Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) This Is in a way an old topic, however it is one that does continually come up. I do believe that the promotion of stem cell research is one that will benefit us. So why do people not like stem cell research? Well I will try to give you my educated statement on it. (Note If i miss something please correct me). Stem cells come from undifferentiated cells. What are undifferentiated cells? They are cells that have not begun to take their differentiated, or specific forms. Most undifferentiated cells are embryonic cells. This is where the debate starts. It is because they are embryo cells that people tend to deny the practical use of stem cell research and paint it as a detriment to society. Yes fetus cells are used for this, but sometimes stem cells dont always have to be embryonic. Some are partially differentiated cells that are simply only muscle but are not differentiated into the type of muscle yet or the type of organ. Some overlook this as well. Stem cells are proving to save lives. I believe scientists have either already grown a heart or are researching on this. So with that those needing a heart transplant will not have to wait for a tragic accident to occur before they receive that organ. Having a family member who has received a heart transplant and one that has received a lung transplant, it would have been nice to have these grown organs much sooner. One of them was painted to die in a month but was lucky enough to receive the organ they needed. There is so much promise with it and there are improvements, however there is still major opposition. What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe it is logical to continue research? is it inhumane to use embryonic cells? Do the risks outweigh the benefits? Edited March 1, 2015 by Magicboyd25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elsuper Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 This Is in a way an old topic, however it is one that does continually come up. I do believe that the promotion of stem cell research is one that will benefit us. So why do people not like stem cell research? Well I will try to give you my educated statement on it. (Note If i miss something please correct me). Stem cells come from undifferentiated cells. What are undifferentiated cells? They are sells that have not begun to take their differentiated, or specific forms. Most undifferentiated cells are embryonic cells. This is where the debate starts. It is because they are embryo cells that people tend to deny the practical use of stem cell research and paint it as a detriment to society. Yes fetus cells are used for this, but sometimes stem cells dont always have to be embryonic. Some are partially differentiated cells that are simply only muscle but are not differentiated into the type of muscle yet or the type of organ. Some overlook this as well. Stem cells are proving to save lives. I believe scientists have either already grown a heart or are researching on this. So with that those needing a heart transplant will not have to wait for a tragic accident to occur before they receive that organ. Having a family member who has received a heart transplant and one that has received a lung transplant, it would have been nice to have these grown organs much sooner. One of them was painted to die in a month but was lucky enough to receive the organ they needed. There is so much promise with it and there are improvements, however there is still major opposition. What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe it is logical to continue research? is it inhumane to use embryonic cells? Do the risks outweigh the benefits? As a born-again Christian who has come to question my previous pro-choice stance, I still don't see any greater problem with conducting research on an aborted fetus than I do with conducting research on an adult corpse. The problem for me lies with the termination of life, not with what comes afterwards. Although if the embryos were being created for the sole purpose of harvesting, I think I'd have a problem with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Brother Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Do you believe it is logical to continue research? is it inhumane to use embryonic cells? Do the risks outweigh the benefits? Yes, no, yes. I do not consider embryos or.. foetuses to be "living", or of any particular value by themselves, so if scientists find value in them and can do useful things with them, let them. It's much easier to make another fetus than it is to make a heart or a set of lungs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Edited March 1, 2015 by Six of Ten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 As a born-again Christian who has come to question my previous pro-choice stance, I still don't see any greater problem with conducting research on an aborted fetus than I do with conducting research on an adult corpse. The problem for me lies with the termination of life, not with what comes afterwards. Although if the embryos were being created for the sole purpose of harvesting, I think I'd have a problem with that. Adult corpses died on their own, Fetuses were murdered in a sickening way resembling how animals are killed in a slaughterhouse and since the primary way of killing a fetus is either burning it to death with concentrated saline or alcohol prior to abortion, you don't get many usable cells from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Huxley Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Stem Cell Research should continue, as it still is at its beginning stages of research. Stem Cells also can be taken from Pigs and other relatable Animals. Not only to save Human life, but to create proteins and fatty issue, which can help the Human Condition around the world. This is Earth, science has been created/discovered to help our lives, we cannot pretend that fetus cells are