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Tell me how Communism is bad

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Your assertion is correct. Milton only has the power to remember a very limited amount of posts back. He also struggles to deal with people answering him and others at the same time and starts thinking it all is in response to him. Like if I had a response to him here too and I was say, saying that you lied about something, he'd post in saying that he never lied about said something. Just a very silly character this Milton. To assume it is trolling is a kindness. 

 

He is also a Communist who won't admit it openly out of shame yes. Another one of those around here but he ain't as bad as Milton. 

 

I'm not sure it goes that far.

 

It's feasible he's a sarcastic agent provocateur who's lost track of what he's doing.  He could be trying to present a strawman communist position in order to convince others to be anti-communist.

 

It's like trolling, but not really.

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Reganomics failed yet deflation decreased, employment soared, the GDP increased and the largest economical peacetime expansion in American history happened. Oh, it definitely served the wealthy quite nicely and has little pieces of the bad policy Republicans put forward in the modern period. Decrease taxes, increase spending and add in austerity. Instead Obama used limited socialism to both end W's Great Recession, keep several industries alive and even made the US a good deal of profit.

 

You can continue to say this as you like but it's basically your two words against my facts.Even economists disagree with you Milton. And many economists agree with me. That's usually the problem with economists.

 

 

Mate, I expanded the topic to ideology in general.  You're free to do that and I'm free to ignore it and continue posting about the stated topic. The questions I asked you were to see if you were reasonable in general in your treatment of ideology.

 

Communism doesn't get special treatment just because.  It gets critiqued the same way as any other ideology out there. I don't believe I asked for special treatment beyond noting that no Marxist state has occurred thus far so there's no real data to review.

 

 

I'm not sure it goes that far.

 

It's feasible he's a sarcastic agent provocateur who's lost track of what he's doing.  He could be trying to present a strawman communist position in order to convince others to be anti-communist. I often argue from points other than my personal stances. It's perfectly reasonable to consider an idea, argue for or against it without making it your own.

 

It's like trolling, but not really. What I do is definitely less trolling than Roz does as if it's a bodily function and requires moderators and administrators to clear things up for him.

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So I am the spewer of troll nonsense? Glad to know that the Roz holds me in such high esteem. 

 

Big Brother is relatively consistent, for all that one might say against his views. No to mention his avatar is not a seizure-inducing stupidity. 

 

No. That was addressed to Milton hence why the first bit was above your quote while the second bit (addressed to you) was below it.

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Can we cut out the idiotic red text in quotes? It's downright obnoxious. No. It'd be pretty weird not being able to tell which is quote and which is response without it.

 

 

"Oh, it definitely served the wealthy quite nicely and has little pieces of the bad policy Republicans put forward in the modern period. Decrease taxes, increase spending and add in austerity. Instead Obama used limited socialism to both end W's Great Recession, keep several industries alive and even made the US a good deal of profit."

 

The economy recovered and that's really the only thing that matters. Interesting opinion. It's not the only thing that matters when you mention socialism to a group of like ten Americans and they start ranting about how it can't work and so on and so on. We now have a lot of data points making it clear that socialism can work, and that it often does so much better than capitalism.

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"Interesting opinion"

 

That's just a lazy response to the numerous facts backing Reganomics in the article I've provided.You're not even trying to properly counter my points, you're just saying that socialism is better than capitalism.

 

" It's not the only thing that matters when you mention socialism to a group of like ten Americans and they start ranting about how it can't work and so on and so on."

 

And how are those ten Americans relevant to the discussion?

 

"We now have a lot of data points making it clear that socialism can work, and that it often does so much better than capitalism."

You do realize that Marxism/=/Socialism, right?

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You're free to do that and I'm free to ignore it and continue posting about the stated topic. 

 

I don't believe I asked for special treatment beyond noting that no Marxist state has occurred thus far so there's no real data to review.

 

I often argue from points other than my personal stances. It's perfectly reasonable to consider an idea, argue for or against it without making it your own.

 

That's like saying if we're debating the definition of a square, you're going to ignore the definition of a shape.  Communism is an element in the set of ideologies.  You don't get to ignore the conditions that the overarching category depends on.  When you do, that suggests you're looking for special treatment.

