Helping Homeless Illegal?

[WISD0MTREE]

http://rt.com/usa/159292-daytona-beach-feed-homeless/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

Should the government do this? 

 

I think no. They are freaking doing something to help the homeless. 

(Mods if you think that the title is offensive somehow, feel free to change)

[Obongo the Paultifex]

“The ordinance is there, so if we catch you, we're going to cite you,†Police Chief Mike Chitwood said. “If you want to feed people, and you want to do a good, Christian act, we encourage you to coordinate with the social service agencies.â€

 

I see nothing wrong with organizing these efforts to centralize the movement and make sure nothing malicious occurs. It's really the same to me as when there was an uproar when people were arrested in California for "just having a bible study" when they had been warned multiple times about the risks they were taking doing it (mostly fire-safety). It's hard for me to find sympathy for instances like this where people think that ignorance of the law means freedom from it.

 

Now I don't know all the info so I'm not going to demonize either side, but unless one had already been given, a warning from the police would've sufficed instead of a (small) fine.

[Hereno]

The last few years have seen a huge upsurge in legislation attempting to make being homeless illegal.

[Sailor Jerry]

The last few years have seen a huge upsurge in legislation attempting to make being homeless illegal.

No citations/links means it's not true....just sayin'

[Hereno]

No citations/links means it's not true....just sayin'

You could have just asked for some sources.

 

Or, you know, did a quick Google yourself. Although those people who are way too into American football have never been known for their intellectual capabilities...

 

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_20452293/effect-camping-bans-colorado-debated-denver-ordinance

 

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/04/21/3428899/fort-lauderdale-criminalize-homelessness/

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20110105/us-homeless-camps/

 

http://www.startribune.com/nation/120568019.html

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2011/0412/Orlando-can-restrict-feeding-the-homeless-rules-11th-Circuit

 

http://tbo.com/news/st-pete-homeless-now-given-ultimatums-by-police-243755

 

There's just a few from the last decade. Or do you want me to read them for you, too?

[Sailor Jerry]

You could have just asked for some sources.Or, you know, did a quick Google yourself. Although those people who are way too into American football have never been known for their intellectual capabilities.

Well, I think by my previous statement.....I pretty much did ask for some sources. As for me doing a quick google myself.....why would I do that when you are the one making the statement......I mean if you're going to make a statement like that, you should put your sources in the same post!

 

Now to your last statement......don't be all upset because you never had the "sack/stones" to play, or were always the last kid picked in team sports...even behind the chubby, 1-armed, half-blind kid who liked eating the lint out of his belly-button and liked to show off the birthmark on his right butt cheek that looked like Franklin D. Roosevelt! Once again....sources!

[Hereno]

Well, I think by my previous statement.....I pretty much did ask for some sources. As for me doing a quick google myself.....why would I do that when you are the one making the statement......I mean if you're going to make a statement like that, you should put your sources in the same post!

 

Now to your last statement......don't be all upset because you never had the "sack/stones" to play, or were always the last kid picked in team sports...even behind the chubby, 1-armed, half-blind kid who liked eating the lint out of his belly-button and liked to show off the birthmark on his right butt cheek that looked like Franklin D. Roosevelt! Once again....sources!

And I provided various articles illustrating my point, as this national phenomena has been both well documented and not confined to any single area. Perhaps I misinterpreted your original post as being snarky when it wasn't (feel free to weigh in), but I actually legitimately am surprised that this was something that people aren't aware about.

[Sailor Jerry]

And I provided various articles illustrating my point, as this national phenomena has been both well documented and not confined to any single area. Perhaps I misinterpreted your original post as being snarky when it wasn't (feel free to weigh in), but I actually legitimately am surprised that this was something that people aren't aware about.

I'll be honest, everywhere I've lived over the last 20-25 years, I've known about the homelessness issues/problems, but honestly I've heard nothing about any of these sorts ordinances that you've sourced. Not saying that its not happening, just that I've never heard about it personally. Not sure my position on the whole thing. Taking the whole religion thing out of the equation, a good and kind person would and should help their fellow man in need. I also see that the cities would like see their streets clean with no drunkards or panhandlers or mental cases roaming the aimlessly. Its a tough issue for sure. I know this might be a pipe dream, but if these cities who are putting forth these ordinances would build some housing units were the tenants would be able to stay in return for them doing some public service work. This way, they are off the street with decent place to sleep, and the city would get some basic labor like park cleaning, painting over graffiti, litter picked up, etc., etc. I have a whole text wall I could go on about but I'll spare everyone the rantings of what believe is the only sane minded person on this planet!