being used in Stem Cell research, but at what point do you say it's wrong? Religion plays a major role in this, and so does politics. But, we can not ignore these advances in science. This could be the key to a healthy Human Conditions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Stem Cell Research should continue, as it still is at its beginning stages of research. Stem Cells also can be taken from Pigs and other relatable Animals. Not only to save Human life, but to create proteins and fatty issue, which can help the Human Condition around the world. This is Earth, science has been created/discovered to help our lives, we cannot pretend that fetus cells are being used in Stem Cell research, but at what point do you say it's wrong? Religion plays a major role in this, and so does politics. But, we can not ignore these advances in science. This could be the key to a healthy Human Conditions. it depends on what side of the !@#$ the child is on really, the way I see it, and it bothers me, the same children that you love, that you tuck in bed at night, the same children you'd give your life to defend, you'd have no qualms about murdering if they were still inside the uterus. the way in which they're "Harvested" or murdered isn't humane at all, they're burned alive with strong saline solutions, they're hacked to pieces while still awake. and sucked out with a vacuum. oh but it's not a clean clinical procedure that the mother is immune from, alot of women suffer post partum depression, some even commit suicide or end up on drugs. not to mention in alot of cases the fathers leave them. Abortion does more than remove some cells, it destroys families. sure a few are unaffected, but in the majority of cases, it is devastating to everyone. I am very against using embryonic stem cells on moral grounds. I'm against it for the same reasons vegans are vegan. You're convinced Embryos and fetuses aren't human, they're still a being, when is the suffering of one being to benefit another, when is that ever right? Edited March 1, 2015 by Six of Ten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) I'm not completely against abortion, so as long as it is legal, there should be something to put the fetuses to use. It's much better than to throw them away, or whatever the clinics currently do with them. You have a perfectly good specimen that isn't alive to find cures to things, so where's the argument? Just because you think it's wrong for them to be used in that way, it's not a good enough reason. If you really don't want stem cell research, go after abortion, not the research themselves. You're angry after the wrong people. tl;dr If a fetus can help a man walk again, I don't see why not Edited March 1, 2015 by kimjongil Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 it depends on what side of the !@#$ the child is on really, the way I see it, and it bothers me, the same children that you love, that you tuck in bed at night, the same children you'd give your life to defend, you'd have no qualms about murdering if they were still inside the uterus. the way in which they're "Harvested" or murdered isn't humane at all, they're burned alive with strong saline solutions, they're hacked to pieces while still awake. and sucked out with a vacuum. oh but it's not a clean clinical procedure that the mother is immune from, alot of women suffer post partum depression, some even commit suicide or end up on drugs. not to mention in alot of cases the fathers leave them. Abortion does more than remove some cells, it destroys families. sure a few are unaffected, but in the majority of cases, it is devastating to everyone. I am very against using embryonic stem cells on moral grounds. I'm against it for the same reasons vegans are vegan. You're convinced Embryos and fetuses aren't human, they're still a being, when is the suffering of one being to benefit another, when is that ever right? If a mom were to abort her child, she wouldn't want to tuck them in at night if she couldn't, and would be more likely to neglect or beat her child than love them. The researchers aren't the ones doing the killings, they just seize the opportunity by using the already murdered fetus by helping the needs of the living. Who knows, maybe their research could help save a loved on in your future. The women who are aborting their kids turn to drugs because they just happen to be the same people who accidentally have illegitimate children before they could even marry. Once again, you're after the wrong people. Go after abortion, not the people trying to help Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I'm not completely against abortion, so as long as it is legal, there should be something to put the fetuses to use. It's much better than to throw them away, or whatever the clinics currently do with them. You have a perfectly good specimen that isn't alive to find cures to things, so where's the argument? Just because you think it's wrong for them to be used in that way, it's not a good enough reason. If you really don't want stem cell research, go after abortion, not the research themselves. You're angry after the wrong people. tl;dr If a fetus can help a man walk again, I don't see why dont It's wrong for them to be killed in the first place. ok I'll use an example you can understand. a caterpillar isn't a butterfly yet, but it will become one. Caterpillar is the fetal stage in development of a butterfly. it's still a conscious being, not as intelligent as a butterfly but still conscious. the debate started really when they invented ultra sound, and could see that fetuses scream, they show fear, they try and avoid the instruments that are used in abortion by moving away, They fight, they scream until they're torn apart and removed. it's sad and disturbing watching it. what's more disturbing is how we can do it with such apathy but we defend them same children after they're born. a fetus is a human being that's in the same stage of development as a caterpillar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 it depends on what side of the !