 

A bad idea isn't defined by whether data exists to review of it or not as well.  If that was the case, then no ideas would ever get to be put into practice in the first place since there was never an original data set to consider.  Experience can't be learned from experience ad infinitum.  If anything, you should consider this as leniency because it suggests openmindedness to the potential of communism making sense despite how it hasn't been previously practiced successfully.  

 

(As for your red text usage, it's obnoxious because it makes it a pain in the neck to quote, especially in this forum's formatting.)

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"Interesting opinion"

 

That's just a lazy response to the numerous facts backing Reganomics in the article I've provided.You're not even trying to properly counter my points, you're just saying that socialism is better than capitalism. You're no more likely to change your opinion than anyone else.  You provided a single source that's not of much use, IMO.

" It's not the only thing that matters when you mention socialism to a group of like ten Americans and they start ranting about how it can't work and so on and so on."

 

And how are those ten Americans relevant to the discussion? Their phobic reactions to anything but strict capitalism even though we're already partially socialist.

 

"We now have a lot of data points making it clear that socialism can work, and that it often does so much better than capitalism."

You do realize that Marxism/=/Socialism, right? Yes. That other fellow decided to expand what we were talking about so I'm doing that.

 

 

That's like saying if we're debating the definition of a square, you're going to ignore the definition of a shape.  Communism is an element in the set of ideologies.  You don't get to ignore the conditions that the overarching category depends on.  When you do, that suggests you're looking for special treatment. I don't ignore them. I point out, in fact, that the conditions the overarching category depends on have never been reached when attempting it.

 

A bad idea isn't defined by whether data exists to review of it or not as well.  If that was the case, then no ideas would ever get to be put into practice in the first place since there was never an original data set to consider.  Experience can't be learned from experience ad infinitum.  If anything, you should consider this as leniency because it suggests openmindedness to the potential of communism making sense despite how it hasn't been previously practiced successfully.  It hasn't been tried so far.

 

(As for your red text usage, it's obnoxious because it makes it a pain in the neck to quote, especially in this forum's formatting.) We all have problems.

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I don't ignore them. I point out, in fact, that the conditions the overarching category depends on have never been reached when attempting it.

 

It hasn't been tried so far.

 

We all have problems.

 

That doesn't even make sense.  Ideology doesn't have conditions to be reached when attempting.  Ideologies are just concepts on how society should be structured.  Communism is one of these concepts.

 

Attempts are subject to interference.  That's why we don't expect evidence when seeing if an ideology is good or not.  You could have a good ideology that's interfered with, so it doesn't work out because of that interference.  

 

Maybe we all have problems, but that doesn't mean you should make more problems for people to have.

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"You're no more likely to change your opinion than anyone else."

That's irrelevant. Relevant to me. You're welcome to differ.

 

"You provided a single source that's not of much use, IMO."

I hate when you do this mental gymnastics.When I provide solid facts that crush your arguments, instead of trying to argue against the facts or provide facts to counter the said facts like a normal mature person, you just dismiss it as if it actually does anything which​ no,it doesn't. A bad source is a bad source. *shrug*

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

Feel free to read it, whether or not you want to accept it is really not my problem. I have plenty of economists that agree with me. You presumably have some that agree with you. As I said, it's a problem with economists.

 

"Their phobic reactions to anything but strict capitalism even though we're already partially socialist."

 

They're irrelevant to the discussion. Disagree

 

 

That doesn't even make sense.  Ideology doesn't have conditions to be reached when attempting.  Ideologies are just concepts on how society should be structured.  Communism is one of these concepts. And includes pre-conditions for valid attempts. For example: absence of a state. Has there been one attempt that did that? Nope. How about needing to come as a result of strongly advanced capitalist systems to be instituted. Ever done? Nope.

 

Attempts are subject to interference.  That's why we don't expect evidence when seeing if an ideology is good or not.  You could have a good ideology that's interfered with, so it doesn't work out because of that interference.  We is a strong term for three people.

 

Maybe we all have problems, but that doesn't mean you should make more problems for people to have. I don't go out of my way to do it, but if it causes problems I don't concern myself with it.

