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So we're I believe a day away from the election there so I thought I'd create the thread now. From memory polling has for a long time had Wilder's party of one on top but he has fallen below the ruling party now and then... though ... how much can we trust that really? Also courtesy of Sultan Erdogan, Wilders likely has gotten a shot in the arm and with the system they have over there as it is even a 1% boost in votes is I believe 2 extra seats.

 

Wilders if you haven't read his 1 page manifesto basically has put forward he will ban Islam and deport most of the Muslims out. However unless he wins 51% of the vote he will have a hard time forming a winning coalition as the others can all band together in a coalition to deny him. Two minor parties haven't ruled out helping him on that but they only represent at most 5% of the vote so he'd need to get the other 46% needed. 

 

Regardless if he can form a government or not simply being the largest party on a ticket that aims to outlaw Islam would send massive shock waves throughout the world. Post your thoughts, predictions, or whatever on the matter. My personal thoughts is Wilders is very extreme and dramatic however him winning would push that Overton window in others countries to where it should be so we can handle the problems we face on these issues.

 

 

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Had to acknowledge a warning for this in order to write so I better get some praise for that.

Honestly? I don't know. It's Proportional voting so it's most definitely going to go to coalition negotiation, it just depends on who has the better word. The GroenLinks party popped out of nowhere and is now going to be a key factor in negotiation to form governments. Almost every party is expected to gain/lose only 2-4 seats, so it'll be fun watching the game of 4-party coalition deals happening.

'tis why I prefer FTV and not PLP election systems, makes life so much easier.

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Geert Wilders is a cuck

Edited by Ogaden

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Geert Wilders is a cuck

 

Save that for if he wins. Bit too early to go loopy.

 

Had to acknowledge a warning for this in order to write so I better get some praise for that.

 

Honestly? I don't know. It's Proportional voting so it's most definitely going to go to coalition negotiation, it just depends on who has the better word. The GroenLinks party popped out of nowhere and is now going to be a key factor in negotiation to form governments. Almost every party is expected to gain/lose only 2-4 seats, so it'll be fun watching the game of 4-party coalition deals happening.

 

'tis why I prefer FTV and not PLP election systems, makes life so much easier.

 

The majority of parties have already said they if PVV is the largest party they will band together against him so him actually having any control is very unlikely yes due to the system, which is effective at keeping the establishment in charge, in place. However simply doing well enough to register as significant is enough and hey, makes it all too easy to make it appear everyone is corrupt for joining up together against him. 

 

Polls recently have moved against Wilders it seems but we'll see how on the money they will be. 

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Polls were pretty on the money. Rutte won(or will look to be winning) by more than expected not too dissimilar to Van der Bellen in Austria. Dominoes to me look like they're slowly starting to swing the other way. With back to back victories on the Mainland I think this is going to show a stronger message for the remaining electorate across Europe as a whole

 

VVD looks to have lost some seats(about 10 or so) but so far still looks to be retaining the most. PvdA got completely demolished and apparently their loss was the Green's gain..

Edited by Jose Rodriguez III

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This is a war and by all means this was a reasonable victory for the center and the right as ground was claimed. A war that will be won by them as well as the left is just going to keep making the situation dire forcing more people to open their eyes. 

Edited by Lightning

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Polls were pretty on the money. Rutte won(or will look to be winning) by more than expected not too dissimilar to Van der Bellen in Austria. Dominoes to me look like they're slowly starting to swing the other way. With back to back victories on the Mainland I think this is going to show a stronger message for the remaining electorate across Europe as a whole

 

VVD looks to have lost some seats(about 10 or so) but so far still looks to be retaining the most. PvdA got completely demolished and apparently their loss was the Green's gain..

 

As Wilders said, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. If the problems that exist aren't addressed then those groups will only grow stronger and stronger. From the current projection the PVV increased its seat count by 25% which is not insignificant. Le Pen still looms but France's system is a tough one also yeah.

 

You're talking of the so called "Jessiah" I believe. Looks like a typical Blair like guy to me but yeah... they care about green issues over there and those parties saw a big increase in their vote counts. 

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This is a war and by all means this was a reasonable victory for the center and the right as ground was claimed. A war that will be won by them as well as the left is just going to keep making the situation dire forcing more people to open their eyes. 

Oh yes, but the left made more ground than anyone else. GroenLinken gained 400%, D66 gained 7 seats, Christian Democratic Union (which isn't right-wing per American Standard) was up 6. The only losses were from the coalition, mostly due to the fact that the leader of the Labour Party focused on EU issues as opposed to domestic issues and pissed a bunch of people off as a result. Even my liberal ass wouldn't have voted for him.

