Let's make attacks by planes on ships more realistic

[morts1]

Who ever heard of ships being attacked by planes without some planes being knocked out of the sky? Ships have surface to air missiles plus anti-aircraft guns. A big enough fleet would also have an aircraft carrier or two. Add that into the reckoning and you will have a whole new dynamic. 

[LordRahl2]

 

Who ever heard of ships being attacked by planes without some planes being knocked out of the sky?

 

Historians.

 

The IJN for example had almost zero effect with its naval anti aircraft throughout WWII.  Generally and tactically speaking if an opponent has air supremacy your ships are !@#$ed.

 

I always saw naval aviation as abstractly wrapped into the current count of aircraft.

[morts1]

We are not playing the game in WW2 time. I was thinking more along the lines of the U.K.'s war against Argentina over the Falkland islands where the shoe was on the other foot.

[LordRahl2]

We arn't?

 

Not sure about the foot shoe thing:

You are talking about the conflict where Argentine aircraft were able to successfully attack the British navy?  The one where all but 1, iirc, Argentine aircraft were shot down by other planes?

[Karrde]

We are not playing the game in WW2 time. I was thinking more along the lines of the U.K.'s war against Argentina over the Falkland islands where the shoe was on the other foot.

Damn right. Just wait till they try again and one of our new type 45 destroyers opens up on them.

 

Regarding the proposal though, I like the current system.

[LordRahl2]

Damn right. Just wait till they try again and one of our new type 45 destroyers opens up on them.

 

Regarding the proposal though, I like the current system.

 

Damn Brits - almost getting whooped by Argentina.  First Isandlwana then the Falklands - always having troubles with those pesky people over there.  Some other group of rabble beat you as well iirc.

 

And yeah the proposal is a poor one - I just wanted to talk history and military stuff for a bit.

[morts1]

  The one where all but 1, iirc, Argentine aircraft were shot down by other planes?

And only one ship was sunk. Don't forget I did mention aircraft carriers which just happen to have planes on them.

[LordRahl2]

Which are already represented by the plane on plane fight as I said.

That is how JAOCs handle those sorts of things generally anyway.  There is sorta a distinction between naval aviation and the air-force but that is far more technical.  The representation of them as combined air makes a lot of sense in a game like this.

 

From an air to naval perspective if my opponent lacked a CAP I would just sit outside his max effective range and rain ASMs on him.  This is actually perfectly representative of the real world in game (the expenditure of time and munitions/gas also makes sense in this strategy).

 

And your history is wrong.  5-7sh iirc British ships were sunk.

[morts1]

Most wars are between neighbouring countries so why is it assumed that the enemies planes can reach your ships but yours can't?

[LordRahl2]

Most wars are between neighbouring countries so why is it assumed that the enemies planes can reach your ships but yours can't?

Say what now?

[morts1]

I always saw naval aviation as abstractly wrapped into the current count of aircraft.

So planes should be lost by both sides

[morts1]

Say what now?

The game assumes all your planes are involved in attacks on ships not just naval planes

[LordRahl2]

So planes should be lost by both sides

Yup. Good news - planes are lost on both sides.

The game assumes all your planes are involved in attacks on ships not just naval planes

Sure. Land and naval aviation can both prosecute naval targets.

[LordRahl2]

I could see a number like when tanks attack an undefended city.

[morts1]

Yup. Good news - planes are lost on both sides.

 

I check out a lot of battles and have never seen in planes lost on either side in a naval battle

 

I do agree that planes should be lost when going up against a fleet. But a small amount. No more than 100, ever.

 

I could see a number like when tanks attack an undefended city.

Ah, we are getting somewhere. I think we need to recognise that we all have a bit of self interest here. LordRahl only has 7 ships, Karrde who suggests a good reason for my suggestion but wishes to retain the current system has none. Their alliance only has 51. I have 240 (and my alliance has 1808) so although 100 is a very reasonable figure for most I would expect a few more than that for myself and others in the alliance that have even more.

[LordRahl2]

I check out a lot of battles and have never seen in planes lost on either side in a naval battle

 

 

 

Ah, we are getting somewhere. I think we need to recognise that we all have a bit of self interest here. LordRahl only has 7 ships, Karrde who suggests a good reason for my suggestion but wishes to retain the current system has none. Their alliance only has 51. I have 240 (and my alliance has 1808) so although 100 is a very reasonable figure for most I would expect a few more than that for myself and others in the alliance that have even more.

 

You should probably stop building ships in your alliance.  Just a thought.

 

My self interest is to keep the admin from breaking the game.

[morts1]

I stand corrected. Sorry for wasting your time.

[LordRahl2]

no worries from me.  I enjoyed the chat

[morts1]

The sorry was just for air attack on ships. We were talking about planes being involved in navy against navy battles. I am still of the opinion that would add realism to navy battles. Of course there would have to be a minimum number of ships before you would be considered as having an aircraft carrier - say 25-50.

[Dr Rush]

P&W > Reality.

 

You can all go home now.

[greatkitteh]

 

 

 We don't have WWII IJN ships anymore. We have S-300s and PATRIOTs.

[ArcKnox]

We also have Growlers and VLO aircraft that can launch sea skimming AShMs

[greatkitteh]

We also have Growlers and VLO aircraft that can launch sea skimming AShMs

 

Still doesn't make planes invincible

[ArcKnox]

It does when your AShMs out range their SAMs

[LordRahl2]

Yeah, modern planes are pretty much invincible if they want to be if they are not facing another airpower.

 

Humorously, one of yall's biggest RL complaints about the game is straight up false.