The Economist: Communists worse than Hitler

[Ogaden]

Not to be outdone:

http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21676748-detailed-study-where-jews-were-most-danger-during-second-world?fsrc=scn/tw/te/pe/ed/ReexaminingtheHolocaust

 

 

Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning. By Timothy Snyder.Tim Duggan Books; 462 pages; $30. Bodley Head; £25.

“A HISTORY of the Holocaust must be contemporary,†writes Timothy Snyder in the prologue to “Black Earthâ€, an impressive reassessment of the Holocaust, which steers an assured course between two historical traps. It is a mistake to see the Nazi genocide as an event too unique to be rooted in the past or to have relevance to the present. Yet it is also wrong to flatten the singularity of the deliberate mass murder of Europe’s Jews into a general warning against racism or xenophobia.

Mr Snyder, a professor of history at Yale University who specialises in central and eastern Europe, begins by showing the Darwinian, deterministic thinking behind Adolf Hitler’s ideal world. Superior races (Germans, British and Americans) were in a ruthless contest with lesser races for territory and natural resources. Even to consider a world in which human beings could live harmoniously side by side was in the words of “Mein Kampfâ€, “un-natureâ€.

In Hitler’s universe the Jews were an alien “counter-raceâ€, whose unnatural beliefs included dangerous and subversive politics. For the good of the planet, therefore, Jews must be removed from the face of the Earth, though it would have been little comfort to the murdered millions to know that they were being shot and gassed for ecological, rather than racial reasons. Another of Mr Snyder’s insights is that the Holocaust intensified as military success became more distant: having failed to vanquish the Soviet Union, the Nazis took extermination as a consolation prize.

One of the most controversial arguments in Mr Snyder’s book is the contention that absence of state structures, and the lack of legal status that ensued, aided the executioners. Jews were most vulnerable in places where citizenship, identity, protection, the right to property and ultimately life were no longer guaranteed by any kind of legal and bureaucratic structure. In France and Italy, where national governments continued more-or-less to function under occupation, three-quarters of the Jews survived. In eastern territories, which suffered “double occupationâ€, first by the Soviets under the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and then by the Nazis, at least 90% of them perished.

“Black Earth†will prove uncomfortable reading for many who hew to cherished but mythical elements of Holocaust history. It highlights how Stalinist policies paved the way for Nazi extermination. After the war, the Soviets often portrayed Jews as “victims of fascismâ€, glossing over how communist cadres had often been the first collaborators, proving their loyalties to their new masters by murdering Jews. Mr Snyder also argues convincingly against the left-wing view that the Holocaust stemmed from imperialism, or the failures of bourgeois capitalism.

The weakest parts of Mr Snyder’s book are the environmental and political prescriptions. Global warming does not have much to do with Hitler’s dementedly brutal ecological thinking. Comparisons between Nazi propaganda and the current vogue for conspiracy theories in Muslim countries, that hold Israel responsible for most of the wrongs in the Middle East, are not conclusive. Paranoia and myth-making long predate Hitler.

Thinking about the Holocaust should not be easy. Mr Snyder’s flawed but powerful book challenges readers to reassess what they think they know and believe: a worthy memorial to the victims.

 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Ogaden

[Ogaden]

Apparently this year is the year where the Neocons try and rehabilitate Adolph Hitler's reputation for some reason.  What the hell are they up to?

[Ogaden]

I mean seriously what the !@#$, what's next?  "Holocaust actually caused by FDR" is the next logical jump

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Wait hold up, are you saying the National Socialist version of the German economy was bad?

 

Now, this may sound biased, but Germany actually was able to raise up from the Great Depression.

 

The National Socialist did many programs to help improve their economy and GDP.

 

For instance; The Autobahn. An program to construct highway systems (which U.S.A later adopted after WW2) around the country, it resulted in lowering the unemployement rate and actually building back up the German economy.

 

http://alphahistory.com/nazigermany/nazi-economic-recovery/

[Fox Fire]

TBF, Stalin killed over half a million people in the great purge. But those numbers don't come close to those killed in the holocaust.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

TBF, Stalin killed over half a million people in the great purge. But those numbers don't come close to those killed in the holocaust.

The thing is Stalin wasn't really a "Communist". As the concept of Communism heavily difers from that of the Soviet Model.

[Adama]

 

I mean seriously what the !@#$, what's next?  "Holocaust actually caused by FDR" is the next logical jump

 

Pretty sure the next logical step is this:

 

Edited November 4, 2015 by Adama

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Pretty sure the next logical step is this:

 

Lol, the Great Leap Foward done by Mao ended in such a failure.

[Ogaden]

I guess those rays are so people feel the Bern

[Fox Fire]

The thing is Stalin wasn't really a "Communist". As the concept of Communism heavily difers from that of the Soviet Model.

Actually, Stalin was probably the least communist of all Soviet leaders. In fact, he permanently ruined the entire political ideology that the USSR was built on. His very non-communist policies carried on throughout the rest of the life of the USSR.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Actually, Stalin was probably the least communist of all Soviet leaders. In fact, he permanently ruined the entire political ideology that the USSR was built on. His very non-communist policies carried on throughout the rest of the life of the USSR.

I wouldn't label him as a Communist, but more of a "Socialist". Ironically, he committed the USSR to "State Capitalism", which I'm sure you are informed about.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Stalin like Pol Pot, Mao and other communist leaders, was a militant atheist who had a policy of systematically attacking people of faith.

 

Not to mention those three combined killed hundreds of millions of people.

 

Just wanted to get that in there.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Stalin like Pol Pot, Mao and other communist leaders, was a militant atheist who had a policy of systematically attacking people of faith.