 

The only people that need to "open their eyes" are the people that think this is a ground-breaking gain for the PVV. This isn't even the best result the PVV had. Back in 2010 they lead opposition with 24 seats, netting a gain of 15 seats.

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Oh yes, but the left made more ground than anyone else. GroenLinken gained 400%, D66 gained 7 seats, Christian Democratic Union (which isn't right-wing per American Standard) was up 6. The only losses were from the coalition, mostly due to the fact that the leader of the Labour Party focused on EU issues as opposed to domestic issues and pissed a bunch of people off as a result. Even my liberal ass wouldn't have voted for him.

 

The only people that need to "open their eyes" are the people that think this is a ground-breaking gain for the PVV. This isn't even the best result the PVV had. Back in 2010 they lead opposition with 24 seats, netting a gain of 15 seats.

 The people who vote for the left still need to open their eyes though, they're going blind. Regardless I'd argue Europe is more cucked than America so this sort of gain with a hardline message even more powerful than Trump is a move in the right direction, its only a matter of time now.

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He'll just get arrested more. He deserves it. He'd be violating treaties and domestic laws if he actually tried to follow-through with this insanity.

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Geert Wilder lost the election. Nothing much can be discussed regarding this. His approach to Islam isn't a kind we need to address the problems within Islam. I'd love to have more of public discussions to tackle the problems in Islam, instead of demonizing the whole group for the acts of certain individuals within that group, though.

 

In my humble opinion, having more of public discourses to address the problems within Islam will be the best kind of approach to Islam. Isolating Islam and Muslims, in particular, will only breed more and more violence and extremism. It's about the time to push the reform in Islam from within. Let the Muslim scholars renounce the violent and troubling parts of Islam from within and not otherwise.

Edited by Luckynako
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Geert Wilder lost the election. Nothing much can be discussed regarding this. His approach to Islam isn't a kind we need to address the problems within Islam. I'd love to have more of public discussions to tackle the problems in Islam, instead of demonizing the whole group for the acts of certain individuals within that group, though.

 

In my humble opinion, having more of public discourses to address the problems within Islam will be the best kind of approach to Islam. Isolating Islam and Muslims, in particular, will only breed more and more violence and extremism. It's about the time to push the reform in Islam from within. Let the Muslim scholars renounce the violent and troubling parts of Islam from within and not otherwise.

Well its not just your opinion, its quite popular but the problem is the left isn't supporting Muslims and ex-Muslims speaking out about the religion. They'd actually call them Islamaphobes. 

Islam needs to die, just needs someone to ignite the fire and we can get to work. 

Edited by Lightning

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Oh yes, but the left made more ground than anyone else. GroenLinken gained 400%, D66 gained 7 seats, Christian Democratic Union (which isn't right-wing per American Standard) was up 6. The only losses were from the coalition, mostly due to the fact that the leader of the Labour Party focused on EU issues as opposed to domestic issues and pissed a bunch of people off as a result. Even my liberal ass wouldn't have voted for him.

 

The only people that need to "open their eyes" are the people that think this is a ground-breaking gain for the PVV. This isn't even the best result the PVV had. Back in 2010 they lead opposition with 24 seats, netting a gain of 15 seats.

 

I'm pretty sure the left just cannibalised each other so they just shifted the numbers around a bit (due to the coalition system there really isn't much difference in voting for one or the other). The gains for the PVV were straight up gains. 

 

He'll just get arrested more. He deserves it. He'd be violating treaties and domestic laws if he actually tried to follow-through with this insanity.

 

Just things would be completely irrelevant if he did straight up get 51%. As for getting arrested I believe you've made talk of this before and like I told you then, caution. Arresting Wilders only strengthens him. The other option some have taken to wanting is for him to be killed which is a roll of the dice ultimately. No successor is in place and if no steps forward then the rage at such an event would disappear in time. However if someone does step up, say a guy with a good look who knows how to work the mic... then it could be catastrophic. He would enjoy the mass of support Wilders build up and have none of the baggage. 

 

In my humble opinion, having more of public discourses to address the problems within Islam will be the best kind of approach to Islam. Isolating Islam and Muslims, in particular, will only breed more and more violence and extremism. It's about the time to push the reform in Islam from within. Let the Muslim scholars renounce the violent and troubling parts of Islam from within and not otherwise.

