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Please add more "decisions" in P&W


Wreckpro
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One of the things that the advertisement for the game or one of the promises the game offers is "decisions" to run your country. Unfortunately though, this is not depth and the game doesn't really feel like a nation simulator, it feels more like a shallow game that you click buttons and wait to collect money. I remember when there was a time in which I found it very fun to complete the objectives and get money doing so. It was fun because there was an actual roleplay and goal aspect behind that that made you feel like you were actually running a country, but after that the game is mostly about chatting in an alliance on discord and playing the waiting game.

Some decisions that can be added include political decisions that will allow you interact more with your citizenry and make it feel like a nation simulator again. The "approval rating" mechanic that is currently used as a flavortext should be added into the game, giving you various buffs (if above 50 percent), and debuffs (if below 50 percent), depending on the political actions you take. The approval rating could be converted into something called "stability", which measures how content your people are with you. Doing temporary decisions like "improved worker conditions(leads to -5 percent money but say +0.1 percent stability per turn for 120 turns) ", or "increased worker pay" (+5 percent expenses but +0.1 percent stability per turn for 120 turns), and "promises of peace (+5 percent military upkeep +0.05 percent stability per turn for 120 turns) Alternatively, decisions like decreasing worker pay will do the opposite and having worse worker conditions will increase money and decrease stability. 

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Another cool thing that could be added is economic or even more political decisions. Economic decisions could include the type of economy, such as war economy, or civilian economy. War economy could give you an additional -30 percent military upkeep on top of imperialism and +10 percent manufacturing production, but also give you a -10 percent income debuff on money and a +10 percent infrastructure/land cost. Civilian economy could give you a -10 percent infrastructure/land cost, and +10 percent income, but a +30 percent military upkeep and +30 percent military cost to build.

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Like the current domestic policies, there should be a timer, of maybe 10 days or so in order to get switch the economies. Additional political decisions could include "party popularity", in which you can boost the amount of support for your party through election campaigns (if democratic), or by purging political opponents (if authoritarian). Conscription and manpower can also be added if possible, and it could be based on percentage of population (by default 1 percent), and increasing conscription laws increases amount of manpower but also decreases production by 10 percent each conscription law you one up. Every time a troop/tank/plane dies your manpower goes down from the manpower pool. 

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Anyways, I do not expect the last part to get added because there will require a bit of work for the additional "political decisions". However, adding the "stability" and war economy/civilian economy would make the game greatly more enjoyable so there are actual aspects to running your country, instead of just clicking the "buy" and "sell" button on trade or buying resource.

So what did you think about my idea? Please share what you think in the comments and thanks for reading!

 

 

Edited by Wreckpro
Edited because multiple of same pic
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Never played Cybernations, but the random event idea seems really cool! And tbh HOI4 is a hours long game that revolves around making your country strong and ready for war in a few years, whilst P&W is a more long term game with not as much mechanics. So why not implement some mechanics from HOI4 into the game to give it more flavor and actually make people manage their nation, instead of AFKing?

 

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55 minutes ago, Nukey6 said:

I personally prefer PnW more as a community based game.

Then go to Nation States 😂, that is 100% community. This doesnt affect community based gameplay as it has no effect on the politics (Doesn't force to people to go to war), infact we've already updates to affect politics and war (roll credits) such as treasures, which were largely unsuccesful. It has also shown to be a success in CN.

What Wreckpro suggests doesnt devalue the community-orientation of the game in any way, it doesnt even affect it, it just makes policies and such matter which should matter in a nation sim. Government Positions in CN (Our Policies) and Events/Decisions have affects, and is a realistic mechanic. The goal of the game, ofcourse, is not to be completely realistic (as that would suck!) but to simulate a country. A fundamental part of being a country is government positions, policy changes, and governmental decisions to unforseen events, like the Coronavirus Pandemic IRL.

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10 minutes ago, LifePls said:

You have 1 decision. Politics or war. 
 

