Four Needs To Go

[Donald Trump]

he's locking threads all the time and its ruining this community

 

like this thread : https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/13361-is-there-a-point-to-it-all

 

decent debate and locked

 

remove him from moderator team none of the other mods are this bad

 

#FourNeedsToGo2016

[Nadir Aminu]

It takes two mods to lock a thread.

[Milord]

To much order and bureaucracy will ruin the spirit of the debates.

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

Moderation Staff:

Speculation regarding the identities of game staff and/or revealing identities of game staff is strictly prohibited. These actions are punishable up to, and including, a ban on your forum and game account.

Being rude or disrespectful to any of the game staff is not allowed. Creating posts “calling out†moderators or the game staff is prohibited.

Impersonation of, or an intention to imply that you are a moderator, administrator, or other P&W official is forbidden.

Any concerns with the moderation staff should be addressed with the game administrator, Sheepy, via pm.

Abuse of the report system is strictly prohibited.

Do not ask to become a moderator. Moderation positions are invitation only.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Red

[Kamea Arano]

he's locking threads all the time and its ruining this community

 

It requires two mods to lock a thread. !@#$ing about Four will only make a fool out of yourself. It's you kind of people that RUIN this community. 

 

In addition. I think Four is one of the best mods on the forums. One of the most active mods around. I'd rather have a forums with competent moderators than boo-hooing about thread locking.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Solaris

[Donald Trump]

It requires two mods to lock a thread. !@#$ing about Four will only make a fool out of yourself. It's you kind of people that RUIN this community. 

 

In addition. I think Four is one of the best mods on the forums. One of the most active mods around. I'd rather have a forums with competent moderators than boo-hooing about thread locking.

the mods are crap. i have given links to thread with legitimate debate that were locked abrasively

 

meanwhile extreme islamic posters are allowed to post homophobic drivel and it's allowed

[Clarke]

I'm annoyed threads are being locked but I can see why most were locked since they didn't have a lot of content in the OP, however Lizards thread didn't quite make much sense. 

I will say however they're hiding being the vague reasoning they give, should be more obvious as to which rule exactly they're referring. I probably am more referring to user rule breaks as those can be very vague and with that unjustified because they were so vague. Its also worth remembering the mods and Sheepy could be partly leftists but they seem reasonable fair. .

Edited July 10, 2016 by Lightning

[Alice Abernathy]

It does require two mods to lock a thread, and I was the second mod to approve the lock.

 

Calling out moderation is also against the rules.

 

 

I highly suggest you go over the forum rules and the subforums ruled.

[Milord]

Well the "attack" on the mod isn't very prudent, but locking normal Filosofic debates for no apparent reason is also not prudent.

[Alice Abernathy]

Well the "attack" on the mod isn't very prudent, but locking normal Filosofic debates for no apparent reason is also not prudent.

We had apparently reasons. We even linked the rules to the comment that directs you to review the rules.

 

Here is a well written out response, and everyone ahould read it, considering every thread locked can be reasoned with this argument

 

LordRahl2 and the Community,

 

If you are posting this type of question here I would assume you did not actually read either the warn you received or the rules (which have been linked several times) for the specific forum the threads were closed and(or) OP's were warned in. For you and the community, here are those rules:

 

 

 

 

The rules are not difficult to understand, comprehend, or follow. There are many instances where some threads are simply misplaced and those threads are then moved to the correct forum, mostly spam, or "other game" discussions.

 

The threads which you are seeing locked - approved by Alice and Myself - did not meet the posting standards of the specific forum you are talking about, more specifically here are the general rules broken:

 

 

 

 

Each thread that was locked has been locked for good reason. General Discussion and General Debate forums are for well-presented, and thought out posts to create a substantial discussion or debate on the OP's topic. One-liners, simple 3 word statements or opinions are not what belong in these forums. Please select the proper forum for those types of posts.

 

You might ask - "why not contact the OP and have them change their post to fit the proper etiquette?" - and to that I say, Yeah, thats a great Idea, but it has been tried and time and time again the same people are breaking the same rules, so they become locked with 2nd mod approval and the OP gets a verbal warn.

