 140 kids died due to school attacks (source). Both of these rates are very low rates, do we need a national discussion on our going to obsession?

 

In how many of those bus crashes did the driver deliberately kill those kids 

 

The definition of an accident is an incident in which you have no control of the outcome.Walking into a classroom with a gun and killing 10 kids is a deliberate act and not an accident.So once again i find flaw in your statistical argument 

[Robert Ap Ioan]

America is a young country, still finding it's feet.  Our much older nations in Europe, have spent many years killing each other with the weapons of the day.  We've learnt our lessons.  One day USA will learn them too.

When my country was the age of America the English spoke a different language to us and had just invaded, the situation isn't quite the same. Also a lot of the countries in Europe aren't much older than America, some are younger, and they don't have the same problems.

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[Greatnate]

In how many of those bus crashes did the driver deliberately kill those kids 

 

The definition of an accident is an incident in which you have no control of the outcome.Walking into a classroom with a gun and killing 10 kids is a deliberate act and not an accident.So once again i find flaw in your statistical argument 

 

Your scenario of "walking into a classroom and killing 10 kids" is a huge rarity. You know how many times it's happened in a high school? Once. An elementary school? Once. How many bus drivers deliberately killed those kids? Probably not zero. We don't need national freak outs every time someone kills a handful of the 74 million children in America. Is it tragic? Yeah. Does a insanely rare death mean that America has a gun problem? No.

 

Mass killings happen, school attacks happen, it's not because of guns. Without guns we just see more arson, bombings, and knifings.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

Not usually in schools or other such public institutions. The only bombings that have occurred, apart from 7/7, in recent history, in the UK. were the IRA bombings.

[Greatnate]

Not usually in schools or other such public institutions. The only bombings that have occurred, apart from 7/7, in recent history, in the UK. were the IRA bombings.

 

Our biggest school attack until Columbine was a bombing.

[stetonic]

Your scenario of "walking into a classroom and killing 10 kids" is a huge rarity. You know how many times it's happened in a high school? Once. An elementary school? Once. How many bus drivers deliberately killed those kids? Probably not zero. We don't need national freak outs every time someone kills a handful of the 74 million children in America. Is it tragic? Yeah. Does a insanely rare death mean that America has a gun problem? No.

 

Mass killings happen, school attacks happen, it's not because of guns. Without guns we just see more arson, bombings, and knifings.

 

I know killings happen.If someone wants to do harm they will even if they have to use a rock from the garden but i would rather take my chances against someone with a knife then a gun.Fear can be a great motivator when having to run or fight and running or fighting a guy with a knife will lead to a better chance of survival than against someone with a gun.

 

America does have a gun problem.A huge amount of your own population want guns banned but its your gov who are to scared to ban them from fear of losing investment in there campaigns from the NRA.Its ingrained in your mentality and your second amendment but it can be changed its already called an amendment coz it was changed before 

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

As we all know, if there is a good guy with a gun, and a bad guy with a gun, fate always falls on the good guy and he is always able to take out the bad guy.

 

By the way, in a hypothetical scenario where everyone is openly carring a gun, and you start hearing gunshots, how are you supposed to tell who is shooting? A large amount of scared and paranoid people with guns doesn't exactly sound like a good thing to me.

When everybody has a gun there will be no afraid people 

[Thalmor]

I know killings happen.If someone wants to do harm they will even if they have to use a rock from the garden but i would rather take my chances against someone with a knife then a gun.Fear can be a great motivator when having to run or fight and running or fighting a guy with a knife will lead to a better chance of survival than against someone with a gun.

 

America does have a gun problem.A huge amount of your own population want guns banned but its your gov who are to scared to ban them from fear of losing investment in there campaigns from the NRA.Its ingrained in your mentality and your second amendment but it can be changed its already called an amendment coz it was changed before 

 

The right for Americans to own guns comes from God, not our Constitution. Same thing for our right to free speech, to privacy, to a fair trial, etc.

 

Also, you know absolutely nothing of American politics. The claim that the government doesn't want to ban guns purely because of lobbying from the N.R.A.. is absurd.

 

How do you go about banning guns in America anyways? How do you plan on taking away hundreds of millions of guns from tens of millions of people? What's YOUR solution, stetonic?

[Robert Ap Ioan]

When everybody has a gun there will be no afraid people 

If everyone had a gun I wouldn't be afraid, I'd be shitting my pants terrified in much the same way I fear the Nuclear button being pushed. MAD isn't a nice thought.

 

The right for Americans to own guns comes from God, not our Constitution. Same thing for our right to free speech, to privacy, to a fair trial, etc.

 

Presumably you mean the Christian God who said "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Edited October 9, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[stetonic]

The right for Americans to own guns comes from God, not our Constitution. Same thing for our right to free speech, to privacy, to a fair trial, etc.