Also see: https://politicsandwar.com/index.php?id=129 which seems to be an unimplemented version of your idea. 

Perks are different than decisions, more like technology from CN without dumb tech selling.

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Hot take: RNG in a PvP strategy game is dumb. The amount of salt over bad rolls in battles is legitimately valid, wars should be decided by player strategy not a code function of suspect reliability. Scaling that up to global effects such as random zombie apocalypses is not a recipe for success. If you give events enough of an effect to matter they can and will skew stuff such as global wars. And thats not adding decision making, its taking away player agency in their own fates. If events are not strong enough to have real effects they are reduced flavor text, and there is much better use of dev time at that point.

 

That being said I do agree the game needs more actual decision making. But that decision making needs to be in core gameplay, not rng flavor text. Adding in stuff like alternate city build paths, additional war options, other things that the players drive and cause.

From there going back the OP. Approval rating was supposed to have effects originally, but in practice the formula driving it is unstable to say the least and prone to massive runaways in both directions. And further it would have skewed the meta towards undesirable actions like war dodging or dogpiling. There has been talk of trying again but its low priority compared to stuff like making beige be not dumb. When the times comes though it'll likely be a new value as supposed to messing with the old one.

Which leads us into the 'RP' features. To a certain extent in a political sim, player agency includes being able to adopt and support a persona and identify. The RP stuff is an extension of that need and need to remain divorced from direct mechanical effects. This is why stuff like war policy and domestic policy are in their own things neutral to the RP aspect. If you tack on bonuses etc to rp aspects, they cease being useable for RP at all. And that would be a removal of player agency. That is not say decision tree bonuses are bad, but they should be their own selections.

 

 

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On 4/28/2021 at 11:16 PM, Dr Rush said:

into the 'RP' features. To a certain extent in a political sim, player agency includes being able to adopt and support a persona and identify. The RP stuff is an extension of that need and need to remain divorced from direct mechanical effects. This is why stuff like war policy and domestic policy are in their own things neutral to the RP aspect. If you tack on bonuses etc to rp aspects, they cease being useable for RP at all. And that would be a removal of player agency. That is not say decision tree bonuses are bad, but they should be their own selections.

I think this is important.

When you add bonuses to certain rp things, smart people will strategize around them.
And alliances will probably force / strongly recommend using certain "rp elements" because they are better.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2021 at 6:37 PM, Wreckpro said:

Never played Cybernations, but the random event idea seems really cool! 

 

Editing this as it mentions a superior nationsim game.  I don't want to go the way of Dede. 

 

Edited by Aglet Green
Afraid that Alex is thin-skinned.
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s
 

1 hour ago, Aglet Green said:

Knock yourself out:   http://www.cybernations.net/default.asp?Referrer=Aglet Green

You can do a billion more things with your country than you can in P&W-- in fact, it is quite easy to gimp your country and drive it into the toilet and into debt, forever unable to pay your bills-- but at the end of the day, you're still just picking from choices given to you by the game designer.  The game is better balanced than P&W, because P&W has an inherent flaw: as the years pass, older nations will always have more cities than younger nations, (and thus a bigger military) but in C&W young nations can engage in technology trading, foreign affairs, foreign aid and resource trading on an equal footing with anyone-- and are thus as viable on day 1 as any other nation.  

 

