Saru

Not sure if trolling or not. Just like last time -- context matters. This is a largely RP community, and obviously the post is going to be written in the same style. The reference to Francoism should tell you that (http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Francoism).

No, wrong again. The message was directed at Partisan. And it wasn't falsified -- even though obviously Partisan (and his friends) will disagree. Nice caveat. Just because you say something is a false narrative because it doesn't fit your agenda, doesn't mean it is.

I have always made sure OOC/IC lines aren't crossed. You literally use OOC talks to get closer to people to help your IC aims. And funny to hear you accusing of us throwing Ole under the bus. I would be curious to know who he feels breached his trust. The message wasn't addressed to you, and yet again you have completely missed the mark. I will repeat again, tS is in no position to call out others on "airing dirty laundry in public".

You know full well the snakey shit you pulled. When you are talking to guys largely in an OOC capacity, trying to 'befriend' them and then sneakily try to gain something from it in game terms -- that's classless. The point is given tS's record (whether you feel all of the situations were justified is another matter) you should be the last to point and talk about airing the dirty laundry in public. Clearly you don't know what I am referring to then. Continue with your green tinted spectacles though...

I don't know about a thread, and wouldn't be surprised if one exists, but there are plenty of posts where you disparaged your ex-allies way worse and several times your government officials dumped entire logs that were supposed to be kept private. So don't try and take some sort of moral high ground...

Perhaps your government officials dumping logs of private conversations? Several times by the way. Now that's classless.

Pretty much this. My original comment was tongue in cheek.

Congrats on your victory NPO.

Yeah I used to find it pretty fun, mainly because this world was somewhat of a blank slate in terms of politics. Obviously over time relationships get more and more set in stone. And it's not like I am criticising tS/Mensa and co, because UPN literally has the longest held treaties in the game, existing even before the live version/before most alliances existed lol. But yeah I think it is more boring now. Fair enough. I would say that there is a chance that the situation gets worse than (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn't be bringing it up anyways), purely because of the fact that there aren't enough of those "realpolitik" alliances around, and not enough significant alliances in general. And to be fair I think the game hasn't gotten out of control just yet. At the start of the game I was convinced that an alliance would grow to be so dominant, where it would be hard to bring them down. GPA was looking like it may get there, but then obviously people didn't allow it. Maybe TEst will be that next?

I agree with you in regards to the politics likely becoming stagnant, but I don't think tS or whomever else should be blamed for it. I think it's just a natural consequence of these type of games, and would of been the case with other alliances involved had things shaped differently. Unless we see a surge in new players and alliances I think the politics may get pretty bland.

UPN have done it. Obviously anyone can get easily rolled if the numbers are stacked against them...

Not entering is fine, given the circumstances. Entering on the opposite side is a slap in the face imo. But no biggie, it's not like they are going to have a massive effect on the outcome.

It wasn't 'the government', it was several individuals in the government who tried to pass it through without following the due process. There is a distinction... Unexpectedly they are now aligned with you. And it is completely relevant because you are the one who raised the issue without sharing all of the facts (which I am pretty sure were shared openly in the embassy). And like we have told you time and time again in that thread, actions > words. But let's leave it to rest, we don't want to rekindle the same topic over and over.

What are you talking about? Not sure what you are reading into. "I had my suspicions that maybe some in the Mensa community and gov didn't appreciate this, and moreso appreciated the likes of tS/TKR/BK/Guardian rolling with them directly." How exactly is talking about the suspicions I held and possibilities that I had considered, spin? I think it is pretty clear that I am speaking about my own opinion at the time, based on my talks with Pfeiffer. Besides is it really that controversial to say that some in Mensa grew closer to Syndicate, Guardian, BK and TKR because they rolled with you against Rose, as opposed to us who opted to help you from the sidelines and make sure you weren't countered? Like I said, I felt that this could of been a possibility. Nowhere did I say that you had picked a side... And I was gone for a short while (funnily enough in the most critical time period), that doesn't mean I am ignorant of what took place. While I did not agree with Hans in regards to going after tS, I completely understand why he would take tS's attempts at convincing us that they won't hit us with a grain of salt. We bailed tS out in the war with Guardian and co without an obligation to do so -- and worked well with them actually. Literally after that, they started to plot to have us rolled next, despite giving us multiple assurances that this won't happen. You can't blame Hansarius on considering past precedent, when they had given us assurances of not attacking us whilst proactively plotting against us before.

You can read, well done. I believe it is just an honest reflection of events (from my perspective atleast), and obviously with the benefit of hindsight and looking at the state of Orbis now, it is easy to see what mistakes were made.

o/ LF and OoS

Perhaps you are thinking of the "Marionette War", where Guardian, Rose, SK and TEst warred with TC (UPN, DEIC, EoS, BoC) -- no one else entered in this one. The next world war after that was the VE war, where Guardian/Mensa/SK declared on VE, and UPN jumped in to help. And in between that the only thing of significance was GPA getting rolled.

There was no discussion with all of the government involved, and there was no official vote. Without mentioning the specific names and such, there were a couple of people who were really interested in pushing the tS treaty through -- and it seemed like they purposely tried to be covert. A topic went up in the government forums saying "the treaty will be announced on x", at which point I was like let's pump the breaks here, given that some of the government members had not voted, there was no discussion, and some of the government felt they were coerced into the decision because they were made to feel like the decision was made. I took it upon myself to talk to all the government, and it was understood that a mistake was made (as they were just privately spoken to, instead of in the public domain). Hans decided to take it to the membership, which were split -- but mostly against the tS treaty based on everything that had happened in the past.