 

Also, you know absolutely nothing of American politics. The claim that the government doesn't want to ban guns purely because of lobbying from the N.R.A.. is absurd.

 

How do you go about banning guns in America anyways? How do you plan on taking away hundreds of millions of guns from tens of millions of people? What's YOUR solution, stetonic?

 

My solution is very simple.All your law abiding population have guns that are registered so the police go and knock on the door and say the gov have passed a bill on guns.So give me your gun and you give them your gun.Its a very simple plan and you know what it works coz the UK did it and so did Australia after they had mass shooting and they did not have one civil war over handing them guns over.

 

My knowledge on U.S politics is not up for debate but my knowledge for common sense will beat your argument for using a 200 year old law any day.Plus i don't believe god invented the handgun or gave the knowledge to create gunpowder for the purpose of killing kids while they learn about the world we live in

[Thalmor]

My solution is very simple.All your law abiding population have guns that are registered so the police go and knock on the door and say the gov have passed a bill on guns.So give me your gun and you give them your gun.Its a very simple plan and you know what it works coz the UK did it and so did Australia after they had mass shooting and they did not have one civil war over handing them guns over.

 

The fact that you think it would go over that easily is further proof you have no idea how things are over here in the United States.

 

My knowledge on U.S politics is not up for debate but my knowledge for common sense will beat your argument for using a 200 year old law any day.Plus i don't believe god invented the handgun or gave the knowledge to create gunpowder for the purpose of killing kids while they learn about the world we live in

 

Tens of millions of gun owners (including several of my friends and family) don't shoot kids. Why should the ~10,000 crazies or so in the country that do shoot each other up (most of them being gang-related, with a lot others being suicides or accidents) lead to such a fundamental right being taken away?

 

Don't you have some plastic knives to turn into the police or something??

[stetonic]

If you took two minutes to stop and check the uk does have gun's but the process of getting one i very strict.Unlike the U.S where everyone can have one.No matter if you have a history of being a !@#$ing nutter coz your argument is always the same,Its my 200 year old right to have a gun.So i need an assault rifle to defend myself.

 

I will give you an example 

 

In the uk if we wake up in the night coz of a noise from downstairs.We get up we turn on a light and go down to investigate.Once we are down stairs we turn on another light and what do we see.A family member sleepwalking.Or in an extreme case a burglar jumping out of the window and running away.

 

Now the same situation in the U.S.A.We hear a noise we grab our gun from under our pillow and we commando roll across the bedroom floor.We then creep down the stairs as quietly as we can.So we have the element of surprise.Once downstairs we peek around the corner and see a shadow.So we empty a full clip from our 9mm semi automatic handgun coz 1 shot would not be enough to scare them away.We then turn on the lights and see our dead family member who had been sleepwalking and not the home invasion gang we had been expecting.

 

Its at that point you think shit maybe i didn't need that gun at all and i should of used my COMMON SENSE instead of the Hollywood induced scene i thought i would encounter

[Quasar]

Are you taking the piss or what.I fully understand your rights to bear arms but your argument is over 200 years  out of date and you where given that right as a means to raise a milita or oppose an oppressive gov.Are you that paranoid of your own gov that you cant lay down your guns and put your trust in those that are trained and paid to serve and protect you.

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

 

My solution is very simple.All your law abiding population have guns that are registered so the police go and knock on the door and say the gov have passed a bill on guns.So give me your gun and you give them your gun.Its a very simple plan and you know what it works coz the UK did it and so did Australia after they had mass shooting and they did not have one civil war over handing them guns over.

 

My knowledge on U.S politics is not up for debate but my knowledge for common sense will beat your argument for using a 200 year old law any day.Plus i don't believe god invented the handgun or gave the knowledge to create gunpowder for the purpose of killing kids while they learn about the world we live in

There was public outrage, if you think that everything was fine and dandy then you are delusional. People were angry, other people were happy.

There were protests, an easy Google search will show you videos of gun ban protests.

 

In the U.S.A there would be the Australian protests x1000 and possibly a revolt or civil war deux.

 

If you took two minutes to stop and check the uk does have gun's but the process of getting one i very strict.Unlike the U.S where everyone can have one.No matter if you have a history of being a !@#$ nutter coz your argument is always the same,Its my 200 year old right to have a gun.So i need an assault rifle to defend myself.

 

I will give you an example 

 

In the uk if we wake up in the night coz of a noise from downstairs.We get up we turn on a light and go down to investigate.Once we are down stairs we turn on another light and what do we see.A family member sleepwalking.Or in an extreme case a burglar jumping out of the window and running away.

 

Now the same situation in the U.S.A.We hear a noise we grab our gun from under our pillow and we commando roll across the bedroom floor.We then creep down the stairs as quietly as we can.So we have the element of surprise.Once downstairs we peek around the corner and see a shadow.So we empty a full clip from our 9mm semi automatic handgun coz 1 shot would not be enough to scare them away.We then turn on the lights and see our dead family member who had been sleepwalking and not the home invasion gang we had been expecting.