 

You might also say - "Four, what does it matter as long as there is a discussion or debate going on regardless of the OP quality?" - and to that I say, I (we) are moderators. We are here to enforce the rules set by previous moderators and admin. If we were to not enforce those rules, there is no point to continue moderation of the forums. If the rules are too strict I would advise creating a post on rule proposals, messaging me or another moderator about the rules and your changes and we can present them to mod staff OR messaging Alex directly to see what his input is.

 

 

tl;dr: I do thank you for bringing this to the public eye, because quite frankly - those forums are attracting way too many reports for no reason. These threads were closed and OP's and others were warned because of rule breaks. If rules are not broken, threads in these forums do not get closed/moved and OP's don't get warned.

 

Also, I just want to add that if you don't know the rules for specific forums they are almost always pinned to the top of each forum you're posting in.

[Milord]

So the topic wasn't rotten it was one post who closed an entire topic?

[Jodo]

I haven't had any problems with ANY mod, especially Four. Few times I've been warned by them, talked to them, got an explaination and was pretty chill about it.

 

Have you considered not acting like a brat?

[Milord]

I haven't had any problems with ANY mod, especially Four. Few times I've been warned by them, talked to them, got an explaination and was pretty chill about it.

Have you considered not acting like a brat?

I don't know if u are talking to me , but you probably right there is no point of talking to people who can't hear.

[Frank Todd]

Ty to the OP for liking the original subject matter.

 

To be frank, isn't it a bit late to be locking it out since it has the amount of content that it has now? "granted I was a bit out of the loop with the 'it needs more than a paragraph' rule", but it has nearly enough matter afterwards...

 

I get that it broke the rules, but shouldn't have ya caught it a little quicker instead of letting go on for *Pulls out list* Oh that's right... A month.

[Frank Todd]

I haven't had any problems with ANY mod, especially Four. Few times I've been warned by them, talked to them, got an explaination and was pretty chill about it.

 

Have you considered not acting like a brat?

 

Eh just because you haven't doesn't mean others haven't as well. Mods are people as well and can be biased and/or at fault sometimes.

 

So the topic wasn't rotten it was one post who closed an entire topic?

Yet other topics go on regardless of content (whether it be racist or bigoted) they might as well spit on Labes.

 

*Directed at the quote Alice posted*

Also, rather than sound like the sarcastic snob in that "quote" why don't you just talk like an adult, cause that shit sounded super snarky. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Albgast Vulpes

[Frank Todd]

*Cough Cough*

 

https://politicsandwar.com/forums/index.php?/topic/13814-is-there-a-point-to-it-all-20/

[Four]

Thank you for your opinion OP. 

 

I just read through the comments and I can understand and get on the level of each of  you who are posting here. I'll attempt to answer the questions above as well as reply to statements listed.

 

First lets discuss rules and rule breaks:

 

Rules here were set even before I became a Mod. They were created and applied by previous moderators and the admin (alex). As a moderator we are told to enforce those rules and to enforce those rules we use punishments such as warns and topic moderations - which can be anything from editing out rule breaks in a topic post or locking a topic. Very rarely do we ever just hide a topic or delete anything, in fact I can't recall that ever happening. When a member of the community breaks a rule which is listed in the general forum rules or the specific sub-forum rules, there will be a punishment following. Almost always I try to find a way to not deliver a warn - most times I can't. Warns are delivered in ways of a report, the report is then discussed by moderators and admin and a proper punishment is decided on. This punishment is 9 times out of 10 a Verbal Warning only. 

 

Why am I telling you all this?

 

I'm telling you because the debate and discussion forum are where we get the BULK of our reports from. The community does actually use that report feature available and we do respond to those reports. When I started modding I would contact OP's themselves and notify them of the rule breaks, some would change their posts to the proper etiquette, some would change their post to not be so offending - but the bulk don't. 

 

When a rule is broken, a punishment will follow. 

