Lambdadelta Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) Reading comprehension. Or, in this case, reading what I quoted at all, most likely. Oh I comprehend it. I'm not sure you do, however. Marx says that the end-goal of Communism is a society in which the statement I mentioned can be the case. I propose that it is naive to assert that such a thing can ever be true, because it assumes that humans are not greedy and supremely altruistic - being able to put the benefit of the collective over the benefit of the individual in 100% of cases. Edited May 23, 2014 by Lambdadelta Quote There is no order and no meaning, there is only the truth of The Signal. The Signal ever transmits from here to the eyes and ears of the 'verse. Can't Stop The Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 What socialist would require you to buy insurance from a private company? These weird quasi-fascist laws where government reinforces corporate power have nothing to do with socialism, but with social democratic ideas that government is the answer to the excesses of capitalism. What they fail to understand is that capitalism itself is the problem. People like yourselves see that there is a problem, and you rightly identify that government involvement has mainly, while making many things better, achieved an ever-increasing totalitarianism. However, what you fail to realize is that the system of economic liberalism you espouse already existed and led us to our current situation. Any government will become increasingly susceptible to the will of the most powerful in society, and in capitalism the most powerful in society are the owners and the wealthy. Even if we had a revolution that implemented a tea party society, it would quickly degenerate into what we have now because there will always under capitalism be a class that is significantly more powerful than the others, and can therefore influence government to do what it wants. Because of this, you're never going to be able to legislate back to or maintain a state of libertarian capitalism, because libertarian capitalism is not in the interest of the capitalist class. Which is also why the social democrats can only ever fail or make things worse: it is impossible for us to legislate away corporate influence when the same people who make our laws are the ones who want the exact opposite of what we want in terms of corporate influence. How else can I explain why I am saying it is socialist? It is soc. because it requires the insurance company to accept everyone. Insurance companies redistribute wealth. I am not saying that the IC is socialist because it is, or would be/was, optional. How come capitalism worked all the way until Obama? Why should the government get involved? It worked all this way. Why now? If the majority disapproves of something the government does, why can the government go through with it? Going from Bloc II to WaW, the tables shifted. The power went from PEST to CHOAM. Complete power change. Just saying. Only 5% of the of the bottom 20% in 1975 were in the same class in 1991, and six times as many were in the top twenty percent in 1991. (Source) Mayors aren't influential enough to have an effect on corporations. Would you like to live in Detroit? Democratic mayors have ran that city for the longest time. It is bankrupt, poor, and really safe from all the gun bans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambdadelta Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 How come capitalism worked all the way until Obama? Why should the government get involved? It worked all this way. Why now? 1 Quote There is no order and no meaning, there is only the truth of The Signal. The Signal ever transmits from here to the eyes and ears of the 'verse. Can't Stop The Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Its the truth. When has capitalism failed America before 2008? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) In 1637, 1929, and 1987, just to name a few times. Edited May 23, 2014 by Grillick 4 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 In 1637, 1929, and 1987, just to name a few times. He said America, not the Netherlands. Check and Mate. Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodo Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Its the truth. When has capitalism failed America before 2008?This made me laugh pretty hard. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 He said America, not the Netherlands. Check and Mate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring We didn't regulate the banks enough. Maybe if you wouldn't raise minimum wage... Edited May 24, 2014 by WISD0MTREE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 We didn't regulate the banks enough. Maybe if you wouldn't raise minimum wage... Yeah, because Wal-Mart would die off without us subsidizing their labor costs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Yeah, because Wal-Mart would die off without us subsidizing their labor costs. I'm doubting that Wal-Mart is sending cashier jobs overseas. When you are buying gas, do you go for the cheaper or more expensive for the same type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I'm doubting that Wal-Mart is sending cashier jobs overseas. When you are buying gas, do you go for the cheaper or more expensive for the same type? They sent the other ones overseas, so now increasingly a large amount of our jobs are minimum wage service sector jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 They sent the other ones overseas, so now increasingly a large amount of our jobs are minimum wage service sector jobs. What other jobs? Wal-Mart is a GROCERY STORE!!! So I can just send what? Cashiers? Truckers? Managers? The only thing I can think of is the corporate guys, which has nothing to do with minimum wage... And it says something about our tax system. Relocating a couple thousand people and hiring a couple thousand more being cheaper than staying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Actually, WISD0MTREE, Wal-Mart is the single largest retailer in the world, with annual sales more than 300% higher than its nearest competitor. This market power makes its commodity chain exceedingly powerful. You have to be willfully blind to the truth if you genuinely think they don't have anything to do with the endemic outsourcing that has hit this country in the last five decades. 