@#$ the child is on really, the way I see it, and it bothers me, the same children that you love, that you tuck in bed at night, the same children you'd give your life to defend, you'd have no qualms about murdering if they were still inside the uterus. the way in which they're "Harvested" or murdered isn't humane at all, they're burned alive with strong saline solutions, they're hacked to pieces while still awake. and sucked out with a vacuum. oh but it's not a clean clinical procedure that the mother is immune from, alot of women suffer post partum depression, some even commit suicide or end up on drugs. not to mention in alot of cases the fathers leave them. Abortion does more than remove some cells, it destroys families. sure a few are unaffected, but in the majority of cases, it is devastating to everyone. I am very against using embryonic stem cells on moral grounds. I'm against it for the same reasons vegans are vegan. You're convinced Embryos and fetuses aren't human, they're still a being, when is the suffering of one being to benefit another, when is that ever right? but sometimes stem cells dont always have to be embryonic. Some are partially differentiated cells that are simply only muscle but are not differentiated into the type of muscle yet or the type of organ. Some overlook this as well. I think you overlooked this Haha i knew I would be able to call it right off. Not all stem cells are undifferentiated. There are other abilities to get stem cells without having to take fetus cells. Normally the only aborted cells that work are those before there is major growth of the fetus iirc. It is not in the later stages but earlier, because by the later stages most cells are differentiated enough. Now back to the other stem cell stuff: So most people go after stem cells because of the abortion tag attached to it. Well they COMPLETELY overlook the other partially differentiated cells that save many lives every week. Heck people hate stem cells and want them to stop being grown. Well you want a skin graft if you get a major burn? Well those are partially differentiated cells, not simple undifferentiated ones. That is just an example. Hope this helps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 It's wrong for them to be killed in the first place. ok I'll use an example you can understand. a caterpillar isn't a butterfly yet, but it will become one. Caterpillar is the fetal stage in development of a butterfly. it's still a conscious being, not as intelligent as a butterfly but still conscious. the debate started really when they invented ultra sound, and could see that fetuses scream, they show fear, they try and avoid the instruments that are used in abortion by moving away, They fight, they scream until they're torn apart and removed. it's sad and disturbing watching it. what's more disturbing is how we can do it with such apathy but we defend them same children after they're born. a fetus is a human being that's in the same stage of development as a caterpillar. Then be anti abortion. I'm sure you are, but when the child is already gone, there is no where else it can go. Do you deny that? Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Uh guys Please discuss stem cells and not abortion. Cmon people lol I mean they have a bit to do with eachother but it just derails a discussion to go at each other like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Then be anti abortion. I'm sure you are, but when the child is already gone, there is no where else it can go. Do you deny that? Give it some dignity, atleast give it a decent funeral before you harvest it. It's still a human being. hell, when someone donates their body to science, they get a funeral first. infant human beings that are aborted get thrown out like garbage. also before you abort it give it the same courtesy we give murderers, anesthetize it, make it so it can't feel pain. than research away. but afford the child the same dignity every human being deserves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Uh guys Please discuss stem cells and not abortion. Cmon people lol I mean they have a bit to do with eachother but it just derails a discussion to go at each other like that. I wasn't trying to, but all of the reasons Six stated were falsely accused towards stem cell research, and sounded like he was talking about abortion instead. Try to replace "stem cell research" with "abortion" in his comments. You'll see where i'm coming from Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 I wasn't trying to, but all of the reasons Six stated were falsely accused towards stem cell research, and sounded like he was talking about abortion instead. Try to replace "stem cell research" with "abortion" in his comments. You'll see where i'm coming from You get your stem cells as a result of abortion so the 2 are inexorably tied to eachother sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Give it some dignity, atleast give it a decent funeral before you harvest it. It's still a human being. hell, when someone donates their body to science, they get a funeral first. infant human beings that are aborted get thrown out like garbage. also before you abort it give it the same courtesy we give murderers, anesthetize it, make it so it can't feel pain. than research away. but afford the child the same dignity every human being deserves. That actually sounds like a good idea. I don't see why people dont compromise by doing what you just said Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Give it some dignity, atleast give it a decent funeral before you harvest it. It's still a human being. hell, when someone donates their body to science, they get a funeral first. infant human beings that are aborted get thrown out like garbage. also before you abort it give it the same courtesy we give murderers, anesthetize it, make it so it can't feel pain. than research away. but afford the child the same dignity every human being deserves. You forgot to read my post lol Most stem cells taken from an aborted fetus are not of a later stage abortion. They are usually very very early stages as that is where the most stem cells will be found. So honestly it is a lump of cells at that point and not even a human. Sometimes if it is closer to taking the shape of the early stages of a human it is not even in the stage of major growth get. So read up please man You get your stem cells as a result of abortion so the 2 are inexorably tied to eachother sorry. I said read up. You are clearly highly uneducated on the matter. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You get your stem cells as a result of abortion so the 2 are inexorably tied to eachother sorry. Yeah, I know, but Magic didn't wanna talk about abortion. I don't see how you can bring up stem cell research without bringing up abortion either Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 Yeah, I know, but Magic didn't wanna talk about abortion. I don't see how you can bring up stem cell research without bringing up abortion either Well you could bring it up but you dont have to go into a huge debate centered around abortion (aimed not at you). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You forgot to read my post lol Most stem cells taken from an aborted fetus are not of a later stage abortion. They are usually very very early stages as that is where the most stem cells will be found. So honestly it is a lump of cells at that point and not even a human. Sometimes if it is closer to taking the shape of the early stages of a human it is not even in the stage of major growth get. So read up please man I said read up. You are clearly highly uneducated on the matter. lol Where did you get your info on all of this, the internet? I'm sure you have a PhD concerning this matter yourself Please don't slander other members. You can argue, but sh*tposting gets threads like these locked Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Well you could bring it up but you dont have to go into a huge debate centered around abortion (aimed not at you). I think that the only counter arguments for stem cell research that I hear scream abortion, and nothing else, so there isn't anything bad to say about the research when you aren't talking about abortion. It's like asking the defense in a case to prove themselves innocent without talking about the murder itself Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six of Ten Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 You forgot to read my post lol Most stem cells taken from an aborted fetus are not of a later stage abortion. They are usually very very early stages as that is where the most stem cells will be found. So honestly it is a lump of cells at that point and not even a human. Sometimes if it is closer to taking the shape of the early stages of a human it is not even in the stage of major growth get. So read up please man I said read up. You are clearly highly uneducated on the matter. lol Magicboy, would it be legal to abort that fetus, throw it on a grill and eat it? why not? RIGHT because it is HUMAN FLESH! Where does Human flesh come from? HUMAN BEINGS! so it's safe to say you're harvesting a human being. is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Jong-Il Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Magicboy, would it be legal to abort that fetus, throw it on a grill and eat it? why not? RIGHT because it is HUMAN FLESH! Where does Human flesh come from? HUMAN BEINGS! so it's safe to say you're harvesting a human being. is it not? It wouldn't be legal because that's not the reason it was killed. The fetus in concern is already gone, so the debate is what we are going to do with it Lets be adults and keep it clean Edited March 1, 2015 by kimjongil Quote The many forms of proof regarding Kastor's sexuality: - Kastor: I already came out the closet. - MaIone: I'm gay * MaIone is now known as Kastor - Henri: i'm a !@#$it Skable: the !@#$ is a codo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magicboyd25 Posted March 1, 2015 Author Share Posted March 1, 2015 (edited) Where did you get your info on all of this, the internet? I'm sure you have a PhD concerning this matter yourself Please don't slander other members. You can argue, but sh*tposting gets threads like these locked No I happen to be part of a university biological research program so I think I know a bit about it myself I apologize for getting heated. One of our professors died a few years ago because they didnt get an organ to him soon enough that stem cells could have saved him with if the research had been supported more and organs had been ready for use. I think that the only counter arguments for stem cell research that I hear scream abortion, and nothing else, so there isn't anything bad to say about the research when you aren't talking about abortion. It's like asking the defense in a case to prove themselves innocent without talking about the murder itself True that does seem logical. Magicboy, would it be legal to abort that fetus, throw it on a grill and eat it? why not? RIGHT because it is HUMAN FLESH! Where does Human flesh come from? HUMAN BEINGS! so it's safe to say you're harvesting a human being. is it not? First off its boyd thank you very much You make a good point honestly but I still think that it is one thing to (grill why did you say that lol now you are getting a bit strange ) and another to use something for research that saves a long living life. Human cells have been harvested in different forms before. By your logic giving blood and donating organs should not be permitted as that is "harvesting" another human being. Edited March 1, 2015 by Magicboyd25 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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