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Adalbert

No Führer?

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Now I'm not one to condone the actions of Nazism or Adolf Hitler. Nor am I to say that I support their cause/actions. However, I do have to disagree with your banning of the use of both !@#$ and Führer in the nation's leader title. Just because you don't support something doesn't mean it should be banned from your website. Politics & War is a nation simulation game based around simply put.. The simulating of nations! This requires immersion to play as such nations, and the removal of certain names or titles based on their historical controversy simply destroys that experience. In a nation game, does it not seem odd that you can't play under something as simple as a true historical title? That's like saying that because Britain once enslaved people that no one should be allowed to play as Britain.

 

I understand that you do not endorse nazism, or approve of that time period. But in a game meant to be played as an immersive experience, it seems odd that you would enforce such views on those who want to immerse themselves in something that is historical, and factual. Made-up titles is one thing, and there is immersion to that (I'm not denying that at all). But forcing players to be unable to play as something because of your own beliefs or because of the controversy it may create is simply put: An immediate break in immersion.

 

Thank you for listening,

 

For those of you who are unwilling to listen to reason and/or think with nothing but emotion rather than take my words into account:

Please direct all hate mail to my inbox.

 

Please use the comments for counter-argument or constructive criticism rather than blatant attacks or emotion-based reactions. Thank you.

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Wouldn't he be fined and not permitted to have any German players if that stuff was included?

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Wouldn't he be fined and not permitted to have any German players if that stuff was included?

 

Of course not, the American government does not place nearly as many regulations on the internet as they do in reality. And in both cases the use of [email protected]#$ is not banned nor can they be fined for it.

Edited by Adalbert

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I meant !@#$ and The !@#$ formerly known as Shicklegruber. Germany's got some serious laws against Nazi shit of any kind and is not shy about bringing you to court or attempting to bankrupt your company over it.

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I meant [email protected]#$ and The [email protected]#$ formerly known as Shicklegruber. Germany's got some serious laws against Nazi shit of any kind and is not shy about bringing you to court or attempting to bankrupt your company over it.

 

Isn't he an American-based company? Then Germany cannot convict him of laws since they do not have control over American interests, business, or internet. And if they attempt to fight it in court - No judicial system would convict / find guilty such a small company for something so minor. (Especially since the said company is American - which means Germany cannot govern or control it with its own laws in any way, shape, or form)

Edited by Adalbert

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IIRC, there was a lawyer back in Alpha (Beta?) that got into one of these arguments and said PaW wouldn't be fined, but the IP would be banned in Germany. 

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That seems like not that big of a deal - Seeing as how a majority of the community isn't German.

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That seems like not that big of a deal - Seeing as how a majority of the community isn't German.

You basically said "The majority of people here won't be offended by Nazis, because their country wasn't the origin of Nazism.

 

Are you stupid? It's not just Germans who are affected by Nazis, it was practically the entire world. (Hence the name "World War")

 

So what if I made a nation that was anti-semetic and basically pretended to be Hitler by writing about how I did the holocaust and that everyone who isn't the Aryan race should be gased or tortured?!

 

And you WONDER why Nazism isn't allowed...

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You basically said "The majority of people here won't be offended by Nazis, because their country wasn't the origin of Nazism.

 

Are you stupid? It's not just Germans who are affected by Nazis, it was practically the entire world. (Hence the name "World War")

 

So what if I made a nation that was anti-semetic and basically pretended to be Hitler by writing about how I did the holocaust and that everyone who isn't the Aryan race should be gased or tortured?!

 

And you WONDER why Nazism isn't allowed...

 

Just because something was wrong doesn't mean you should force that on others - Its a nation simulation game, that includes tragedies. Get over it. If you're so opposed to it then kill the nation doing it, but don't straight up ban it from the community. And yes I do wonder, because last time I checked we all had the right to follow our own beliefs and ideologies, and you can hold those beliefs and ideologies and argue their value, if they are right or wrong, and other such but to straight up ban them because you disagree with them is just wrong.