 

Not to mention those three combined killed hundreds of millions of people.

 

Just wanted to get that in there.

Well, yes. Because religion usually opposes what the Socialist or self-proclaimed Communist state wants to happen.

They only allow religion, if it suits their propaganda purposes.

[Vassili Dovgan]

Wait hold up, are you saying the National Socialist version of the German economy was bad?

 

Now, this may sound biased, but Germany actually was able to raise up from the Great Depression.

 

The National Socialist did many programs to help improve their economy and GDP.

 

For instance; The Autobahn. An program to construct highway systems (which U.S.A later adopted after WW2) around the country, it resulted in lowering the unemployement rate and actually building back up the German economy.

 

The Autobahn was actually a concept developed in the Weimar Republic. The Fascists in Germany actually stole the very most of their concepts from other political groups.

 

Also the NSDAP's government programmes didn't last long, since they only provided short, low-paid labour. Most of those programmes were financed by taking debt in foreign countries.

 

National Socialism is about as socialist as Somalia.

 

 

Regarding Stalin: Ofcourse he was not a boyscout. He is more or less responsible for the death of many people and not everyone of them deserved it. But, unlike Hitler, he also did good things: Don't forget about his 5-year-plans, which turned Russia into a modern, industrialized nation.

[Fox Fire]

The Autobahn was actually a concept developed in the Weimar Republic. The Fascists in Germany actually stole the very most of their concepts from other political groups.

 

Also the NSDAP's government programmes didn't last long, since they only provided short, low-paid labour. Most of those programmes were financed by taking debt in foreign countries.

 

National Socialism is about as socialist as Somalia.

 

 

Regarding Stalin: Ofcourse he was not a boyscout. He is more or less responsible for the death of many people and not everyone of them deserved it. But, unlike Hitler, he also did good things: Don't forget about his 5-year-plans, which turned Russia into a modern, industrialized nation.

TBF, Hitler did good things as well. If all you look at is the war and the holocaust, obviously, you won't see it.

[Franz Von Dietrich]

The Autobahn was actually a concept developed in the Weimar Republic. The Fascists in Germany actually stole the very most of their concepts from other political groups.

 

Also the NSDAP's government programmes didn't last long, since they only provided short, low-paid labour. Most of those programmes were financed by taking debt in foreign countries.

 

National Socialism is about as socialist as Somalia.

 

 

Regarding Stalin: Ofcourse he was not a boyscout. He is more or less responsible for the death of many people and not everyone of them deserved it. But, unlike Hitler, he also did good things: Don't forget about his 5-year-plans, which turned Russia into a modern, industrialized nation.

Maybe you didn't read my post, or maybe you're blind, either way; I didn't make a statement about National Socialism being about Socialism. Futhermore, the 

National Socialist, are not and will never be "Fascists".

(Even though, Socialism doesn't have a single defintion.)

 

But, that isn't the main point. You can try and and discredit what the National Socialist did, but what they did is what they did. Their economics were proven successful, it wasn't a State Capitalist nor a total war economy, unlike the USSR in its early years.

Edited November 4, 2015 by Francisco Franco Bah

[TellUrGrlThx]

TBF, Hitler did good things FOR GERMANY as well. If all you look at is the war and the holocaust, obviously, you won't see it.

 

FTFY

[Kyoko]

Stalin like Pol Pot, Mao and other communist leaders, was a militant atheist who had a policy of systematically attacking people of faith.

 

Not to mention those three combined killed hundreds of millions of people.

 

Just wanted to get that in there.

This is all factually very correct. I see nothing wrong with this post. Good job Ibrahim.

[Flint]

Oh, this.

[Rozalia]

Apparently this year is the year where the Neocons try and rehabilitate Adolph Hitler's reputation for some reason.  What the hell are they up to?

 

Well I'd think such a view would be inevitable. Those seen as monsters today are seen in a better light in the future. Napoleon for example is seen in a very good light these days for example even though he attempted to dominate Europe similar to how Hitler did. 

 

Pretty sure the next logical step is this:

 

 

Britain has you beat.

 

[Big Brother]

Stalin like Pol Pot, Mao and other communist leaders, was a militant atheist who had a policy of systematically attacking people of faith.

 

You state that as if it's a bad thing

 

Well I'd think such a view would be inevitable. Those seen as monsters today are seen in a better light in the future. Napoleon for example is seen in a very good light these days for example even though he attempted to dominate Europe similar to how Hitler did. 

 

There's a difference between conquest and conquest including the most ruthless genocide the world has ever seen though. Napoleon did some awful things (and is still a pretty controversial historical figure) but it all pales in comparison to the events set in motion by Hitler. I agree that time is a sort of repairer of reputations, but some acts will never be absolved.

[Fox Fire]

FTFY

Banned vivisection.

Modern animal conservation.

Modern rocketry.

Numerous medical breakthroughs (albeit often through torture).

[Vassili Dovgan]

 the National Socialist, are not and will never be "Fascists".

 

Haha.

 

Hahahahaha...

 

HahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Good one :,)

[Franz Von Dietrich]

Haha.

 

Hahahahaha...

 

HahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Good one :,)

By your logic, all Soviets including Stalin, are Communist, correct? True murderous Communist? Wow, you're really making Socialism and Communism sound bad. Again, there's a clear difference between Fascism and National Socialism. (Mussolini even had Jewish-religious people in the Fascist Party of Italy, before Hitler started pressuring him).

 

You really need to do more research, besides being an ignorant person.

[Big Brother]

There are both similarities and differences between Fascism and National Socialism, and a lot of people interchange the two terms freely. In the end, they're both extreme far-right ideologies that need to be smashed.