 

The Conservative Muslims have supremacy as they have been allowed to have it. We need to treat them as we would treat others and remove their current protections when it comes to ridiculous and such to start... then hammer them for matters such as their Schools and Mosques when it comes to sexism and racism, the matter of apostates being in danger for their lives and property, and more.

 

Its my belief that once you take away the fear instilled in people that they cannot leave Islam and if they do then they better be afraid then you castrate the whole thing. Conservatives can continue to have their Islam as is if they like but they will simply bleed followers in a big way as a result. Once enough of that has happened they will be forced to reform as the alternative is just continuing to lose followers. 

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Well its not just your opinion, its quite popular but the problem is the left isn't supporting Muslims and ex-Muslims speaking out about the religion. They'd actually call them Islamaphobes. 

Islam needs to die, just needs someone to ignite the fire and we can get to work. 

 

I think there's a growing number of liberals supporting the idea of having sort of public discourses to scrutinize and criticize Islam taking place in public. I don't think it's fair to paint all liberals with the same brush as their regressive counterparts.

 

I'm pretty sure the left just cannibalised each other so they just shifted the numbers around a bit (due to the coalition system there really isn't much difference in voting for one or the other). The gains for the PVV were straight up gains. 

 

 

Just things would be completely irrelevant if he did straight up get 51%. As for getting arrested I believe you've made talk of this before and like I told you then, caution. Arresting Wilders only strengthens him. The other option some have taken to wanting is for him to be killed which is a roll of the dice ultimately. No successor is in place and if no steps forward then the rage at such an event would disappear in time. However if someone does step up, say a guy with a good look who knows how to work the mic... then it could be catastrophic. He would enjoy the mass of support Wilders build up and have none of the baggage. 

 

 

The Conservative Muslims have supremacy as they have been allowed to have it. We need to treat them as we would treat others and remove their current protections when it comes to ridiculous and such to start... then hammer them for matters such as their Schools and Mosques when it comes to sexism and racism, the matter of apostates being in danger for their lives and property, and more.

 

Its my belief that once you take away the fear instilled in people that they cannot leave Islam and if they do then they better be afraid then you castrate the whole thing. Conservatives can continue to have their Islam as is if they like but they will simply bleed followers in a big way as a result. Once enough of that has happened they will be forced to reform as the alternative is just continuing to lose followers. 

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page in regard to Islam. I do have sort of disgust towards the violent and troubling parts of Islam.

 

However, we have quite different views regarding our approach towards Islam. You seem to like going hard against Islam and Muslims in particular. While I'd rather go soft and have sort of discussions with them regarding the troubling aspects of Islam. I believe we can finally push many Muslim scholars to renounce many troubling aspects of Islam. But first, we should be able to sit together with them and discuss these matters, rather than isolating and ignoring them from any public discourses that might help us renounce many troubling aspects of Islam.

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I think there's a growing number of liberals supporting the idea of having sort of public discourses to scrutinize and criticize Islam taking place in public. I don't think it's fair to paint all liberals with the same brush as their regressive counterparts.

 

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page in regard to Islam. I do have sort of disgust towards the violent and troubling parts of Islam.

 

However, we have quite different views regarding our approach towards Islam. You seem to like going hard against Islam and Muslims in particular. While I'd rather go soft and have sort of discussions with them regarding the troubling aspects of Islam. I believe we can finally push many Muslim scholars to renounce many troubling aspects of Islam. But first, we should be able to sit together with them and discuss these matters, rather than isolating and ignoring them from any public discourses that might help us renounce many troubling aspects of Islam.

^^ this. 

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Well its not just your opinion, its quite popular but the problem is the left isn't supporting Muslims and ex-Muslims speaking out about the religion. They'd actually call them Islamaphobes. 

Islam needs to die, just needs someone to ignite the fire and we can get to work. 

The left isn't an organization, it's just a grouping of people with similar views. Islam isn't going to die and the fact that you want to kill 1.1 billion people for the actions of like 1,000 is pretty disgusting.

 

Just things would be completely irrelevant if he did straight up get 51%. They wouldn't, actually.  As for getting arrested I believe you've made talk of this before and like I told you then, caution. Arresting Wilders only strengthens him. I don't really care what you've said he's not going to be immune to the laws of his country. The other option some have taken to wanting is for him to be killed which is a roll of the dice ultimately. No successor is in place and if no steps forward then the rage at such an event would disappear in time. However if someone does step up, say a guy with a good look who knows how to work the mic... then it could be catastrophic. He would enjoy the mass of support Wilders build up and have none of the baggage. 

