Peter Quill Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Do you believe the Old Testament is the word of God? No. Quote <&Partisan> EAT THE SHIT <blacklabel> lol @ ever caring about how much you matter in some dumbass nation simulation browser game. what a !@#$in pathetic waste of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Do you believe the Old Testament is the word of God? Do you? Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) No. What Jesus said in the New Testament about the Old Testament (according to your bible): "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Mathew 5:17) "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Mather 5:18) "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Mathew 5:19) "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly NOT enter the kingdom of heaven." (Mathew 5:20) Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Quill Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What Jesus said in the New Testament about the Old Testament (according to your bible): "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Mathew 5:17) Hmm. Did he stone prostitutes? No. Did he kill infidels? No. So yeah, the old testament is NOT the word of God. 2 Quote <&Partisan> EAT THE SHIT <blacklabel> lol @ ever caring about how much you matter in some dumbass nation simulation browser game. what a !@#$in pathetic waste of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tali Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Of fukcings yuo. That is of my line. >mfw my shitpost steals your(or is it you're?) lines Edited November 9, 2015 by Olivier Mira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Hmm. Did he stone prostitutes? No. Did he kill infidels? No. So yeah, the old testament is NOT the word of God. Well... according to your bible, Jesus says: "... you will certainly NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven". (Mathew 5:20) Belief in Jesus is not enough to save you from hell fire. Glad tidings to you. Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Sanders The 2nd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Second, I've already asked you about your beliefs and you refuse to answer because we all know what they are. Support for a bunch of murdering, rapist scum bags. ISIS have never raped or murdered anybody. they are at war and people get killed. you just think isis are rapists and murders due to your bourgeoisie mentality. those videos you see? faked. america agents did all that dressed up as isis fighters. but keep supporting your capitalism as it will fail you in end. regimes like isis are what happens when capitalism goes too far and bombs iraq, creating extremists, hence forth capitalism needs to be abolished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 What Jesus said in the New Testament about the Old Testament (according to your bible): "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Mathew 5:17) Hmm. Did he stone prostitutes? No. Did he kill infidels? No. So yeah, the old testament is NOT the word of God. It is the word of God. Jesus himself said so. What people should understand is that these are considered by Christians as two separate covenants with God. Although it is highly debated. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_the_Old_Covenant Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Quill Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Well... according to your bible, Jesus says "you will certainly NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven". Belief in Jesus is not enough to save you from hell fire. Glad tidings to you. Hmm. Are you God? Do you know what is wrong or what is right? Is there considerable proof that the Bible or the Koran wasn't edited at all? Or that God spoke to Muhammad? Didn't think so. 1 Quote <&Partisan> EAT THE SHIT <blacklabel> lol @ ever caring about how much you matter in some dumbass nation simulation browser game. what a !@#$in pathetic waste of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Sanders The 2nd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 communism and socialism is true form of Christianity in modern age as Christianities true socialist meaning has been corrupted by the republican party and american capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) What Jesus said in the New Testament about the Old Testament (according to your bible): "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Mathew 5:17) "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (Mather 5:18) "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Mathew 5:19) "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly NOT enter the kingdom of heaven." (Mathew 5:20) So do you equally believe that this covenant applies to you? Edited November 9, 2015 by Fox Fire 2 Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Quill Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Also, while I think some Old Covenant rules still apply, some are either obsolete and/or have been made irrelevant by the New Covenant. Quote <&Partisan> EAT THE SHIT <blacklabel> lol @ ever caring about how much you matter in some dumbass nation simulation browser game. what a !@#$in pathetic waste of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Sanders The 2nd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Also, while I think some Old Covenant rules still apply, some are either obsolete and/or have been made irrelevant by the New Covenant. all bible is true it is word of god and you not Christian if you dont follow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian." (Quran 15:9) Hmm. Are you God? Do you know what is wrong or what is right? Is there considerable proof that the Bible or the Koran wasn't edited at all? Or that God spoke to Muhammad? Didn't think so. I believe there is some truth in the bible but that it has been corrupted by man and that's why their are hundreds of versions of the bible in existence today. However, you can go to every single Muslim majority country, enter every single mosque, and you will only find one version of The Quran. That's because it has been meticulously preserved by Muslims who memorised it by heart form cover to cover throughout the ages. Today there are millions of Muslims around the world who memorised it in it's entirety, and every Muslim has at least memorised 3 chapters. Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Quill Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 all bible is true it is word of god and you not Christian if you dont follow it. 1 Quote <&Partisan> EAT THE SHIT <blacklabel> lol @ ever caring about how much you matter in some dumbass nation simulation browser game. what a !@#$in pathetic waste of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) So do you equally believe that this covenant applies to you? The laws in the Old Testament, as far as I know, don't contradict with the Sharia so yes. (If there's contradiction then I side with the Sharia.) I believe the Quran is a good filter for what is true in the bible and what has been added on. Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Sanders The 2nd Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 america supports isreal and its genocide of Palestinians. i am Christian not muslim but it is disgusting and the fake christians in america support it. isreal is like nazis modern day. mass murder and genocide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) "Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian." (Quran 15:9) I believe there is some truth in the bible but that it has been corrupted by man and that's why their are hundreds of versions of the bible in existence today. However, you can go to every single Muslim majority country, enter every single mosque, and you will only find one version of The Quran. That's because it has been meticulously preserved by Muslims who memorised it by heart form cover to cover throughout the ages. Today there are millions of Muslims around the world who memorised it in it's entirety, and every Muslim has at least memorised 3 chapters. The edits to the bible are often exaggerated. But as for the Quran, it's been scientifically shown that people have a difficult time remember exact spoken words. Memories are also extremely subject to influence and change. Memories are much like a JPEG image. Every time the memory is recalled, neural connection in the brain change, altering the memory itself. Remembering written words or printed images, especially with repeated viewing/study, is far more reliable. But if I were to verbally speak a paragraph to you, it's most likely that you would not be able to repeat it word for word. Thus, considering the formation nature of the Quran, it's probably equally unreliable. Edited November 9, 2015 by Fox Fire Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) The edits to the bible are often exaggerated. But as for the Quran, it's been scientifically shown that people have a difficult time remember exact spoken words. Memories are also extremely subject to influence and change. Memories are much like a JPEG image. Every time the memory is recalled, neural connection in the brain change, altering the memory itself. Remembering written words or printed images, especially with repeated viewing/study, is far more reliable. But if I were to verbally speak a paragraph to you, it's most likely that you would not be able to repeat it word for word. Thus, considering the formation nature of the Quran, it's probably equally unreliable. Oral preservation: 1. Muslims pray 5 times a day by reciting 3 different chapters of the Quran by heart in each prayer. (They can repeat the chapters they recited in their previous prayer, but if they choose not to they can recite 15 different chapters of the Quran in 1 day.) 2. If a Muslim who is leading the prayer makes a mistake when reciting, someone corrects him in the middle of the prayer. 3. They recite or listen to the entire Quran being recited during the month of Ramadan. (So at least once a year.) The Quran was also written down during the life time of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the bible was written down 500 years after all the companions of Jesus (AS) were dead and buried. The fact that there is also only one version of the Quran, in existence, testifies to it's preservation. Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Not sure why you think that makes you so superior. First of all Islam for all your denials and talk of apostates has plenty of different sects who see things differently, so were you correct they would not exist. No, simply saying they aren't Muslim doesn't dismiss that fact. Secondly I'm not sure why there being only one version because anyone who made a different one would be killed is a good thing (lets not pretend Islam maintained that through being somehow better now), and not all "heresies" are naturally less the word of the faith either. Many Christian heresies were done at the time where the world suffered but yet the church who professed the word of Jesus was extremely rich, which of course was greatly hypocritical and corrupt. These "heresies" you could say were "more Christian" than the main Christian religion (Catholicism). Of course all those "heresies" were constantly killed until at last the church could no longer exert enough power to kill them off, and thus we see the broken power of the Catholic church that exists today. Islam likewise will see many changes when the fanatical ravings of men like you stop having much effect. When no one is afraid of you anymore and your (speaking of people like you) power is broken, get ready for change. Edited November 9, 2015 by Rozalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Oral preservation: 1. Muslims pray 5 times a day by reciting 3 different chapters of the Quran by heart in each prayer. (They can repeat the chapters they recited in their previous prayer, but if they choose not to they can recite 15 different chapters of the Quran in 1 day.) 2. If a Muslim who is leading the prayer makes a mistake when reciting, someone corrects him in the middle of the prayer. 3. They recite or listen to the entire Quran being recited during the month of Ramadan. (So at least once a year.) The Quran was also written down during the life time of Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the bible was written down 500 years after all the companions of Jesus (AS) were dead and buried. The fact that there is also only one version of the Quran, in existence, testifies to it's preservation. Technically, there are as many version of the Quran as there are languages it's been translated into. Entire meanings can easily be lost in translation. The interesting thing about language is that it was originally designed to be far more vague than it is now. When someone speaks to you, what they are doing is making a bunch of strange sounds with their mouth. What the brain picks up on from these sounds is not the exact sounds themselves, but the overall meaning of these sounds. The invention of writing changed this and language has evolved to be extremely precise. For example, if I read the Quran in English, much of the meaning is lost. Because English words are very exact and precise in meaning, whereas Arabic words are more broad in meaning. Ancient languages in general tend to be more broad in the meanings of their words and symbols. But overall, I won't disagree that Muslims can often recite much of the Quran by heart. But the reason it's even possible is because it's written down. If it weren't, it would constantly change. This is the entire purpose of the invention or writing. Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Lol, no. Communism IS indeed incompatible with Shari'ah law. Communism deep down is believing in a society owned by the community, with no social classes(including the ruling class), while Islam has a social latter. There is the religious leaders, then the preachers, and then the followers. That is a classic example of a class society. Marxist ideology is a process, according to Leninism, where the proletariat becomes the ruling class first, and then subsequently eliminating all other social classes so that there is only one social class remaining: the working class. You are looking at an end goal that even Marx admits will take a very long time and several revolutions to mature. In the interim, there is a class-based society in which the proletariat remains a dictatorship. Nobody ever got past Leninism, and I don't imagine anyone will now. So the only communism that is even remotely realistic is Leninism, which should not be confused with Soviet communism. That being said, if we purely look at the ideal structure of the inherent Islamic intellectualism from itjihad, you would find a very similar political structure. And yes, I would argue that the Calph political system under the Abbasid is very similar to the structure of Soviet Communism. Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caecus Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Marxist ideology is a process, according to Leninism, where the proletariat becomes the ruling class first, and then subsequently eliminating all other social classes so that there is only one social class remaining: the working class. You are looking at an end goal that even Marx admits will take a very long time and several revolutions to mature. In the interim, there is a class-based society in which the proletariat remains a dictatorship. Nobody ever got past Leninism, and I don't imagine anyone will now. So the only communism that is even remotely realistic is Leninism, which should not be confused with Soviet communism. That being said, if we purely look at the ideal structure of the inherent Islamic intellectualism from itjihad, you would find a very similar political structure. And yes, I would argue that the Calph political system under the Abbasid is very similar to the structure of Soviet Communism. Wait, wtf? Aren't we getting a bit off track here? This is a forum post about shaming the Israel's prime minister for being stupid. That being said, Netenyahu is stupid. Quote It's a useful mental exercise. Through the years, many thinkers have been fascinated by it. But I don't enjoy playing. It was a game that was born during a brutal age when life counted for little. Everyone believed that some people were worth more than others. Kings. Pawns. I don't think that anyone is worth more than anyone else. Chess is just a game. Real people are not pieces. You can't assign more value to some of them and not others. Not to me. Not to anyone. People are not a thing that you can sacrifice. The lesson is, if anyone who looks on to the world as if it was a game of chess, deserves to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Not sure why you think that makes you so superior. First of all Islam for all your denials and talk of apostates has plenty of different sects who see things differently, so were you correct they would not exist. How do you reason? The fact that there are different sects does not negate the fact that the Quran has been preserved. It was also something that Muslims were informed would happen by the Prophet (saw). “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this Ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).†(Narrated by Abu Dawood (4597) and others) He (saw) also described the saved group as: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow†and “the vast multitudeâ€. Technically, there are as many version of the Quran as there are languages it's been translated into. Entire meanings can easily be lost in translation. We're talking about the preservation of the original text and not about translations; there is only one version of the Quran. And unlike like Christian pastors who read the bible in English, or whatever language it's translated into, as opposed to it's original Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic. Muslim recite the Quran exclusively in the original Quranic Arabic in which it was first revealed. But overall, I won't disagree that Muslims can often recite much of the Quran by heart. But the reason it's even possible is because it's written down. If it weren't, it would constantly change. This is the entire purpose of the invention or writing. I wouldn't completely dismiss the oral preservation of the Quran, but at least we seem to agree that It was preserved. Edited November 9, 2015 by Ibrahim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Fire Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 To add to my previous comment, I agree that the Quran has remained basically exact since the time it was written down. My point was more a couple side points to this topic, and that is: 1. If the Quran was originally taught to Muhammad's followers orally, then it's highly likely that what they wrote down were not the exact words he spoke. 2. Trying to extract exact and precise meanings out of such ancient text is rather silly to me, especially in translation. An example would be my Tao Te Ching compared to your Quran. I've read countless translations of the Tao and the vast majority of them sound like the incoherent ramblings of an idiot. Extremely hard to understand the points being made. This is because the Tao was originally written in an ancient language, where words and their meanings are far more vague, leading to countless different interpretations of what's being said. This is why I prefer the Ralph Alan Dale translation of the Tao, because Ralph did not translate the text with "exact" words in mind, but rather, the "concept" or "overall message" of the words in mind. He did a brilliant job of maintaining it's original poetic style in a way that makes sense to speakers of western language. I understand Islam is far different, but in my religion, I don't obsess over preserving the exact and precise words, but simply the meanings and concepts those words are trying to relay. How do you reason? The fact that there are different sects does not negate the fact that the Quran has been preserved. It was also something that Muslims were informed would happen by the Prophet (saw) himself who said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this Ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).†(Narrated by Abu Dawood (4597) and others) He (saw) also described the saved group as “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.†and “the vast multitudeâ€. We're talking about the preservation of the original text and not about translations; there is only one version of the Quran. And unlike like Christian pastors who read the bible in English, or whatever language it's translated into, as opposed to it's original Biblical Hebrew and Biblical Aramaic. Muslim recite the Quran exclusively in the original Quranic Arabic in which it was first revealed. I wouldn't completely dismiss the oral preservation of the Quran, but at least we seem to agree that It was preserved, See previous comment^ Quote _________________________________________________________________ <Jroc> I heard \ is an anagram of cocaine<\> I can't be rearranged into a line, I already am a line. --Foxburo Wiki-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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