Hypocrisy, Controversy, and Religion

[PiratePaul]

My religion tells me not to judge others, whether they be gay, straight, or different from me in anyway.
But others may view the matter differently, and I respect that.

What I want you all to see, is that not all Christians are against homosexuality, Jesus says nothing about it in the Bible, and there is nowhere in the Bible where it is called a sin to be homosexual.
Proof
(if you read this, read all of it before jumping to conclusions)

I would like to see some other opinions on the subject, but please be thoughtful and consider how other people feel and will react.

Thanks.

[Lambdadelta]

Sorry, but...

 

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

 

Romans 1:26

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

 

1 Timothy 1:9-10

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.

 

---

In short, to claim that the Bible does not denounce homosexuality is nonsense and to claim as a Christian that your religion doesn't hate on homosexuals and deny them the salvation promised to good Christians is disingenuous, if not catastrophically myopic.

[CrackedMind]

I disagree with that assessment Lambda, but I'm sure if I list out the reasons why, you'll have a rebuttal, so I'll try to end this now. This is a stupid discussion. I don't mean it doesn't have it's place: this is an interesting conversations to have amongst friends or people in RL. But no one's ideas will be changed from this thread, it'll just create fighting and induce trolling. The internet is not a good place for actual debate.

[Jaffacalling]

!@#$ing !@#$ you know religion isn't real right? haahha just stop posting

[TWAIN]

To clear it out: Christianity teaches tolerance. It does not mean that certain actions are not condemned. In other words, "Do what you want, nobody should care about that, but it doesn't mean what you're doing isn't wrong."

[Sabriel]

Sorry, but...

 

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

I'm not gonna touch the NT stuff, but hey, don't mess with the Jewish Bible. The commonly used quotes from Leviticus are a monstrosity of translation. From Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek to Latin to German to English. There's a lot of different anthropological evidence to show that the Leviticus passage has nothing to do with homosexuality in the original text, or that if it does, it's not what Christians like to translate it to. Of note, the "it is abomination" thing isn't anywhere near an accurate translation of the Hebrew, and it's more accurate to say "it is ritually unclean". That is, you do it, and you need to purify yourself before going to the temple. Heterosexual sex can also make someone ritually unclean. So will certain types of work, and a woman who's menstruated will also need to purify before going to temple. How fortunate that Judaism has the mikvah ,the ritual purification bath.

 

In short, keep the bigotry outta the Jewish books, since it's not there to begin with.

[Hereno]

ITT: Nobody mentions Sodom and Gomorrah

[heidi]

Wow. Lambda, you're slipping. Sodomy and homosexuality are two different things, related yes, but separated.

 

The bible continually refers to 'abusers/defilers of themselves' and 'lying with mankind' but such statements refer to sodomy, i.e. the homosexual sexual act, not the state of being that is homosexuality.

[TWAIN]

Now now, what else would be the purpose of having any sexual orientation?

[RedArmy BushMan]

Now now, what else would be the purpose of having any sexual orientation?

Sometimes a stiff ridged shoulder is better to cry on than a small soft one.

[heidi]

Now now, what else would be the purpose of having any sexual orientation?

That's irrelevant to this topic.

 

The OP says

 

there is nowhere in the Bible where it is called a sin to be homosexual.

and it is bang on the money. The Bible says sodomy is a sin, but not homosexuality. It's supposed to be fine if you abstain from any 'immoral' actions, and turn inwardly towards Christ for guidance and contemplation and all that yadda yadda bull.

[Grillick]

It's also true that Jesus (according to the Bible) never said anything about homosexuality.

 

Y'all need to stop listening so much to Paul. He wasn't even a Christian. He was the first troll, and he trolled an entire religion so hard they thought his word was law.

[YeshuaChrist]

Sorry, but...

 

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

 

Romans 1:26

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

 

1 Timothy 1:9-10

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.

 

---

In short, to claim that the Bible does not denounce homosexuality is nonsense and to claim as a Christian that your religion doesn't hate on homosexuals and deny them the salvation promised to good Christians is disingenuous, if not catastrophically myopic.

You're not entirely wrong, but the founder of the religion did not denounce homosexuality. Your quoting Jews and Saint Paul (he never met Jesus in person), However, since Saint Paul's vision of Jesus is accepted by most denominations, I can't pass it off as complete !@#$.

[PiratePaul]

Sorry, but...

 

Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination

 

Romans 1:26

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.

 

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

 

1 Timothy 1:9-10

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine.

 

---

In short, to claim that the Bible does not denounce homosexuality is nonsense and to claim as a Christian that your religion doesn't hate on homosexuals and deny them the salvation promised to good Christians is disingenuous, if not catastrophically myopic.

I should have stopped with Jesus said nothing about it, but the New Testament also says that Christians are not bound by all of the laws created by the Old Testament (such as not eating certain foods, and other undescribed things) 

 

Christianity, as a religion, does not hate homosexuality. I believe that it is not my job to judge a person, and I notice that some have forgotten these passages of the Bible.

