America's efforts in the Middle east (including North Africa)

[Franz Von Dietrich]

  To be honest, ever since America/USA has been involved in the Middle East, you see a constant uprising of problems. Such as the ISIS, the Taliban, and other radical extreme Muslim groups, (not talking about Islam as a whole). But, anyways back to the point. Libya is falling apart, after Gaddafi was removed from power, even though he was somewhat able to keep Libya united, but NATO and other foreign nations decided he needed to go. Iraq and Syria, which we all know is basically USA's fault for arming and supplying rebel and radical extremist groups, in the name of "democracy" yet, it caused much civil unrest. And onto Israel, which has been the source of problems, ever since their Zionist goals have taken place, you see Hamas and such groups going on and off causing civil unrest.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

[iljohn]

Agree, Basically we turned a somewhat stable region 20years ago into a complete mess and we keep doing the same thing we have done in the past which just lead to different groups doing the same thing.

[Arthur James]

the same in verse visa bcos we meant to be ruled and have rights differently.

This obvious an civil war.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Arthur James

[Sailor Jerry]

Oh look, yet another bash America thread! Yes we are the root of all evil in the Middle East and the famine and civil unrest in Africa. Like those places didn't have a crap load of problems and issues before we showed up. You make it sound like things there were all peaches and cream where unicorns drank sunshine and pissed rainbows and if this is the case, why hasn't the world's masses migrated to this region?

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Oh look, yet another bash America thread! Yes we are the root of all evil in the Middle East and the famine and civil unrest in Africa. Like those places didn't have a crap load of problems and issues before we showed up. You make it sound like things there were all peaches and cream where unicorns drank sunshine and pissed rainbows and if this is the case, why hasn't the world's masses migrated to this region?

It's not a bash America thread, I'm trying to make a interesting debate. And America, has caused worst problems ever since they got involved.

[Sailor Jerry]

It's not a bash America thread, I'm trying to make a interesting debate. And America, has caused worst problems ever since they got involved.

I forgot, we caused those country's leaders to cause mass genocides against their own people. We whispered in their ears and said, "Hey, use poison gas on your own countryman, or line them up and use mass firing squads to kill thousands of your people who you think are a threat to your power....and why you're at it, keep your girls and women from getting educations or doing anything outside the home and treat them like property instead of human beings....they'll really like that....and since you are in power, keep all the income your country brings in for yourself and the privledged few and leave the rest in severe poverty......because you know.....they're not worth it."

 

Yep, America caused all that. That crap has been happening in that part of the world for centuries before North America was even a twinkle in the Vikings eyes!

[Franz Von Dietrich]

I forgot, we caused those country's leaders to cause mass genocides against their own people. We whispered in their ears and said, "Hey, use poison gas on your own countryman, or line them up and use mass firing squads to kill thousands of your people who you think are a threat to your power....and why you're at it, keep your girls and women from getting educations or doing anything outside the home and treat them like property instead of human beings....they'll really like that....and since you are in power, keep all the income your country brings in for yourself and the privledged few and leave the rest in severe poverty......because you know.....they're not worth it."

 

Yep, America caused all that. That crap has been happening in that part of the world for centuries before North America was even a twinkle in the Vikings eyes!

Saddam Hussein opposed the "Sharia Law" and actually gave women some kind of chance of getting an education. Gaddafi was the only one who probably used Sharia Law in his "Green Libya".

Edited February 5, 2015 by Francisco Franco

[MRBOOTY]

Here's the thing. 

Saddam Hussein was as bad as ISIS but he ruled over all of Iraq

At least now Kurdistan is somewhat autonomous and they women let be free

You can't really argue that before us the middle east didn't have cracks

The mindset of the people down there is really that bad

The extreme religion, xenophobia, and racism that is prevalent in those societies is really really overwhelming and sad

And noone seems willing to admit that the people living there are to blame

Instead they want to say that only the US and Israel are the ones owning the shame

Even the liberals seem to share this view

I went on a fb page for Westernized, English-speaking Arabs and was sad to see they thought this too

 

The Middle east used to be the cradle of civilization and advances

And the Arab population were the most educated and talented of all the nations

But now extremism and a culture of blame has taken over

And would still be the heart of the problem even if Israel and the US rolled over

Edited February 5, 2015 by MRBOOTY

[Fox Fire]

  To be honest, ever since America/USA has been involved in the Middle East, you see a constant uprising of problems. Such as the ISIS, the Taliban, and other radical extreme Muslim groups, (not talking about Islam as a whole). But, anyways back to the point. Libya is falling apart, after Gaddafi was removed from power, even though he was somewhat able to keep Libya united, but NATO and other foreign nations decided he needed to go. Iraq and Syria, which we all know is basically USA's fault for arming and supplying rebel and radical extremist groups, in the name of "democracy" yet, it caused much civil unrest. And onto Israel, which has been the source of problems, ever since their Zionist goals have taken place, you see Hamas and such groups going on and off causing civil unrest.

 

Anyone agree or disagree?

And on the other hand, if Russia invades nations in the name of democracy, it's evil.

