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Possible Multies

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Definitely multis, thanks for the report! They've been banned.

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14 hours ago, Alex said:

Definitely multis, thanks for the report! They've been banned.

Yo @Alex could you please explain how exactly was the decision taken that they are multis?

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16 hours ago, Alex said:

Definitely multis, thanks for the report! They've been banned.

Definitely wrong, thanks for kicking some of the few people that actually were involved in your dead game! #FreeLopez

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May I request clarification on what exactly determines if two players are multis, @Alex? I was under the impression that two players on the same IP are perfectly legal in the game unless they begin trading with each other or start mucking around with each other. Victor and Jalisco here are brothers playing from home, hence the same IP here, and at the very minimum, with how much Jalisco flames the hell out of me, they're very different people.

 

As an edit, I checked the game rules, and this was what is said:

image.png.48b8c7f426c000e6bdf055ab18833574.png

Exactly what proof here is that the nations are multis if you've not even gotten the other side of the story?

Edited by Quichwe10
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7 hours ago, Isjaki said:

Yo @Alex could you please explain how exactly was the decision taken that they are multis?

 

5 hours ago, Dominicus Victor said:

Definitely wrong, thanks for kicking some of the few people that actually were involved in your dead game! #FreeLopez

Where the hell you guys came from?

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4 hours ago, Quichwe10 said:

May I request clarification on what exactly determines if two players are multis, @Alex? I was under the impression that two players on the same IP are perfectly legal in the game unless they begin trading with each other or start mucking around with each other. Victor and Jalisco here are brothers playing from home, hence the same IP here, and at the very minimum, with how much Jalisco flames the hell out of me, they're very different people.

 

As an edit, I checked the game rules, and this was what is said:

image.png.48b8c7f426c000e6bdf055ab18833574.png

Exactly what proof here is that the nations are multis if you've not even gotten the other side of the story?

 

7 hours ago, Isjaki said:

Yo @Alex could you please explain how exactly was the decision taken that they are multis?

I've gotten a bunch of PMs about this already. It's very clear to me that it's the same person operating both nations based on:

  • Similar activity patterns
  • Multiple matching IP addresses
  • Frequent use of the same browser (I'm not talking "Google Chrome" here, I can pull device info, browser version, etc. to get a pretty specific fingerprint from users based on how they're accessing the game.)
  • Extremely similar e-mail addresses (think [email protected] and [email protected])

It's against the rules to have multiple nations, regardless of whether you're interacting or not. People who think that they can get away with having multis just because they're not trading between the two nations are wrong, and will be caught eventually.

 

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43 minutes ago, Alex said:

 

I've gotten a bunch of PMs about this already. It's very clear to me that it's the same person operating both nations based on:

  • Similar activity patterns
  • Multiple matching IP addresses
  • Frequent use of the same browser (I'm not talking "Google Chrome" here, I can pull device info, browser version, etc. to get a pretty specific fingerprint from users based on how they're accessing the game.)
  • Extremely similar e-mail addresses (think [email protected] and [email protected]mail.com)

It's against the rules to have multiple nations, regardless of whether you're interacting or not. People who think that they can get away with having multis just because they're not trading between the two nations are wrong, and will be caught eventually.

 

Similar activity is obvious, they are brothers in the same time zone and household. My brother and I always wake up within 10 minutes of each other and go to bed within 15. The IP address is because they are brothers,Families tend to have a preferred way to access things. My family is very big fans of Apple devices and we use safari on our phones to access the browser game. As for email address, dammit it probably is the same person’s email due to the fact that he doesn’t want all the spam in his brothers email or his brother may not be comfortable giving his email to online games that often sell the email addresses to advertisers. Dammit I made up an email for myself to play games and I made my brother one for his games that was similar, though he didn’t take a liking to this game. See they did nothing shady as there is only circumstantial evidence. When you have actual proof such as them trading or warring together, or something I implore you to go ahead as he is doing something wrong but as long as you only have your  circumstantial evidence it is foolish to ban him.

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14 minutes ago, Dominicus Victor said:

Similar activity is obvious, they are brothers in the same time zone and household. My brother and I always wake up within 10 minutes of each other and go to bed within 15. The IP address is because they are brothers,Families tend to have a preferred way to access things. My family is very big fans of Apple devices and we use safari on our phones to access the browser game. As for email address, dammit it probably is the same person’s email due to the fact that he doesn’t want all the spam in his brothers email or his brother may not be comfortable giving his email to online games that often sell the email addresses to advertisers. Dammit I made up an email for myself to play games and I made my brother one for his games that was similar, though he didn’t take a liking to this game. See they did nothing shady as there is only circumstantial evidence. When you have actual proof such as them trading or warring together, or something I implore you to go ahead as he is doing something wrong but as long as you only have your  circumstantial evidence it is foolish to ban him.