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". A bad source is a bad source. *shrug*"

 

I'm just loving this.Wikipedia is apparently a bad source now because it contains a plethora of facts that disprove you.Now you're just falling for the Trump meme.At this point it's not even worth bothering with.

 

"Anything that doesn't confirm me is fake news"

 

"

And includes pre-conditions for valid attempts. For example: absence of a state. Has there been one attempt that did that?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory

 

 

"Disagree"

 

Irrelevant to me, feel free to differ.

 

"Relevant to me. You're welcome to differ."

Totally disagree.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

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And includes pre-conditions for valid attempts. For example: absence of a state. Has there been one attempt that did that? Nope. How about needing to come as a result of strongly advanced capitalist systems to be instituted. Ever done? Nope.

 

You do realize those attempts won't happen because people will want proof of the ideology's success before being willing to attempt it, right?

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You do realize those attempts won't happen because people will want proof of the ideology's success before being willing to attempt it, right?

No. I suspect it'll come naturally. There was a time capitalism wasn't a proven thing and now here we are.

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". A bad source is a bad source. *shrug*"

 

I'm just loving this.Wikipedia is apparently a bad source now because it contains a plethora of facts that disprove you.Now you're just falling for the Trump meme.At this point it's not even worth bothering with.I didn't say the entirety of Wikipedia. I said that link (and article.)

 

"Anything that doesn't confirm me is fake news" Never said or claimed this. Did Roz buy your account?

 

"

And includes pre-conditions for valid attempts. For example: absence of a state. Has there been one attempt that did that?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune That's the famous attempt at anarchism in France, not anything to do with it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory This is a less famous example of attempting anarchism.

 

 

"Disagree"

 

Irrelevant to me, feel free to differ.

 

"Relevant to me. You're welcome to differ."

Totally disagree.Cool

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No. I suspect it'll come naturally.

 

Suspicions aren't convictions.  That's wishful thinking.

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"I didn't say the entirety of Wikipedia. I said that link (and article.)

 

These are facts.I provided a credible source and instead of arguing against the facts you just claimed it's fake (which is false)in a desperate attempt to gain points for your argument.This is just becoming pointless now tbh.

https://www.google.co.za/search?q=Reaganomics+result&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUnKezk_3TAhVCySYKHRZKBUQQvwUINQ

It's all in these sources that you can read.If you can't provide any reason or proof Reganomics failed then I'm done here.

 

"Never said or claimed this. Did Roz buy your account?"

Stop.I never claimed you said that.I said you're falling for the fake news meme.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

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Suspicions aren't convictions.  That's wishful thinking. We disagree. No biggie.

 

 

"I didn't say the entirety of Wikipedia. I said that link (and article.)

 

These are facts.I provided a credible source and instead of arguing against the facts you just claimed it's fake (which is false)in a desperate attempt to gain points for your argument.This is just becoming pointless now tbh.You're welcome to stop.

https://www.google.co.za/search?q=Reaganomics+result&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUnKezk_3TAhVCySYKHRZKBUQQvwUINQ

It's all in these sources that you can read.If you can't provide any reason or proof Reganomics failed then I'm done here. Bye!

 

"Never said or claimed this. Did Roz buy your account?"

Stop.I never claimed you said that.I said you're falling for the fake news meme. Sorry, between the terrible posts from Roz and you it can get hard to follow who's lying to whom about what.

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facepalm

The funniest part about this is, you still haven't proved me wrong.You're welcome to block me if the horror of disagreement is too much.I have no problem with not talking to you, your call.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

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Because it runs into heavy free rider problems (people not working because they'll get the same amount of income regardless).

 

Historically, this problem has been counteracted via use of totalitarianism in order to force people to work...but if you have to ask why it's bad, you probably meant communism without a totalitarian government forcing the populace into slavery.

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There's no such school of coinmmunism

 

UBI is basically going to have to work or we're going to not have an economy in a few decades.

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There's no such school of coinmmunism

"Coins are sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as they are the spirit of a spiritless situation. They are the opium of the people." -Marx

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