 

And my personal interpretation of the Bible is that all those that believe in Christ and accept him as their savior, will go to heaven. Those that don't will go to hell.

 

(And thank you for being serious with this so far)

[Lambdadelta]

The bible continually refers to 'abusers/defilers of themselves' and 'lying with mankind' but such statements refer to sodomy, i.e. the homosexual sexual act, not the state of being that is homosexuality.

Sorry, but the term in Koine Greek is αÏσενοκοιται, which is widely accepted to refer to homosexuals.

Similarly, in the Vulgar Latin, the expression is neque masculorum concubitores, which is equivalent to the phrase in the King James version.

 

In any case, whether you're criminalising the person or the act makes no difference to the fact that the Bible condemns homosexual acts.

 

If the early Catholic heirarchy hadn't deemed it appropriate to hate on homosexuals, they wouldn't have included it in the New Testament.

 

I believe that it is not my job to judge a person, and I notice that some have forgotten these passages of the Bible.

You've been wrong about most of the things you've said in this thread, but on this point you're right, per:

 

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

Thus, Christians are commanded to judge only other Christians (something a great many of them fail to adhere to).

 

---

I maintain my argument that suggesting the Bible does not condemn homosexuals and their acts is an act of wishful and creative interpretation.

[PiratePaul]

Sorry, but the term in Koine Greek is αÏσενοκοιται, which is widely accepted to refer to homosexuals.

Similarly, in the Vulgar Latin, the expression is neque masculorum concubitores, which is equivalent to the phrase in the King James version.

 

In any case, whether you're criminalising the person or the act makes no difference to the fact that the Bible condemns homosexual acts.

 

If the early Catholic heirarchy hadn't deemed it appropriate to hate on homosexuals, they wouldn't have included it in the New Testament.

 

 

You've been wrong about most of the things you've said in this thread, but on this point you're right, per:

 

1 Corinthians 5:12-13

For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

Thus, Christians are commanded to judge only other Christians (something a great many of them fail to adhere to).

 

---

I maintain my argument that suggesting the Bible does not condemn homosexuals and their acts is an act of wishful and creative interpretation.

Yeah, but it is my interpretation. We shouldn't judge others.

 

End Debate

[Lambdadelta]

Yeah, but it is my interpretation. We shouldn't judge others.

Then your Bible also commands you to "put away from among yourselves that wicked person" (who judges in the place of God).

 

Ah, Scripture is quite amusing from time to time.

[Ikol]

In any case, whether you're criminalising the person or the act makes no difference to the fact that the Bible condemns homosexual acts.

 

 

So sexual orientation now demands a person to commit sexual acts? TIL (/s)

[SoS]

God made some people gay, then wrote a book criticizing them? That is too inconsistent for me.

 

One of those statements must be false to fit some specific worldview. The false statement must be the one that has a great deal of scientific research suggesting it's true.

[Lambdadelta]

So sexual orientation now demands a person to commit sexual acts? TIL (/s)

You speak as if sexual orientation is some kind of voluntary choice.

[PiratePaul]

The way I see it, sexual orientation is not a choice, but you choose who you have sex with.

Don't know if I worded that right.

[Lambdadelta]

The way I see it, sexual orientation is not a choice, but you choose who you have sex with.

Yeah, sure. Well, I guess I can retort that Christians sure love to choose which parts of the Bible to abide by and which parts to ignore.

Funny how the parts they abide by are the ones that agree with their opinions and the ones they ignore are the ones that disagree with them.

 

Matthew 19:24

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

A lot of them missed that particular memo, it seems.

[SoS]

The way I see it, sexual orientation is not a choice, but you choose who you have sex with.

 

Don't know if I worded that right.

Usually, heteros choose to have sex with whom they're attracted to. Homos are supposed to not have sex with whom theyre attracted to? They should burden a woman with a passionless marriage to satisfy an old book? They should miss out on one of life's most rewarding experiences by being celibate?

 

No, everyone should know and accept themselves.

[Ikol]

You speak as if sexual orientation is some kind of voluntary choice.

 

No it is not but you can live a stoic life without sex as a homosexual, if homosexual acts are forbidden by scripture what is wrong with this lifestyle?

[Sailor Jerry]

Who is to say if that lifestyle choice is or isn't voluntary?  I believe that yes, some are born the way they are and are predispostioned to be attracted to the same sex.  I also believe that at some point later in life, people who were not predispostioned at birth do make choice on the lifestyle they want to follow....say after a spouse dies or an ugly divorce or just about anything.  Could this second group have been gay along and just decided to go along with the norm for society.....possibly.  I don't think anyone really knows.  I guess the only real scientific way to find out would be to study the dna and brain patterns of straight and gay folks to see if there is any differences.....until that happens....I'm of the mind that both are probably true.