Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The fact that you don't know the difference between Hadith and the bible, Is pretty sad. I'm just going to simplify it for you and hopefully you will understand: Prophet Muhammad (saw) said a time will come when there won't be any Caliphate on earth for a period of time, but corrupt/erosive monarchy and despotic kingships, and then the Caliphate would return upon the prophetic methodology. So the fact that Muslims experienced 91 years without a Caliphate is not something they find surprising or consider a defeat but rather something they expected and anticipated. The current form of Christianity that is prevalent in the world today teaches paganism (3 gods: The Farther, The Son, and The Holy Ghost) as opposed to the initial message of monotheism Jesus came with, but that was a separate point aimed at answering the question you raised regarding whether or not Christians and Muslims believed in the same God. There are still some monotheistic Christians but they are a very small minority, unfortunately. The fact that you don't know the difference between Hadith and the bible, Is pretty sad. I'm just going to simplify it for you and hopefully you will understand: Prophet Muhammad (saw) said a time will come when there won't be any Caliphate on earth for a period of time, but corrupt/erosive monarchy and despotic kingships, and then the Caliphate would return upon the prophetic methodology. So the fact that Muslims experienced 91 years without a Caliphate is not something they find surprising or consider a defeat but rather something they expected and anticipated. The current form of Christianity that is prevalent in the world today teaches paganism (3 gods: The Farther, The Son, and The Holy Ghost) as opposed to the initial message of monotheism Jesus came with, but that was a separate point aimed at answering the question you raised regarding whether or not Christians and Muslims believed in the same God. There are still some monotheistic Christians but they are a very small minority, unfortunately. that is false. If you look at people in the world more people are Christians than any other religion. Who is more likely to understand Christianity better? An actual Christian like me? Or a Radical Islamist Pagan idiot? Edited October 2, 2015 by Lysanderius 1 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 The Holy Trinity is one God, made of one essence, there is no other God. Your understanding of Christianity is wrong. Christianity is a monotheistic religion, again you show your ignorance. But you say Jesus is 100% God; The Farther is 100% God; The Holy Spirit is 100% God; That's 300% = 3 Gods. Unless you are saying they are each 33.33333333333333% God. It's basic maths. Also, to say that Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane (Mathew 26:36-39), is beyond ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Wellington Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Also, to say that Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane (Mathew 26:36-39), is beyond ridiculous. but believing in a deity that draws the line at the deli aisle is perfect example of sanity ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 What does Church mean? It means a unified body with one set of beliefs, Like Vivke said there is no unified body. Definition of Church: "A building used for public Christian worship." that is false. If you look at people in the world more people are Christians than any other religion. Well, that only if you include both Catholics and Protestants under the title of "Christians" when they both say the other is going to the hell fire. If you separate the two, as you should, then Sunni Muslims would be in the majority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 But you say Jesus is 100% God; The Farther is 100% God; The Holy Spirit is 100% God; That's 300% = 3 Gods. Unless you are saying they are each 33.33333333333333% God. It's basic maths. Also, to say that Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane (Mathew 26:36-39), is beyond ridiculous. Nope The trinity are all one God, each part is one and the same, although they have different functions. It is ridiculous to think that God must conform to human understanding. Who would want to believe in a God who is basically confined to humans understanding? Now I have answered your question will you my previous questions? 2 Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Definition of Church: "A building used for public Christian worship." That isn't the definition, not as used by Christ. The church is the body, the bride of Christ even. Do your homework. Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Nope The trinity are all one God, each part is one and the same, although they have different functions. It is ridiculous to think that God must conform to human understanding. Who would want to believe in a God who is basically confined to humans understanding? Now I have answered your question will you my previous questions? You haven't. At all. You are merely evading my points. And the word trinity does not appear anywhere in the bible: New Bible Dictionary: “The term ‘Trinity’ is not itself found in the Bible. It was first used by Tertullian at the close of the 2nd century, but received wide currency [common use in intellectual discussion] and formal elucidation [clarification] only in the 4th and 5th centuries†(1996, “Trinityâ€). This is long after the Bible was completed, and the apostles were long dead in their graves. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia acknowledges that “ ‘trinity’ is a second-century term found nowhere in the Bible, and the Scriptures present no finished trinitarian statement†(1988, Vol. 4, “Trinity,†p. 914). It further states that “church fathers crystallized the doctrine in succeeding centuriesâ€â€”long after the apostles had passed from the scene. The HarperCollins Bible Dictionary tells us, “The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT [New Testament]†(Paul Achtemeier, editor, 1996, “Trinityâ€). The HarperCollins Encyclopedia of Catholicism states: “Today, however, scholars generally agree that there is no doctrine of the Trinity as such in either the OT [ Old Testament ] or the NT [ New Testament ] . . . It would go far beyond the intention and thought-forms of the OT to suppose that a late-fourth-century or thirteenth-century Christian doctrine can be found there . . . Likewise, the NT does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity†(Richard McBrien, general editor, 1995, “God,†pp. 564-565). The New Encyclopaedia Britannica, in its article on the Trinity, explains: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies . . . It was not until the 4th century that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons†(1985 edition, Micropaedia, Vol. 11, p. 928). The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology points out that “primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church†(Colin Brown, editor, Vol. 2, 1976, “God,†p. 84). Historian H.G. Wells, in his noted work The Outline of History, points out, “There is no evidence that the apostles of Jesus ever heard of the trinity—at any rate from him†(1920, Vol. 2, p. 499). Martin Luther, the German priest who initiated the Protestant Reformation, conceded, “It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man†(reproduced in The Sermons of Martin Luther, John Lenker, editor, Vol. 3, 1988, p. 406). The Oxford Companion to the Bible states: “Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon [i.e., actual Scripture]†(Bruce Metzger and Michael Coogan, editors, 1993, “Trinity,†p. 782). Professor Charles Ryrie, in his respected work Basic Theology, writes: “Many doctrines are accepted by evangelicals as being clearly taught in the Scripture for which there are no proof texts. The doctrine of the Trinity furnishes the best example of this. It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity . . . In fact, there is not even one proof text, if by proof text we mean a verse or passage that ‘clearly’ states that there is one God who exists in three persons†(1999, p. 89). Ryrie goes on to state: “The above illustrations prove the fallacy of concluding that if something is not proof texted in the Bible we cannot clearly teach the results . . . If that were so, I could never teach the doctrine of the Trinity†(p. 90). Millard Erickson, research professor of theology at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, writes that the Trinity “is not clearly or explicitly taught anywhere in Scripture, yet it is widely regarded as a central doctrine, indispensable to the Christian faith. In this regard, it goes contrary to what is virtually an axiom of biblical doctrine, namely, that there is a direct correlation between the scriptural clarity of a doctrine and its cruciality to the faith and life of the church. “In view of the difficulty of the subject and the great amount of effort expended to maintain this doctrine, we may well ask ourselves what might justify all this trouble†( God in Three Persons: A Contemporary Interpretation of the Trinity, 1995,p. 12). Professor Erickson further states that the Trinity teaching “is not present in biblical thought, but arose when biblical thought was pressed into this foreign mold [of Greek concepts]. Thus, the doctrine of the Trinity goes beyond and even distorts what the Bible says about God†(p. 20). Professor Erickson later points out: “It is claimed that the doctrine of the Trinity is a very important, crucial, and even basic doctrine. If that is indeed the case, should it not be somewhere more clearly, directly, and explicitly stated in the Bible? If this is the doctrine that especially constitutes Christianity’s uniqueness . . . how can it be only implied in the biblical revelation? . . . For here is a seemingly crucial matter where the Scriptures do not speak loudly and clearly. “Little direct response can be made to this charge. It is unlikely that any text of Scripture can be shown to teach the doctrine of the Trinity in a clear, direct, and unmistakable fashion†(pp. 108-109). Later in this booklet we will consider various scriptures often used to support the Trinity doctrine. Shirley Guthrie, Jr., professor of theology at Columbia Theological Seminary, writes: “The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither the word ‘trinity’ itself nor such language as ‘one-in-three,’ ‘three-in-one,’ one ‘essence’ (or ‘substance’), and three ‘persons,’ is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient church taken from classical Greek philosophy†( Christian Doctrine, 1994, pp. 76-77).†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The word Trinity may not be in the bible, it is a word that is used to describe something that is heavily implied. The Jews attempt to stone Jesus because he calls himself I AM, and thus it is now time for some exegesis: John 8 says: Dispute Over Who Jesus Is 21Once more Jesus said to them, “I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.†22This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?†23But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.†25“Who are you?†they asked. “Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,†Jesus replied. 26“I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.†27They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. 28So Jesus said, “When you have lifted upa the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.†30Even as he spoke, many believed in him. There is a key part to this section of this passage, Jesus is believed to be 100% Human and 100% God, otherwise he could not take up the sins of the world. God is without sin, there is nothing evil in him and he cannot abide evil. When Christ was on the cross he took the sins of the world upon himself. temporarily giving up his divinity and taking up the sin of the world, thus the father forsook him on the cross. This is central to Christianity and understanding it. Jesus is not another God, but God the father. In John 10 he says: 24The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.†25Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc ; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.†31Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?†33“We are not stoning you for any good work,†they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.†You cannot get any clearer idea as to the views of Jesus about himself than that. If these views are wrong then Jesus is no prophet and Islam is wrong, If he is correct your prophet Muhammed is wrong. Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are 31To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.†33They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?