 

.

The Conservative Muslims have supremacy as they have been allowed to have it. We need to treat them as we would treat others and remove their current protections when it comes to ridiculous and such to start... then hammer them for matters such as their Schools and Mosques when it comes to sexism and racism, the matter of apostates being in danger for their lives and property, and more. No, they absolutely don't have supremacy. I believe they're entitled to run their own schools and mosques.

 

Its my belief that once you take away the fear instilled in people that they cannot leave Islam and if they do then they better be afraid then you castrate the whole thing. Conservatives can continue to have their Islam as is if they like but they will simply bleed followers in a big way as a result. Once enough of that has happened they will be forced to reform as the alternative is just continuing to lose followers. Who has fear?

 

 

I think there's a growing number of liberals supporting the idea of having sort of public discourses to scrutinize and criticize Islam taking place in public. I don't think it's fair to paint all liberals with the same brush as their regressive counterparts. But there's enough Islamic attackers in the 1.1 billion Muslims worldwide to treat them as a unit?

 

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page in regard to Islam. I do have sort of disgust towards the violent and troubling parts of Islam.

 

However, we have quite different views regarding our approach towards Islam. You seem to like going hard against Islam and Muslims in particular. While I'd rather go soft and have sort of discussions with them regarding the troubling aspects of Islam. I believe we can finally push many Muslim scholars to renounce many troubling aspects of Islam. But first, we should be able to sit together with them and discuss these matters, rather than isolating and ignoring them from any public discourses that might help us renounce many troubling aspects of Islam.

 

 

^^ this. 

Yeah, better persecute those people so they can wipe us out.

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"I believe they're entitled to run their own schools and mosques."

 

As immigrants/refuges,no.As citizens residing in their place of birth,sure.

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Immigrants and refugees should be able to do so too. Lots of the people we allow to enter the country we do so with the expectation that they have a good deal of money and will likely start businesses here. There's no reason to stop people building religious buildings either

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Yeah, better persecute those people so they can wipe us out.

 

Here where you got wrong, I've never claimed that all Muslims are terrorists nor did I ever say that all Muslim should be held accountable for the violent acts done by their fellow Muslims. What I tried to argue was that we and liberals, in particular, need to acknowledge the violent and troubling parts of Islam as a religion rather than to shield it from any criticism and scrutiny. In my humble opinion, excluding Islam from any criticism and scrutiny doesn't contribute well to our public conversations.

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Here where you got wrong, I've never claimed that all Muslims are terrorists nor did I ever say that all Muslim should be held accountable for the violent acts done by their fellow Muslims. What I tried to argue was that we and liberals, in particular, need to acknowledge the violent and troubling parts of Islam as a religion rather than to shield it from any criticism and scrutiny. In my humble opinion, excluding Islam from any criticism and scrutiny doesn't contribute well to our public conversations.

 

I never claimed you did. We wouldn't need to shield it if people weren't constantly attacking the billion followers for the actions of like 20 at a time.

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I never claimed you did. We wouldn't need to shield it if people weren't constantly attacking the billion followers for the actions of like 20 at a time.

 

I don't think criticizing and scrutinizing equal to attacking them, though. What did you mean by "attacking" then?

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I never claimed you did. We wouldn't need to shield it if people weren't constantly attacking the billion followers for the actions of like 20 at a time.

Wait a second,why do the "modern" leftists constantly shield Islam (despite Islam being against literally everything the left stands for),but are quick to attack the right,which barely does anything,compared to the Islamic extremists?

Edited by Vincent de Beer

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I never claimed you did. We wouldn't need to shield it if people weren't constantly attacking the billion followers for the actions of like 20 at a time.

And yet, that's what Everytown, Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and a billion other organizations do. 

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And yet, that's what Everytown, Bloomberg, Moms Demand Action, and a billion other organizations do.

Yep,the right is completely evil,and right wing terrorism is the most deadly form of terrorism.

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I don't think criticizing and scrutinizing equal to attacking them, though. What did you mean by "attacking" then?

We're bombing (at last count on my part) like seven Muslim countries at any given time.

 

Wait a second,why do the "modern" leftists constantly shield Islam (despite Islam being against literally everything the left stands for),but are quick to attack the right,which barely does anything,compared to the Islamic extremists?

Because they're allowed to believe whatever crazy shit they want as long as it doesn't affect others. Islam doesn't (unless you want to count fractions of fractions of people as representatives of Islam). The right kills a lot more people than Muslims in the US.

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