Edited by Adalbert

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Isn't he an American-based company? Then Germany cannot convict him of laws since they do not have control over American interests, business, or internet. And if they attempt to fight it in court - No judicial system would convict / find guilty such a small company for something so minor. (Especially since the said company is American - which means Germany cannot govern or control it with its own laws in any way, shape, or form)

Doesn't matter if he's America-based. Germany doesn't need to convict him of shit to have his server blocked in Germany

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Just because something was wrong doesn't mean you should force that on others - Its a nation simulation game, that includes tragedies. Get over it. If you're so opposed to it then kill the nation doing it, but don't straight up ban it from the community. And yes I do wonder, because last time I checked we all had the right to follow our own beliefs and ideologies, and you can hold those beliefs and ideologies and argue their value, if they are right or wrong, and other such but to straight up ban them because you disagree with them is just wrong.

Unless the government took this action (our government) there's no rights or freedoms being denied to you.

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Doesn't matter if he's America-based. Germany doesn't need to convict him of shit to have his server blocked in Germany

 

And so what? To preserve the luxury of freedom of speech, and American values and a foreign country then blocking you for it - That would look bad for Germany not P&W

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Just because something was wrong doesn't mean you should force that on others - Its a nation simulation game, that includes tragedies. Get over it. If you're so opposed to it then kill the nation doing it, but don't straight up ban it from the community. And yes I do wonder, because last time I checked we all had the right to follow our own beliefs and ideologies, and you can hold those beliefs and ideologies and argue their value, if they are right or wrong, and other such but to straight up ban them because you disagree with them is just wrong.

Ok you may not agree with the rules but that doesn't mean you should throw your opinions on us and claim that it's Alex's fault for not allowing that. If you don't like the rules, then leave the game and make your own.

 

Just because you have the free will to make your name Hitler of the Nazi 3rd Reich does not mean you have a right to do so.

 

Open your eyes and brace yourself, because the entire world runs on rules that you have to follow, even if you don't like them.

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lol, "IP would be banned in Germany".

 

They shouldn't have any internet in Germany then because "nazi's" and "Hitler" is pretty common place on the internet, especially with trolling people.

 

 

I agree with Hitler not being allowed, but !@#$ is literally a German word for leader and I don't think that should be on the list of changes.  It's Sheepy's game though and seeing as how I don't use either of those references, I don't care enough if it goes one way or the other.

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And so what? To preserve the luxury of freedom of speech, and American values and a foreign country then blocking you for it - That would look bad for Germany not P&W

 

Not really, Germany bans stuff like this on an almost daily basis. No one cares. The US Constitution protects you from the government attempting to limit your speech, not private companies. Alex can ban you, tell you it's for speech and it's all legal.

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Ok you may not agree with the rules but that doesn't mean you should throw your opinions on us and claim that it's Alex's fault for not allowing that. If you don't like the rules, then leave the game and make your own.

 

Just because you have the free will to make your name Hitler of the Nazi 3rd Reich does not mean you have a right to do so.

 

Open your eyes and brace yourself, because the entire world runs on rules that you have to follow, even if you don't like them.

 

Don't get involved in a conversation you can't truly engage in. I'm just stating that for a nation simulation game it seems odd to limit what people can put due to its historical accuracy and its historical importance. You're just simply taking things too far.

 

 

Not really, Germany bans stuff like this on an almost daily basis. No one cares. The US Constitution protects you from the government attempting to limit your speech, not private companies. Alex can ban you, tell you it's for speech and it's all legal.

 
I never said he couldn't. I just said in my view that banning such things is wrong due to its important in history: It's almost like ignoring what happened. And for a nation simulation game to ban something like this just appeared odd to me, that's all 
Edited by Adalbert

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So let me get this straight: you're angry that you can't name your leader's title the same as the title associated with Hitler and Nazi Germany...because it will break immersion?

 

So does that mean you'll complain about how infra works since it creates people out of no where?

Or building cities creates one as soon as the system can process it?

Or how about gasoline and oil being measured in tons

 

I am just curious as to why it is only this particular aspect that ruins the game for you, and nothing else. 

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So let me get this straight: you're angry that you can't name your leader's title the same as the title associated with Hitler and Nazi Germany...because it will break immersion?

 

So does that mean you'll complain about how infra works since it creates people out of no where?

Or building cities creates one as soon as the system can process it?

Or how about gasoline and oil being measured in tons

 

I am just curious as to why it is only this particular aspect that ruins the game for you, and nothing else.

 

No because it's !@#$ing offensive, simple as that.

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Private entities have the right to censor speech or ideas on their platforms. There is literally nothing else to it. He is well within his rights to ban elements he deems undesirable. Such actions are lawful. Sheepy is not a government agent or entity.