[Lambdadelta]

I know this might be a pipe dream, but if these cities who are putting forth these ordinances would build some housing units were the tenants would be able to stay in return for them doing some public service work. This way, they are off the street with decent place to sleep, and the city would get some basic labor like park cleaning, painting over graffiti, litter picked up, etc., etc.

How socialist of you.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Lambdadelta

[Sailor Jerry]

How socialist of you.

I know......kind of scary isn't it! Maybe I'm just getting softer in my old age. In my younger days I would have yelled out, "get a haircut and get a job you lousy bum! I work hard for my money and what I have and you're just sitting there all bum-like and expect people like me to found your chosen life style! I mean portions of my taxes are going to pay for these charities who feed and shelter the homeless why should I give anymore than that!"

 

But now....eh, take my taxes, build some housing that is centered around a soup kitchen and in return for staying in the apartment, the tenants work. Hell, as they doing this "day-labor" work, they could actually get some training/skills and possible get themselves a regular job and out of the apartment and into a place they can afford themselves. If they don't want to work....they don't get a place to sleep or free food.....easy as that. If someone wants to live that life-style....I'm fine wth that, but don't be a drain on society, either work for the betterment, or move away to the desert or some other isolated place!

[Lambdadelta]

but don't be a drain on society, either work for the betterment, or move away to the desert or some other isolated place!

The problem is that quite a lot of people (most of them are either greedy or poorly educated, often both) seem to paint all the unemployed/homeless with the same brush - that they're there because they're lazy, or because they're stupid or because they choose to be. This couldn't be further from the truth. Most of them are there because of one too many bad turns of fortune in their lives - abusive families, personal tragedies, health problems - things they can't control.

 

The myth that personal effort alone can create prosperity is a dangerous one indeed and should be thoroughly crushed out.

 

---

There's also an argument to be made that since capitalist economies rely on there being a certain level of natural unemployment, the State and its taxpayers owe a living to the percentage of able workers that will naturally be excluded from employment (since it is the unemployment of this cohort that allows the remainder of the working population to fully enjoy the prosperity granted them by the value of their labour).

 

The preference of employers to employ those already experienced in their field of work only exacerbates the problem of long-term employment that is endemic to capitalist economies - in which the pursuit of profit is the primary objective and the pursuit of employment only secondary.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Lambdadelta

[FS108]

WTF but why is it that if you help someone that is homeless in the states you get harassed? in my  city love Bonn if you do it its a civil act and you don't get in trouble but you lose money in doing so, but here is when i become biblical so non Christians beware.  Jesus said feed a man a fish he has food for one day but teach a man to fish he will have a life time of fish, does that mean anything to anyone? So instead of Feeding the homeless put shelters up for them and teach them skills for work and they will work and move on with there life's and leave the shelters and make it on there own.

[Hereno]

WTF but why is it that if you help someone that is homeless in the states you get harassed? in my  city love Bonn if you do it its a civil act and you don't get in trouble but you lose money in doing so, but here is when i become biblical so non Christians beware.  Jesus said feed a man a fish he has food for one day but teach a man to fish he will have a life time of fish, does that mean anything to anyone? So instead of Feeding the homeless put shelters up for them and teach them skills for work and they will work and move on with there life's and leave the shelters and make it on there own.

44% of homeless persons are employed. That said, you'd probably really like reading this: http://gawker.com/5980549/how-to-solve-homelessness-the-mundane-miracles-of-the-doe-fund

[FS108]

that's nice but people are people some say meth and other drugs are a cause and some say mentally ill is an other reason but who will help them recover and will there ever be a free drug abuse and mental health care thing in the states? 

[WISD0MTREE]

that's nice but people are people some say meth and other drugs are a cause and some say mentally ill is an other reason but who will help them recover and will there ever be a free drug abuse and mental health care thing in the states? 

If common sense is involved, it isn't happening under Obama. 

[FS108]

Typical Government non-sense, if only i can be the US President but can't due to being a National German citizen  

Edited May 18, 2014 by FS108

[Fox Fire]

Capitalism is a total !@#$ isn't it?

Its now literally illegal (and effectively being enforced) to even allow your children to sell lemonade on the corner.

 

You cannot sell, or even hand out food without a permit.

This isn't a ridiculous government. This is a corrupt government bending to its breaking capitalist system.

 

But capitalism can't fail, right? I mean, it soo purfekt. Forget the fact that economic.theorists completely disregard the human factor. That don't much matter.... Murica!!!!

*Waves confederate flag*

Am I doin it rite?

[FS108]

Capitalism is a total !@#$ isn't it?

Its now literally illegal (and effectively being enforced) to even allow your children to sell lemonade on the corner.

 

You cannot sell, or even hand out food without a permit.

This isn't a ridiculous government. This is a corrupt government bending to its breaking capitalist system.