 

Its at that point you think shit maybe i didn't need that gun at all and i should of used my COMMON SENSE instead of the Hollywood induced scene i thought i would encounter

 

Also your argument is very biased. I think most people would actually rather not shoot into the dark because of the fear that it is their family member.

They would rather wait until they could see the target instead of the chance of killing someone that is their friend or family.

[Eric]

I think it's a amazing these mass shootings occur on a regular basis and absolutely nothing is done about it. It's simply not a crisis big enough to institute political change. Hell, even when a bunch of kids died at Sandy Hook, the bill that came after died in Congress despite the general outrage and grief. 

 

I do wonder how big the crisis event would have to be to institute change. 

Obama would have to be shot in a mass-shooting to institute change probably.

 

Now this is coming from a Canadian, not much for American shit. No gun violence, number of shits I give - low because i have nothing to do with it, but not zero because people died and that is sad.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Are you taking the piss or what.I fully understand your rights to bear arms but your argument is over 200 years  out of date and you where given that right as a means to raise a milita or oppose an oppressive gov.Are you that paranoid of your own gov that you cant lay down your guns and put your trust in those that are trained and paid to serve and protect you.

 

I looked this up and this year almost 600 children under 11 years of age have been injured or killed in a  gun related incident.You have also have had over 1400 accidental shootings.

 

I saw you before saying about conceal and carry.Well i bet the women who had a handgun in her handbag with a licence to carry regrets that after her 3 year old shoot itself in the head in a supermarket.Or the parents of children whos eldest child has shoot his/her younger sibling while playing with a gun like daddy does 

 

Maybe you will change your mind about guns when one of your loved ones gets killed by one 

I find it laughable that you do give so much trust to your own government. When you finally realize someday that no government actually gives a shit about its own citizens, remember this conversation, please. The biggest lie I have ever heard is "we are the government and we are here to help you."

And yes, I will fully admit I do not trust my government. I have a hard time trusting those that do trust their own, no offense. To me the government is just another religion of the masses and used to control and be worshiped.

 

Um, I have lost two family members and two friends to firearms.

To note, one friend was killed by a cop. He was unarmed and underage at the time.

I lost a cousin to sexual assault then a shot to the head afterwards. She was not armed but was someone who was in favor of carry/conceal, so your argument is kind of pissy to me to begin with by stating my argument is invalid by 200 years when in fact it factors in to possibly being a variable that could have saved her life.

 

Maybe when you lose a friend or a loved one to a thug or a belligerent public servant, you might have wished you could reverse time and wonder why you were so quick to give up your own personal liberties. I pray that time does not come, but meh.

[Thomas Paine]

Our rights come from God. If our rights do not come from God, the government is free to do as it pleases, because then everything is subjective.

 

I am willing to live in danger if it means that I am free. If that means I must accept a minuscule chance of being shot wherever I go, so be it. I will not give up any essential liberty to secure some temporary safety. 

 

To the topic at hand though, to help prevent mass shootings, get rid of gun free zones. For some reason mass murderers seem to prefer to take their weapons to where they are prohibited, to do things that are illegal, to kill those who cannot protect themselves.  

[Thalmor]

If you took two minutes to stop and check the uk does have gun's but the process of getting one i very strict.Unlike the U.S where everyone can have one.No matter if you have a history of being a !@#$ nutter coz your argument is always the same,Its my 200 year old right to have a gun.So i need an assault rifle to defend myself.

 

Felons cannot buy guns. Here in the State of Kentucky (which has some of the most relaxed laws on gun ownership) you still have to go and get a permit for one.

 

In the uk if we wake up in the night coz of a noise from downstairs.We get up we turn on a light and go down to investigate.Once we are down stairs we turn on another light and what do we see.A family member sleepwalking.Or in an extreme case a burglar jumping out of the window and running away.

 

Now the same situation in the U.S.A.We hear a noise we grab our gun from under our pillow and we commando roll across the bedroom floor.We then creep down the stairs as quietly as we can.So we have the element of surprise.Once downstairs we peek around the corner and see a shadow.So we empty a full clip from our 9mm semi automatic handgun coz 1 shot would not be enough to scare them away.We then turn on the lights and see our dead family member who had been sleepwalking and not the home invasion gang we had been expecting.

 

Its at that point you think shit maybe i didn't need that gun at all and i should of used my COMMON SENSE instead of the Hollywood induced scene i thought i would encounter

 

 

[Doktor Avalanche]

For all those who research the amount of deaths by gunfire in the United States, please find a breakdown because the number of deaths by suicide is over 64% and accidental deaths by mishandling is 1%, all since 1968.

Edited October 10, 2015 by VasiliusKonstantinos