 

End of story. There is nothing Immersive about wanting your desire to play Nazi Germany/similar factions because you, like everyone else making this argument in every WW2 game ever with very few exceptions don't actually want to play as them as they truly were if we're going by your immersion and historical accuracy argument. That is unless you want to argue as to the inclusion of Slave labor, Genocide/Ethnic Cleansing and Rape as well. After all, you are searching for historically accurate portrayals.

Edited by Jose Rodriguez III
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So let me get this straight: you're angry that you can't name your leader's title the same as the title associated with Hitler and Nazi Germany...because it will break immersion?

 

So does that mean you'll complain about how infra works since it creates people out of no where?

Or building cities creates one as soon as the system can process it?

Or how about gasoline and oil being measured in tons

 

I am just curious as to why it is only this particular aspect that ruins the game for you, and nothing else. 

 

Those are aspects of the game that come with the gameplay. Naming a leader, or nation has a lot to do with the immersion, this is why it is even an option. And the leader title is just as important.

 

 

And it's not banned because it's offensive, it's banned because it's controversial. If we banned everything offensive then dictators wouldn't even be allowed because it's offensive to people in third world countries. Just because it's offensive doesn't mean it should be outright banned or not allowed, and it's also the context in which it is used. "a ruthless, tyrannical leader.". That is the description of a [email protected]#$. This fits well alongside Totalitarian Dictatorships, so why then is it banned? It is simply because you take the text and apply it only to its historical value in Nazism, but it goes further than that. I mean it's like saying that the Swastika symbol should be banned just because Nazis used it, when in fact: it had been around for so much longer.

 

 

And at no point did I say that he didn't have the right to ban it: But I did say it was wrong to do so.

Edited by Adalbert

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I mean in all honesty, is a jew going to go kill themselves because they saw someone on the internet use !@#$ in their leaders title?

They might go, huh that guys a dick. But they're certainly not going to give nearly as much reaction as those who believe it to be offensive.

 

That's the amazing thing about being "offended". Is you are always offended for someone else because you think they may be offended rather than you actually being offended.

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ITT: OP fails to the see the point of why the game rejects certain ideas and elements, insisting that people get over it while being unable to get over the fact that the answer to his query is simply that the Admin does not wish these elements in his game.

Edited by Jose Rodriguez III
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It's simple, this all revolves around 2 philosophies.


 


1. Emotional


It is an offensive title that may hurt people's feelings


 


2. Logical


It is a factual title commonly associated with negative effects (but) helps add realism and immersion to a simulation game


 


And so far all counter-arguments (Besides legal ones - which were a legitimate argument) have been solely based on emotional philosophy.


Edited by Adalbert
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Dude, I'm all for freedom of speech but this isn't your game and it's up to the creator how he admins it. You say just because it's offensive it shouldn't be banned. Ummm if it's going to cause constant problems (problems that will be on repeat), then yes he has the right to ban it. He's the owner and the admin and how he deals with these things is up to him. If you don't like it, feel free to try another game. Or you know just do another name and immerse yourself in it.

Edited by Amaryllis

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Dude, I'm all for freedom of speech but this isn't your game and it's up to the creator how he admins it. You say just because it's offensive it shouldn't be banned. Ummm if it's going to cause constant problems (problems that will be on repeat), then yes he has the right to ban it. He's the owner and the admin and how he deals with these things is up to him. If you don't like it, feel free to try another game. Or you know just do another name and immerse yourself in it.

 

I'm sorry but it's the replies right here that I despise. You bring up that it's his right to ban it - And that was never argued. You don't bring up any constructive criticism behind the ban itself besides that he just has the right to do it. That was never being argued, the only thing argued here is WHY he banned it - And your suggestion to find another game shows that you are incapable of dealing with such controversy and would rather just send it away. You're literally asking someone to leave the community over the argument behind why a certain word was banned - Does that not seem the least bit counter-intuitive to you?

 

This is a question as to why it would be banned due to its help in immersion - Never argued his right or his ability to do it. So I don't know why people have said that so many times. And at no point did I ever say that it was enough to make me quit the game - so I don't know why people bring that up either. Do you simply skim through it and pick-and-choose which information to gather from the thread, then decide your response? Or have you actually spent the time to think about this critically and with some sort of effort towards thought?

 

EDIT:

No offense, but I don't understand why people keep bringing these points up - even though I never argued them - and it kinda triggers me

Edited by Adalbert

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