This is a blatant lie. PnW has more customization, more mechanics, and more of everything that CN does not. PnW is also actively developed whereas Kevin hasnt developed his game since 2009. There is a good reason as to why CN has 2k players acttive montly in contrast to PnWs 19k. in CN you cant even have your own flag, PnW allows a flag, a customizable nation description where you can insert images and the such, a factbook containing all the information your nation could possible have, currency image, a baseball team. CN is better balanced than PnW?, are you being serious, cities are much more well balanced then tech and infrastructure alone is. You know how long it can take to reach the top nation in regardance to tech only, PRESUMING that they always have sellers, automatically have DRA, and started the game by buying tech immediately? 9.4 years, presuming the current top nations arent buying anything. You talk about Tech Trade and Foreign Aid Slots like they're good things, quit your BS, tech trading is a mechanic that has drove people out of the game, and is a bad mechanic which will never ever let a new player catchup. Foreign Aid slots are just horrible, you can move all your liquid cash and rss in PnW as much as you'd like, in CN you can move around 54 million max per 10 days. PnW has a resource market, a feature that CN lacks, and it makes PnW better with a dynamic economy. "on an equal footing with anyone" what does this mean? No you arent, there are nations a decade and a half older than you. Bigger nations have a bigger military than smaller nations in CN as well, as they should, they are bigger for a reason. "Young nations can engage in foreign affairs" you mean through your Alliance? PnW AAs literally also have diplomats, its the same, what are you on.

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/28/2021 at 11:16 PM, Dr Rush said:

Hot take: RNG in a PvP strategy game is dumb. The amount of salt over bad rolls in battles is legitimately valid, wars should be decided by player strategy not a code function of suspect reliability. Scaling that up to global effects such as random zombie apocalypses is not a recipe for success. If you give events enough of an effect to matter they can and will skew stuff such as global wars. And thats not adding decision making, its taking away player agency in their own fates. If events are not strong enough to have real effects they are reduced flavor text, and there is much better use of dev time at that point.

 

That being said I do agree the game needs more actual decision making. But that decision making needs to be in core gameplay, not rng flavor text. Adding in stuff like alternate city build paths, additional war options, other things that the players drive and cause.

From there going back the OP. Approval rating was supposed to have effects originally, but in practice the formula driving it is unstable to say the least and prone to massive runaways in both directions. And further it would have skewed the meta towards undesirable actions like war dodging or dogpiling. There has been talk of trying again but its low priority compared to stuff like making beige be not dumb. When the times comes though it'll likely be a new value as supposed to messing with the old one.

Which leads us into the 'RP' features. To a certain extent in a political sim, player agency includes being able to adopt and support a persona and identify. The RP stuff is an extension of that need and need to remain divorced from direct mechanical effects. This is why stuff like war policy and domestic policy are in their own things neutral to the RP aspect. If you tack on bonuses etc to rp aspects, they cease being useable for RP at all. And that would be a removal of player agency. That is not say decision tree bonuses are bad, but they should be their own selections.

Def agree, i don't want RNG determining anything more than it already does.

Maybe the way to solve this is to have the events be systemic, or for example, based on some factor the player, such as city count, pollution/crime/disease levels, starvation, or maybe war status (using a nuclear weapon, declaring/loosing an offensive war, winning a defensive war)

 

Player Action: Winning a defensive war

Event: Victory Parade in Moscow Celebrating Victory of Motherland!!!

Text: blah blah blah

Effect: Approval Rating increases X%, Military upkeep decreases X%, ect.....

 

Player Action: Lets Pollution increase to XXX

Event: Environmentalists Protest, Workers Strike in Factories!

Text: blah blah blah

Cost: Approval Rating decreases X%, Manufacturing output decreases X%, ect.....

 

These aren't really decisions, as much as they are in-game results to player actions. Maybe there can be choices, like "Give Promises for Population Reduction. Pay $X, build XX" or "Send in the Army to put down the riots. Effects: XXX"

 

But we need to address the fact, that rn, you can literally drive ur people to brink of extinction, without any negative repercussion from the populace, other than their reduced output cause they are eating dirt. Also as people said before, Approval Rating needs to be something real. 

 

I like the HOI4 Conscription and Econ levels, they would add some dynamics to the game, but prob for only 1-3 months, before the CS majors run their codes and figure out the formulas, and optimize everything. 

 

Overall i do agree PnW isnt a nation-simulator as much as it is a Alliance simulator, your are just commanding an army regiment during globals, and merely feeding in numbers for econ bots. 

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