Cynic actually spoke to me directly about the leaks, so the info did not come from VE. Just to give some context: UPN had a good relationship with VE, and we assumed with tS -- due to us deciding to jump into the Guardian v VE war, when they were the dominant side without a treaty and an obligation to. After the war was over we were on the verge of signing a treaty with VE. At the time I was running UPN's FA and some real life stuff came up and I wasn't online for a few days, in which Impero made the decision to act and the group of tS/VE/Rose came about. Funnily enough it was Rose's inclusion that was the most surprising. Anyway our relationship with VE was still good, even though we understood at some point down the line we will clash, as a natural consequence of us being in the two biggest blocs/spheres at the time. However VE gave assurances that they appreciated the help with Guardian, and that they will not attack us any time soon for the sake of attacking and gaining power. Whereas tS wanted exactly that, and saw it silly to hold off on what they saw as the inevitable when they had the advantage, which was true because I knew our only chance of winning that war was going to be if they break apart -- although I assumed it would be tS/VE and Rose splintering at first. Anyway tS wanting to go after UPN as soon as, and VE disagreeing and wanting to go after the likes of TEst instead is what drove the wedge between them I believe. In the end tS left Paragon, and we had a legit CB to hit them, and they were vulnerable -- but we didn't. Shortly after we signed an MDP with Mensa and Mensa signed with tS at the same time, and then the Proxy War happened, and while we did not enter on their behalf in the war, we essentially made sure that Mensa were not countered in it and that's a big reason why they were able to do as well as they done. I had my suspicions that maybe some in the Mensa community and gov didn't appreciate this, and moreso appreciated the likes of tS/TKR/BK/Guardian rolling with them directly. After the war UPN was a clear #1, allied to the key players of all spheres. This is in and around the time where Pre would complain on the radio that we were tied to around 80% of the top 15 or whatever the stat was. Anyway we had reasons to believe that Mensa saw themselves as part of the "Syndisphere group", and that Syndicate were going to target us in the future. I took a break from the game again, and UPN had decided to proactively go after Syndicate to prevent them from getting us in the future, and this is the mistake that defined the game I feel and made UPN lose its position of power. Stats wise UPN was seen as some sort of hegemoney, even though the stats didn't give an accurate presentation of everything -- but for that reason I feel like the likes of Alpha and Arrgh decided to get involved in the conflict. Also going head on against the Syndicate ment that we lost the Mensa treaty, which to me was really important -- because I knew that we needed them onside. (Another problem is that the relationship was heavily based on just me and Pfeiffer, as opposed to the two alliances). So yeah from my perspective at least I feel like not hitting tS when we hard clear evidence of them coming after us, then protecting Mensa from getting countered in the war, meaning they grew relatively stronger to many but not helping them directly meaning that they saw their other allies as closer to them, and then finally going into Syndicate head on, which further consolidated that sphere, and we lost the war in devastating fashion and were subject to big reparations, were the combined factors in the "Syndisphere" becoming dominant. You thought you had the treaty agreed. A few of our government members who were pro-Syndicate decided to try and push the treaty under the table without consulting all of the government members. So there wasn't even an official vote for it. I can't recall the specifics of it, but I remember tS being in some sort of potential trouble in and around at this time -- and in my head it seemed that tS just appear during these times to try and get more support. Anyway my problem with it was that I felt some of the government were doing shady shit so I called them out in the government forums and Hans raised the issue with the membership, of which the majority agreed that they did not want the tS treaty. The feeling was that we will judge you on your actions as opposed to your words, as trusting your words had been detrimental to us in the past. So when we put a stop to the treaty talks, but said we are open to further discussion and will judge you based on your actions, you literally attacked us in like a week lol. Which is obviously fair enough from a strategic point of view, but left a sour taste in our mouths. And for the record the pro-tS guys who tried to push the treaty through without following the procedures and consulting all the gov ended up forming a splinter alliance after losing the elections and signed a protectorate with tS. The government do vote on their treaties, after a discussion. That was why the tS thing fell through, because some people tried to push it through without a discussion with all of the government and advisors, and without an official vote.

Greatest throughout the "live" version of the game in terms of activity and consistency throughout all the wars is undoubtedly Mensa. The likes of tS are up there when it comes to the war planning and such too, and have done particularly well in some wars because of the 'spies' in other camps. Right now, pixel for pixel, taking into account nation builds/activity levels/coordination and so on I would guess that it is Mensa, TEst, tS in that order. And whilst it is not the case any longer, and I may be biased, but I believe at one point UPN was the greatest "mass alliance" at one point, and comparible to the Mensa's/tS's. Unfortunately losing some key figures, and players losing interest in the game and leaving means that is no longer the case. The more interesting question would be who out of the significant alliances are the worst.

The rest seem pretty hard. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get it lol

1. "If I ever loved you I’ll always love you, that’s how I was raised" -- UPN, I don't think we have ever cancelled a treaty in P&W 2. "Don’t get hyped for the moment then start to backpedal†-- Pantheon 3. "F*ck being all buddy buddy with the opposition/ It’s like a front of a plane, n*gga, it’s all business/ But I haven’t flown with y'all boys in a minute" -- Arrgh, don't engage in politics per se and have been hired as mercenaries before/like to raid 4. "You're supposed to put your pride aside and ride for me" -- Mensa, generally seem like they are down to ride whatever the circumstances and expect the same 5. "I'm managed by my friends that I grew up with / I'd rather give that 15% to people I f--k with" -- Rose (although in my case could be UPN with Hans leading and tax rate being 15% ) 6. "Started from the bottom now my whole team here." -- tS 7. "Master bedroom, where we get it poppin Just ignore all the skeletons in my closet I'm a walkin come-up, I'm a bank deposit Sell my secrets and get top dollar" -- Has to be NPO with the 'skeleton' and bank deposit references. 2 and 5 were pure guesses.

TEst will sign another treaty.

So many arguments over essentially trivial semantics.

TEst - Roz Wei