2 Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayayay Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 -snip- *sigh* I clearly bolded the 1627 part which is what I was joking about. 1 Quote Orbis Wars | CSI: UPN | B I G O O F | PW Expert Has Nerve To Tell You How To Run Your Own Goddamn Alliance | Occupy Wall Street | Sheepy Sings TheNG - My favorite part is when Steve suggests DEIC might have done something remotely successful, then gets massively shit on for proposing such a stupid idea. On 1/4/2016 at 6:37 PM, Sheepy said: This was !@#$ing gold. 10/10 possibly my favorite post on these forums yet. Sheepy said: I'm retarded, you win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 Actually, WISD0MTREE, Wal-Mart is the single largest retailer in the world, with annual sales more than 300% higher than its nearest competitor. This market power makes its commodity chain exceedingly powerful. You have to be willfully blind to the truth if you genuinely think they don't have anything to do with the endemic outsourcing that has hit this country in the last five decades. How much can they possible outsource? I mean, compare Wal Mart too other companies. They can outsource some, but not like other companies. Also, now products are cheaper for the "poor" you want to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Juan Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) The poor don't have to be poor. Progressive taxation, proper social security and a decent minimum wage would help. Then the slightly higher prices (from them not being exploited mercilessly as much) wouldn't affect them because they'd be richer! Edited May 25, 2014 by Don Juan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambdadelta Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) We didn't regulate the banks enough. You un-American socialist pig. Edited May 25, 2014 by Lambdadelta Quote There is no order and no meaning, there is only the truth of The Signal. The Signal ever transmits from here to the eyes and ears of the 'verse. Can't Stop The Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 25, 2014 Author Share Posted May 25, 2014 You un-American socialist pig. When have I ever said regulating banks is socialist? Just because I call one thing s. doesn't mean I call everything socialist. Go back to California saving the damn red spotted fish while you are walking biking in a debt wonderland. Or maybe you like a more South America feel in Venezuela rioting over the last box of toothpaste. Whatever floats your boat. The poor don't have to be poor. Progressive taxation, proper social security and a decent minimum wage would help. Then the slightly higher prices (from them not being exploited mercilessly as much) wouldn't affect them because they'd be richer! It would affect the companies. Then they build factories in China... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 The poor don't have to be poor. They do if capitalists are to make their obscene profits. It's the only place where you can always drive the cost lower, as has been done over the last several decades. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambdadelta Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 (edited) When have I ever said regulating banks is socialist? Many (ignorant people) in the US would call it so. If regulating private insurance companies in the public interest is socialist, then so is regulating banks in the same. Edited May 26, 2014 by Lambdadelta Quote There is no order and no meaning, there is only the truth of The Signal. The Signal ever transmits from here to the eyes and ears of the 'verse. Can't Stop The Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WISD0MTREE Posted May 26, 2014 Author Share Posted May 26, 2014 Many (ignorant people) in the US would call it so. If regulating forcing private insurance companies to commit suicide in the public interest socialists' interests is socialist, then so is regulating banks in the same. So you assumed? Just like I am assuming that your head got damaged in some rugby game in yuropa. Fixed that for you. And why are we even slinging these insults? Can't we have a REAL debate? I'm not saying that I haven't done it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Bell Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 So you assumed? Just like I am assuming that your head got damaged in some rugby game in yuropa. Fixed that for you. And why are we even slinging these insults? Can't we have a REAL debate? I'm not saying that I haven't done it Because all proper debates should start with a good "!@#$ you" followed by undermining the others intelligence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambdadelta Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 Fixed that for you. I have neither the time nor the will to attempt to argue logic with morons. Quote There is no order and no meaning, there is only the truth of The Signal. The Signal ever transmits from here to the eyes and ears of the 'verse. Can't Stop The Signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Bell Posted May 26, 2014 Share Posted May 26, 2014 I have neither the time nor the will to attempt to argue logic with morons. See what I mean? You can also throw in some "yo mamma" jokes for flavor, just don't over-do it. Now Im going to leave you all to your off topic flame trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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