That's a lot of very convenient explanations. Sure, it's circumstantial evidence, but there's enough of it to suggest to me that they're the same person operating the accounts.

I'll concede that it's not possible to identify multis correctly 100% of the time, but I believe with this much evidence, I'll be removing actual cheaters from the game far, far more often than two separate innocent players in a convenient freak situation that perfectly matches multi behavior.

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15 minutes ago, Alex said:

That's a lot of very convenient explanations. Sure, it's circumstantial evidence, but there's enough of it to suggest to me that they're the same person operating the accounts.

I'll concede that it's not possible to identify multis correctly 100% of the time, but I believe with this much evidence, I'll be removing actual cheaters from the game far, far more often than two separate innocent players in a convenient freak situation that perfectly matches multi behavior.

Well, your criteria makes it hard for you to distinguish between relatives. You have to admit, many relatives share devices and have similar emails.

Wouldn't it be easier to use verification in cases like these? A sort of post verification that at least gives people a chance to prove their innocence.

I never quite got the idea of preemptive verification, since many nations are on the same network, are not verified, and do not seem to get in trouble. It just seems like more work for everyone involved to verify preemptively and many do not do it.

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To be fair, @Alex, don't you think giving them a nation strike and a chance to go through the verification process would be a better option than kicking them out?

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11 hours ago, Menace said:

Well, your criteria makes it hard for you to distinguish between relatives. You have to admit, many relatives share devices and have similar emails.

Wouldn't it be easier to use verification in cases like these? A sort of post verification that at least gives people a chance to prove their innocence.

I never quite got the idea of preemptive verification, since many nations are on the same network, are not verified, and do not seem to get in trouble. It just seems like more work for everyone involved to verify preemptively and many do not do it.

There is a verification process in the game for multiple people on the same IP address: https://politicsandwar.com/account/verification/

If they're unwilling to do that, then they can't complain when they get banned for multiple accounts on the same IP.

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1 hour ago, Conner Temple said:

There is a verification process in the game for multiple people on the same IP address: https://politicsandwar.com/account/verification/

If they're unwilling to do that, then they can't complain when they get banned for multiple accounts on the same IP.

Instead of saying sucks for them, we could try to make the system more fair and efficient by using verification after suspicion of having multiple nations.

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29 minutes ago, Menace said:

Instead of saying sucks for them, we could try to make the system more fair and efficient by using verification after suspicion of having multiple nations.

the system is fair if you take the time to follow it 

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would like to report the nation Viribus, but not for multis. No, I am reporting him for vulgarity in a Declaration of War. He declared war on IUIC of Order of the Fallen Angels with the reason being "frick you prick."

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1 hour ago, Changeup said:

would like to report the nation Viribus, but not for multis. No, I am reporting him for vulgarity in a Declaration of War. He declared war on IUIC of Order of the Fallen Angels with the reason being "frick you prick."

@Changeup It would be better you made your own post, where you report him. Where you leave his nation link, and possible a screenshot of the remark. Else you can message Alex in game. 

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On 8/7/2019 at 8:21 PM, Alex said:

That's a lot of very convenient explanations. Sure, it's circumstantial evidence, but there's enough of it to suggest to me that they're the same person operating the accounts.

I'll concede that it's not possible to identify multis correctly 100% of the time, but I believe with this much evidence, I'll be removing actual cheaters from the game far, far more often than two separate innocent players in a convenient freak situation that perfectly matches multi behavior.

What happened to innocent until proven guilty, what happened to without a reasonable doubt, what happened to letting 99 guilty go if it kept 1 person from being falsely accused? Circumstantial evidence is not enough especially in this case when there are excuses for every single charge being brought against them as such banning them is wrong morally and and simply incorrect as they have done no wrong and you have no substantial evidence against them. 

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On 8/9/2019 at 1:33 PM, Dominicus Victor said:

What happened to innocent until proven guilty, what happened to without a reasonable doubt, what happened to letting 99 guilty go if it kept 1 person from being falsely accused? Circumstantial evidence is not enough especially in this case when there are excuses for every single charge being brought against them as such banning them is wrong morally and and simply incorrect as they have done no wrong and you have no substantial evidence against them. 

Well, this isn't a criminal justice system, this is an online browser game.

I'll never have 100% surety that anyone is a multi. It's not like I can sit behind people in real life and watch them make and operate multis. If we went by your system, everyone could have as many multis as they want and just say "hey, it's my brother, don't ban us we're totally different people I promise" and the game would be very unfair and broken.

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