 

Yeah, it's a total joke. Every nation that ever thrived on the idea of militarism was inevitably destroyed by it. We are no exception.

 

 

Here's the thing. 

Saddam Hussein was as bad as ISIS but he ruled over all of Iraq

At least now Kurdistan is somewhat autonomous and they women let be free

You can't really argue that before us the middle east didn't have cracks

The mindset of the people down there is really that bad

The extreme religion, xenophobia, and racism that is prevalent in those societies is really really overwhelming and sad

And noone seems willing to admit that the people living there are to blame

Instead they want to say that only the US and Israel are the ones owning the shame

Even the liberals seem to share this view

I went on a fb page for Westernized, English-speaking Arabs and was sad to see they thought this too

 

The Middle east used to be the cradle of civilization and advances

And the Arab population were the most educated and talented of all the nations

But now extremism and a culture of blame has taken over

And would still be the heart of the problem even if Israel and the US rolled over

You should go read about Islamic State, how they were formed, and what their primary motivations are.

 

 

Oh look, yet another bash America thread! Yes we are the root of all evil in the Middle East and the famine and civil unrest in Africa. Like those places didn't have a crap load of problems and issues before we showed up. You make it sound like things there were all peaches and cream where unicorns drank sunshine and pissed rainbows and if this is the case, why hasn't the world's masses migrated to this region?

I'm going to suggest you do the same and add that you read about the Sykes-Pikot agreement; the primary source of the middle easts problems.

 

 

I forgot, we caused those country's leaders to cause mass genocides against their own people. We whispered in their ears and said, "Hey, use poison gas on your own countryman, or line them up and use mass firing squads to kill thousands of your people who you think are a threat to your power....and why you're at it, keep your girls and women from getting educations or doing anything outside the home and treat them like property instead of human beings....they'll really like that....and since you are in power, keep all the income your country brings in for yourself and the privledged few and leave the rest in severe poverty......because you know.....they're not worth it."

 

Yep, America caused all that. That crap has been happening in that part of the world for centuries before North America was even a twinkle in the Vikings eyes!

Yes, we pretty much did. We helped Saddam build chemical weapons which we later used as an excuse to topple him, and we did the Sykes-Pikot Agreement, not to mention the Balfour Declaration. Though that one can be blamed mostly on Britain. The entire middle east has been an exploited play thing for foreign nations ever since the end of WWI. The entire rest of the devoloped world has exploited the middle east for cheap oil since we dismantled the Ottoman Empire. In fact, that's precisly why we dismantled the Ottoman Empire and split it up among foreign nations as one would share a plate of cookies. Nearly every problem there was at least influenced and/or exploited by foreign nations in some way.

Learn your history, noob.

ISIS may be a sick joke, but their goals are probably more legit than anything we've concocted in the last several decades. Which is why they're more willing to die for it. And yes, you can blame us for their existence.

 

 

Saddam Hussein opposed the "Sharia Law" and actually gave women some kind of chance of getting an education. Gaddafi was the only one who probably used Sharia Law in his "Green Libya".

Correct. Saddam was very opposed to a religious state in Iraq and was far better than any current possible leader.

[WISD0MTREE]

And onto Israel, which has been the source of problems, ever since their Zionist goals have taken place, you see Hamas and such groups going on and off causing civil unrest.

Would you rather change 6 million to all of them? It sounds like it. 

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Would you rather change 6 million to all of them? It sounds like it. 

If you're referring to the holocaust, I highly disagree with you.

[WISD0MTREE]

If you're referring to the holocaust, I highly disagree with you.

No, I'm referring to Windows 10. 

 

[/sarcasm] 

Edited February 6, 2015 by WISD0MTREE

[Franz Von Dietrich]

No, I'm referring to Windows 10. 

 

[/sarcasm] 

Doesn't matter, this topic isn't about Jew's. It's about America's Middle East efforts.

[elsuper]

Doesn't matter, this topic isn't about Jew's. It's about America's Middle East efforts.

 

And onto Israel, which has been the source of problems, ever since their Zionist goals have taken place, you see Hamas and such groups going on and off causing civil unrest.

 

It's not not about Jews...

[Franz Von Dietrich]

It's not not about Jews...

How about Jew's in general? That is what I'm referring to, not Zionists.

[Belisarius]

Agree, Basically we turned a somewhat stable region 20years ago into a complete mess and we keep doing the same thing we have done in the past which just lead to different groups doing the same thing.

 

Since when has the Middle East ever been stable? You have to go back to the Tanzimat reforms to even approach "stability." 

[WISD0MTREE]

How about Jew's in general? That is what I'm referring to, not Zionists.

"America's Efforts in the Middle East"

Israel is in the Middle East. 

[Franz Von Dietrich]

"America's Efforts in the Middle East"

Israel is in the Middle East. 

I should've placed the title "America's and its allies efforts in the Middle East". But still, I wasn't talking about Jew's in General.

[Solomon]

I should've placed the title "America's and its allies efforts in the Middle East". But still, I wasn't talking about Jew's in General.

You have a rare knack for digging yourself into a hole, and then digging it deeper.