†34Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.b †39“Abraham is our father,†they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,†said Jesus, “then you wouldc do what Abraham did. 40As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the works of your own father.†“We are not illegitimate children,†they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.†42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.†Jesus’ Claims About Himself 48The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?†49“I am not possessed by a demon,†said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.†52At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?†54Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.†57“You are not yet fifty years old,†they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!†58“Very truly I tell you,†Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!†59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds Here again Jesus lays out who he is and what the implications of that. If you say that Jesus is not who he said he was, you are not following the true God, the God who actually matters. Will you accept Jesus, or will you deny him? Denying him has eternal consequences. I believe in the reality of Hell as any orthodox Christian does tl;dr You cannot get any clearer idea as to the views of Jesus about himself than that. If these views are wrong then Jesus is no prophet and Islam is wrong, If he is correct your prophet Muhammed is wrong. AKA Ibrahim's understanding of Christianity is alien to orthodox Christianity. As to how the Trinity works we have already covered that. Edited October 2, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker Faris Wheeler Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) But you say Jesus is 100% God; The Farther is 100% God; The Holy Spirit is 100% God; That's 300% = 3 Gods. Unless you are saying they are each 33.33333333333333% God. It's basic maths. Also, to say that Jesus was praying to himself in the garden of Gethsemane (Mathew 26:36-39), is beyond ridiculous. Bro, if you really knew Christianity, they are all of the same god. Jesus is the Human form of God. The Farther is another name for god. The holy Spirit is the same god. In the 10 Commandments the 1ST Commandment is "Thou shall Only Worship God and the Holy Spirit as they are one" Again who is more likely to know more about Christianity? ACTUAL CHRISTIANS? or this piece of $!#& idiot who knows nothing about God? Edited October 2, 2015 by Lysanderius 1 Peace will never be accomplished without war, but war cannot happen without peace.... or something like that idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) There is a key part to this section of this passage, Jesus is believed to be 100% Human and 100% God, otherwise he could not take up the sins of the world. God is without sin, there is nothing evil in him and he cannot abide evil. When Christ was on the cross he took the sins of the world upon himself. temporarily giving up his divinity and taking up the sin of the world, thus the father forsook him on the cross. This is central to Christianity and understanding it. Jesus is not another God, but God the father. Hold up. Why doesn't God simply forgive the sins of the world? Why does innocent blood have to spilt for the crimes of the guilty before he can forgive the guilty? It's like a judge shooting up a kindergarten in order to forgive all the world's serial killer and rapists. You are saying Jesus came into existence, but was also beginning less, he was mortal, yet immortal, he was severely limited in what he could do, yet all powerful at the same time, was limited in his knowledge (forgot what season it was among other things), yet was also all knowing, etc, etc.... I have never heard of such a contradictory statement in all my life. You cannot get any clearer idea as to the views of Jesus about himself than that. If these views are wrong then Jesus is no prophet and Islam is wrong, If he is correct your prophet Muhammed is wrong. "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, who given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are One." Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not state that Jesus is God's equal. On the contrary the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than all...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus. Also I find it shameful that you left out Jesus' response to that final accusation by the Jews, in which he proves their accusation wrong by their own text: "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “godsâ€â€™? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:34-36) You are with the Jews and I am with Jesus on this "Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a MAN accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Act 2:22) Jesus was to his disciples, as to early Christians, a man, not a God. Here again Jesus lays out who he is and what the implications of that. If you say that Jesus is not who he said he was, you are not following the true God, the God who actually matters. Will you accept Jesus, or will you deny him? Denying him has eternal consequences. I believe in the reality of Hell as any orthodox Christian does. The words being referred to here is á¼Î³á½¼ (egó) which indeed translates as "I" And εἰμί (eimi), which can be translated as "am, have, have been, it is I, was" (depending on the sentence and context). εἰμί (eimi) has been translated as "have been" in other verses in the New Testament like "You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent ahead of Him.’" (John 3:28) The context of Jesus' statement is about whether or not he saw Abraham. 29, Jesus says he only does that which pleases God. In 33, 39, 53 and 57, the Jews declare that they are the descendants of Abraham. 37, Jesus confirms that they are Abraham's descendants. 57, the Jews say that Jesus never saw Abraham. Then Jesus responded by saying "I have seen Abraham before he was born" I won't be responding to anything more for today. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (Mark 10:18) "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19) Edited October 2, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Hold up. Why doesn't God simply forgive the sins of the world? Why does innocent blood have to spilt for the crimes of the guilty before he can forgive the guilty? It's like a judge shooting up a kindergarten in order to forgive all the world's serial killer and rapists. God has forgiven the sins of those who admit they have sinned, that is the beauty and the cost of free will. With freedom comes great responsibility. God so loved the world that he gave his only son that the world might be saved. There is no real justice in the crucifixion, an innocent man went to his death like a lamb to the slaughter. He was the ultimate sacrifice You are saying Jesus came into existence, but was also beginning less, he was mortal, yet immortal, he was severely limited in what he could do, yet all powerful at the same time, was limited in his knowledge (forgot what season it was among other things), yet was also all knowing, etc, etc.... I have never heard of such a contradictory statement in all my life. I say to you, read 1 Corinthians 1, it explains a lot. God is wonderfully contradictory to Humans, we are not God so how can we fully understand his mind and how he works? "...Neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, who given them to me, is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are One." Jesus and the Father are one in that no man can pluck the sheep out of either's hand. It does not state that Jesus is God's equal. On the contrary the words of Jesus, " My Father, who gave them me is Greater than all...," in John 10:29 completely negates this claim, otherwise we are left with a contradiction just a sentence apart. All includes everyone even Jesus. How can the Father and I be one if Jesus is not claiming to be God? In early scripts verse 29 reads What my Father has given me is greater than all Also I find it shameful that you left out Jesus' response to that final accusation by the Jews, in which he proves their accusation wrong by their own text: "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “godsâ€â€™? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:34-36) Why is it shameful, because Jesus is proving to the Jews that he is precisely God? Have you not read Psalm 82 from which Jesus is quoting, it relates to how God absolutely wipes the floor with false Gods 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “godsâ€â€¯â€™d ? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.†39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp Why do the Jews try to seize him if he is not saying he is God? If he was merely a son of God, in a non-begotten way, he would be like all the people in the world, like you and me. Why would the Jews stone him for that You are with the Jews and I am with Jesus on this "Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a MAN accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know." (Act 2:22) Jesus was to his disciples, as to early Christians, a man, not a God. If that was the case why would they leave in passages like John 10? It is awfully inconvenient and embarrassing when a great prophet pronounces himself God. John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.†John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us†This clearly indicates that the early church believed that Jesus is God in the flesh, the Hagia Sophia himself. You might like to look up the following verses: 1 Timothy 3:16 John 13:13 - note I AM, the name of the Jewish God as told to Moses. 2 Corinthians 4:4 - An image shows a visible likeness of the reality Colossians 2:9 Hebrews 1:8 I could go on, but why bother? It is obvious that the early Christians did believe God to be Jesus and visa-versa. The words being referred to here is á¼Î³á½¼ (egó) which indeed translates as "I" And εἰμί (eimi), which can be translated as "am, have, have been, it is I, was" (depending on the sentence and context). εἰμί (eimi) has been translated as "have been" in other verses in the New Testament like "You yourselves are my witnesses that I said, ‘I am not the Christ,’ but, ‘I have been sent ahead of Him.’" (John 3:28) The context of Jesus' statement is about whether or not he saw Abraham. 29, Jesus says he only does that which pleases God. In 33, 39, 53 and 57, the Jews declare that they are the descendants of Abraham. 37, Jesus confirms that they are Abraham's descendants. 57, the Jews say that Jesus never saw Abraham. Then Jesus responded by saying "I have seen Abraham before he was born" I won't be responding to anything more for today. "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (Mark 10:18) "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19) I would love to know who taught you about Christianity, because they really haven't done a good job. You have done your usual trick of trying to change the topic and make other people answer your questions, when they asked you a question first. Again I ask you: By true exponent I mean who influences your reading of the Qu'ran? Who taught you Sharia law? Which Islamic clerics/philosophers do you class as being truly Islamic? Where do you get your worldview from, as it is totally alien to the worldview of Muslims I know. I know they are challenging, but I want to fully understand where you are coming from. What do you think of Salafism and Wahhabism? Why you no answer? Are you self taught and thus have no legitimate basis for your believes, as appears to be the case with your knowledge on Christianity? What are you running from? Just answer the questions I asked earlier and you might actually gain a bit of respect. 2 Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stetonic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) So page 8.Well a read upto page 2 and fell asleep.You do know you both are arguing about something that has no scientific fact and can never be proved until the day you die and then its to late to tell the other one they where wrong I am not saying i do not believe in god.I am just saying the only way to win the arguement is for one of you to die and i am sure even you will admit thats taking the right to be right to far Plus can one of you explain dinosaurs When i say god i mean i believe in a higher power maybe not a god but an outside influence Edited October 2, 2015 by stetonic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozalia Posted October 2, 2015 Author Share Posted October 2, 2015 So page 8.Well a read upto page 2 and fell asleep.You do know you both are arguing about something that has no scientific fact and can never be proved until the day you die and then its to late to tell the other one they where wrong I am not saying i do not believe in god.I am just saying the only way to win the arguement is for one of you to die and i am sure even you will admit thats taking the right to be right to far Plus can one of you explain dinosaurs When i say god i mean i believe in a higher power maybe not a god but an outside influence Shouldn't have stopped at page 2 then, the conversation shifts on page 3. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stetonic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Shouldn't have stopped at page 2 then, the conversation shifts on page 3. Well thanks for the extra info on the subject i will go back to page 3 and start again but my point will still stand at the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So page 8.Well a read upto page 2 and fell asleep.You do know you both are arguing about something that has no scientific fact and can never be proved until the day you die and then its to late to tell the other one they where wrong I am not saying i do not believe in god.I am just saying the only way to win the arguement is for one of you to die and i am sure even you will admit thats taking the right to be right to far Plus can one of you explain dinosaurs When i say god i mean i believe in a higher power maybe not a god but an outside influence Personally I have no problem with Dinosaurs, I know from my own experience that evolution takes place. My parents are both scientists(biochemists to be exact) so I know the reality of this stuff. So what that Dinosaurs don't appear in the bible, the bible isn't a scientific document. I believe it explains the reason why things happen but not how. Christianity is a religion with a lot of mystery and I am not going to have all the information until I meet my maker, for good or for bad! 2 Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stetonic Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I have always been a firm believer in that god/religion was created by man to control man.Everyone who has half a mind has questioned why they are here and where they came from and the easiest way to work that out in your mind is the presence of a higher power Don't get me wrong i do not judge anyones belief but killing in the name of any religion that is 1000's of years old or living your life to a text written by someone who could of just been a nut job seems like a waste of life to me I do believe in something i just dont know what he/she is called and there are many religions and you all can't be right 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Ap Ioan Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I wonder what Ibrahim makes of this interesting article from Private Eye? Still a man hears what he wants to hearAnd disregards the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Valko Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Just did a paper on the (translated) Qu'ran for history class, it had quite a bit of generalisations of non-Muslims. Also, my history teacher keeps trying to say that Muslims can't hate Christianity because they believe in Jesus, which is just plain stupid. [EDIT: Spelling Error.] Edited October 3, 2015 by Dimitri Valko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Aminu Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) Also, my history teacher keeps trying to say that Muslims can't hate Christianity because they believe in Jesus, which is just plan stupid. Well, you did say he is a Muslim. Edited October 3, 2015 by Vladimir Zhogin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Aminu Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 So much fun watching Al Jazeera. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitri Valko Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Well, you did say he is a Muslim. I said I think he's a Muslim. He's at least Arabic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilal the Great Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm glad I quit Islam. King Bilal the Great Mediocre The Average monarch of Billonesia Wikia page (if you're into roleplay things). We Tvtropes now. (down the rabbit hole!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadir Aminu Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I said I think he's a Muslim. He's at least Arabic. He said he was Italian. He does look Arabic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 (edited) If that was the case why would they leave in passages like John 10? It is awfully inconvenient and embarrassing when a great prophet pronounces himself God. John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.†John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us†This clearly indicates that the early church believed that Jesus is God in the flesh, the Hagia Sophia himself. If we were to read John 1:1 as you are suggesting it would read like this: "In the beginning was the God and the God was with God and the God was God" Which quite frankly is nonsense. Lets look at the verse again: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1) The fist word "God" used here in Greek text is "Theon" which means the "Supreme Lord". The second word "God" used here in Greek text is "Theos" which means a "created being" with great quality or a godly person. Much like in Exodus 7:1 "Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet†it was not saying that Moses was God, but god (small g). You have done your usual trick of trying to change the topic and make other people answer your questions, when they asked you a question first. Erm, I have not asked a single question in my entire response to you. Why you no answer? Are you self taught and thus have no legitimate basis for your believes, as appears to be the case with your knowledge on Christianity? What are you running from? Just answer the questions I asked earlier and you might actually gain a bit of respect. Don't get offended if I choose not to answer any personal questions Edited October 3, 2015 by Ibrahim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim (Banned) Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I wonder what Ibrahim makes of this interesting article from Private Eye? It's asking me to subscribe before I can read it. Yeah, not gonna happen lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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