 

But capitalism can't fail, right? I mean, it soo purfekt. Forget the fact that economic.theorists completely disregard the human factor. That don't much matter.... Murica!!!!

*Waves confederate flag*

Am I doin it rite?

Capitalism was right in its time but now its a time of revolution someone put in a Capitalist version of V for Vendetta  

[WISD0MTREE]

But capitalism can't fail, right? I mean, it soo purfekt. Forget the fact that economic.theorists completely disregard the human factor. That don't much matter.... Murica!!!!

*Waves confederate flag*

Am I doin it rite?

Funny that our economy was strong under Reagan and Russia's, Venezuela's, and Cuba's economies just happened to collapse. 

 

We could sell lemonade before Obama. We could buy unpasteurized milk before Obama. And funny how the RVC combo had something similar to Obamacare, which gave us debt. 

 

Oh, wait. Socialism is the best of both worlds. Because riots over a lack of toilet paper is definately peaceful. Let's just go kill this guy over the last 2-ply roll. 

[Fox Fire]

Let me explain this the way I just previously explained it to a friend:

 

When it comes to politics, something I've always been fascinated by, I think I can safely say that everyone is wrong. Simply because the goal of politics it to create a utopia. But a utopia is impossible so long as humans are part of the equation.

So you have 2 economic "poles." Socialism and Capitalism. Both work, but both also have major flaws that inevitably make them fail.

Politicians can't seem to accept this, even when they know its true.

The truth is, systems need constant change because cultures themselves are ever changing.

Though, given that fact, I still have a political stance, but I also believe that no particular system is right for everyone. Culture is a major factor in politics and its a factor that not many people include into their ideas.

Communism worked perfect on paper. But every example of true communism has always failed, because Marx thought of every factor, but never thought of the actual human/cultural factor.

[WISD0MTREE]

Let me explain this the way I just previously explained it to a friend:

-snip-

The difference between socialism and capitalism is you can still live lazy as !@#$ in socialism and you are safe. Under cap., you can be lazy but you don't get anywhere in life. I can work my ass off like Donald Trump and get there. 

 

Yes I am implying that Obamaistan America is socialist. 

[FS108]

Communism worked perfect on paper. But every example of true communism has always failed, because Marx thought of every factor, but never thought of the actual human/cultural factor.

 

True and if it worked today as the same way much will not be homeless in a Communistic setting which I approve of people will have a home and food supplied from the people and the government and same with the work place but i can see Labor in one skill turning a Job into the Job that they are skilled in much like today with Capitalism but with the government providing everything so no man woman or child shall be hungry or out of work 

[Fox Fire]

Funny that our economy was strong under Reagan and Russia's, Venezuela's, and Cuba's economies just happened to collapse. 

 

We could sell lemonade before Obama. We could buy unpasteurized milk before Obama. And funny how the RVC combo had something similar to Obamacare, which gave us debt. 

 

Oh, wait. Socialism is the best of both worlds. Because riots over a lack of toilet paper is definately peaceful. Let's just go kill this guy over the last 2-ply roll.

 

Even funnier, USSR economy collapsed attempting to out-do us, which the actually did for a great period of time.

Know why we created the M-16? Notice the AK, to this very day is the most recognized, familiar, and aquirable firearm on earth. Its also widely considered the most reliable assault rifle design ever made. Been around since 47 and still going strong.

 

Also, the quality of.life in USSR was vastly higher than under Russias current failed capitalism.

In fact, modern Russia completely lacks a middle class and is entirely run by the Mafia.

Bit considering the Russia vs USSR debate is one Im extremely educated on and very familiar with, I totally encourage you to attempt an argument. Id be surprised to actually lose this one for a change.

 

As for socialism vs capitalism, refer to previous comment and don't make stupid assumptions.

[Fox Fire]

The difference between socialism and capitalism is you can still live lazy as !@#$ in socialism and you are safe. Under cap., you can be lazy but you don't get anywhere in life. I can work my !@#$ off like Donald Trump and get there. 

 

Yes I am implying that Obamaistan America is socialist.

 

You're an absolute tool. Granted, I do firmly believe Obama is a Marxist, nothing he has done is anywhere near socialism. Not even remotely close.

But please, attempt to prove me wrong.

[FS108]

AK47s are so reliable from mud and dirt and other thing compare to american made rifles of the cold war and if you take that into consideration no wonder the North won in Vetiam or as american propaganda is we left more like flea cause all our weapons sucked. Infact if you even look at the new Russian fighters and tanks are a hell of a lot better then american F-22's and M1A2's all during the Communist evolution during the Cold War and it ended for Russia due to not economic collapse as some Americans are to believe but to secret talks with President Kuschev and Reagon.