 

 

What side are moderators on?

 

I can tell you that no matter what you think you know about me or my character, I approach each report stripped of bias related to the subject matter being discussed. So there isn't any "we are locking this bc its too far left/right" or "they are talking about gays so now we lock" - get that out of your heads. The reason they are closed are because we receive reports, discuss reports, and decide on an action. Most times, even though you might not agree, reported posts are in violation of rules here, either generally or specifically. There are no sides. 

 

 

 

Why wasn't this thread locked before if it is so bad and in violation?

 

If the calculations are correct there are nearly 300,000 posts on this forum with more posts being added as we speak. To be able to see every single topic and every single reply would basically mean I need to quit my day job and then just focus on every single new topic and reply. Well, Alex doesn't even pay me in selfies and hugs anymore - so that won't be happening.

 

Simply put, sometimes some topics and some posts get overlooked. Think of it like RL policing in a city. Police can't stop and prevent every single crime from happening. They can be proactive and try and prevent them from happening (rules/guidelines) and get involved with the community on a personal level to route out problem areas (my integration with the NatRP community and personal conversations with community members)....but that is pretty much how far we can go. Most items are reactive - we get a report, we see a problem, we act. 

 

That is why some posts are closed later rather than sooner, but we always say that if you see a violation, say something. In addition to long-waits, sometimes we have moderators busy with RL which leaves the forums for 1-2 moderators to moderate, you can't expect every post to be reviewed and read and in addition, there needs to be 2nd moderator approval, when there is only 1 moderator we have to wait a little while so punishments get pushed.

 

 

What can you do?

 

I understand the group here being unhappy. I ask that you not be ignorant to that fact. In order for any group to make progress we must discuss these things, so I do thank people for bringing moderation tactics to the surface so the community can get involved. However, I do advise to not handle such matters with ignorance to the rules or to each other. We are a mash of people, ideas, and opinions from all walks of life all over the world. There are going to be problems. How will you solve it?

 

If you're blunt with moderators without providing access to your thoughts to change what your problem is, how can we help? OP is calling for removal of myself, how will that help? Another moderator who's job is to moderate will be put in my place.

 

Instead, identify the problem (you did), assess the opinion of the community (you did), then decide on a profitable solution (you didn't). So let me help you out. 

 

Problem:

 

Four and other moderators are locking threads in the debate and discussion forums. We don't see anything wrong with the posts being locked and in most posts there is substantial discussion and debate occurring. In addition, some posts are from as far back as a month ago - yet they are being locked after lasting for that long.

 

 

Public Opinion:

 

From my POV - the community of PW generally agrees that this is a problem

 

Moderation View:

 

It is the moderators duty to search for rule violations and respond to rule violations in all corners of this forum. Those who have been warned broke rules st by moderators and admin and threads have been locked due to rule violations.

 

 

Solution:

 

Yours: "four needs to go"     <-- not a solution

 

Mine:

 

1. Follow the rules of the sub-forums you are posting in. These rules are posted and pinned to the top of the topic view of each sub forum. There is also a redirect link at the top of the main forum view that links you directly to the general forum rules/guidelines. Read them and understand them. If you don't break a rule, you don't receive a warn and topics do not get locked or moved. 
2. Because these problems result from rule breaks, maybe the rules of the debate and discussion forum need to be revised? I would consider looking them over and see what you would change. I'm a laid back guy, shoot me a message with your proposed changes and I will most certainly discuss them with you and share them with moderation staff. Likewise, any other moderator, alex, or a public post in these forums with your rule changes would also be addressed. 

 

 

Guys, ultimately this is your community (with regards to Alex being the actual owner). The community and atmosphere is decided and created by you, your topics, and your responses. I urge you to respect each other, each others opinions and beliefs, and each others lifestyles. In addition, I ask that you understand that this community is not your country, state, city, province.....area of the world that you live in. This website and this game are owned by an individual and that individual sets the rules and policies that we must all obey. Moderation is here to enforce those rules and policies and all we ask is that you guys follow them. 

 

Thanks.