[SoS]

Since when has the Middle East ever been stable? You have to go back to the Tanzimat reforms to even approach "stability."

The last time (and each time) the middle east was stable they were invading Europe. So, !@#$ them.

[Hirohito]

I forgot, we caused those country's leaders to cause mass genocides against their own people. We whispered in their ears and said, "Hey, use poison gas on your own countryman, or line them up and use mass firing squads to kill thousands of your people who you think are a threat to your power....and why you're at it, keep your girls and women from getting educations or doing anything outside the home and treat them like property instead of human beings....they'll really like that....and since you are in power, keep all the income your country brings in for yourself and the privledged few and leave the rest in severe poverty......because you know.....they're not worth it."

 

Yep, America caused all that. That crap has been happening in that part of the world for centuries before North America was even a twinkle in the Vikings eyes!

 

First of all, the amount of people killed by US intervention both direct and indirect has already killed more people combined than any modern Middle Eastern dictator. This includes unrest deaths resulting from the invasion of Iraq, the first invasion in Iraq coupled with encouraging an ill-equipped uprising that was slaughtered - despite the fact the H.W. Bush promised support that never came. Then there is the sectarian violence as a result of the American occupation strategy and overall lack of ability to foster a spirit of support among Sunni and Shia in the region. Don't act as if the US is blameless because of what others have done. There is a cause and effect in anything you do. When your nation is held together by an iron fisted dictator, and someone eliminates that dictator, you better believe I've got some axes to grind with my neighbors.

 

And since we're on the topic of women, the US doesn't have the greatest track record either. Until recently, Rape wasn't considered an act that can cause serious bodily harm and damage, and therefore wasn't permissible for CCW holders to use deadly force. The United States has it's own bad publicity when it comes to Women, and Women's rights. The biggest thing about this argument is that there are always the classic two sides. The "Rah-Rah!" Crowd who will rabbidly defend the federal government, and the status quo. Then there's the "rabble rouser", or someone who generally plays the antagonist and brings up the laundry list of !@#$ that the United States has done wrong. Liberals, Commies, Leftists, whatever you want to call them. Unfortunately for both, there's a third, ever growing group. The Conservative. This person generally takes no sides, disagrees and agrees with both sides and picks his decsions and opinions based on fact, circumstance and the situation. Not a flag. A document, or an ideology or candidate.

 

Look into it.

 

It's not a bash America thread, I'm trying to make a interesting debate. And America, has caused worst problems ever since they got involved.

 

It is a bash America thread. You are essentially disagreeing with every move that the United States has undertaken in the Middle East and providing neither any helpful criticism, suggestions or alternatives. It is by default, a negative thread.

 

Would you rather change 6 million to all of them? It sounds like it. 

 

Since when did disagreeing with the policies and practices of the Israeli State become synonomous with Anto-Semitism?

 

Since when has the Middle East ever been stable? You have to go back to the Tanzimat reforms to even approach "stability." 

 

Stable to me means that there isn't widespread violence, hundreds of thousands of people and children displaced, multiple uses of chemical weapons on civilians, and the widespread increase in radical theological militancy in that region. So in the last 20-30 years yes. The Middle East was stable.

Edited February 8, 2015 by Sindorin

[Fox Fire]

Doesn't matter, this topic isn't about Jew's. It's about America's Middle East efforts.

 

It's not not about Jews...

 

How about Jew's in general? That is what I'm referring to, not Zionists.

 

"America's Efforts in the Middle East"

Israel is in the Middle East. 

 

I should've placed the title "America's and its allies efforts in the Middle East". But still, I wasn't talking about Jew's in General.

 

You have a rare knack for digging yourself into a hole, and then digging it deeper.

 

I completely agree that Israel and Zionism are a destabalizing force in the middle east. Further more, Zionism to me, is just the Jewish equivalent of Nazism.

[Fox Fire]

The biggest thing about this argument is that there are always the classic two sides. The "Rah-Rah!" Crowd who will rabbidly defend the federal government, and the status quo. Then there's the "rabble rouser", or someone who generally plays the antagonist and brings up the laundry list of !@#$ that the United States has done wrong. Liberals, Commies, Leftists, whatever you want to call them. Unfortunately for both, there's a third, ever growing group. The Conservative. This person generally takes no sides, disagrees and agrees with both sides and picks his decsions and opinions based on fact, circumstance and the situation. Not a flag. A document, or an ideology or candidate.

lol. What? What is this I don't even....

[Aisha Greyjoy]

It really does all go back to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.  The British and French are culpable, not America.  Mostly the British.  

[Hirohito]

lol. What? What is this I don't even....

 

Not that hard. Most people in America fit into one or the other category. Some fall outside the box, and think for themselves. Fairly straightforward.

 

It really does all go back to the breakup of the Ottoman Empire.  The British and French are culpable, not America.  Mostly the British.  

 

Partially true. Yes, Britain is at fault for a lot of the sectarian tension by drawing borders based less on tribal and cultural reasons and more on geography. However if you don't have America fighting in Iraq, toppling what little civil society there is, and replacing it with virtually nothing coherent, I'd say they are equally guilty.