Stock Market

[Shellhound]

I know someone suggested this in another thread but 1. I can't be arsed to look for it 2. I think it deserves a thread of its own. I love the idea of implementing a stock market, I know someone suggested that there be a system similar to PT's where your country produces companies or something like that (don't remember the exact details). What if we had it where you can invest in resources? Stock prices could be based on a formula of the average price of resources bought and the amount of resources bought and could be updated every day. Players sense that a war's starting? Invest in steel, munitions, etc. Looks like a war's about to die off? Start selling those stocks now. Really the main things that would be focused on is the war time resources for fairly obvious reasons, those are the main resources in the game. It could be beneficial to new players to start off small with stocks that are a bit more stable however, similar to the real stock market. Play safe and build up over time, play it a little bit riskier and you might make a load of money or lose quite a bit.

[SoS]

Half of the necessary structure for this is already in place. The average price is already tracked.

 

The other part would be creating a supply of shares. And determining where/who the shares would be sold from. Probably a game bank would sell the initial shares. You could buy/sell shares with other nations or the bank.

 

Or, shares could be issued to each nation, either distributed equally or based on GDP or something. Then nations could buy or sell shares on the market.

[Shellhound]

Personally I think going with the bank would be best, if you distribute them equally bigger nations will say it's no fair and if you distribute them based on GDP smaller nations will say it's no fair and both kind of have valid points.

 

But yeah, that was my main thing I liked about the idea is that just about everything needed to make it is already there. Make a few adjustments, add a few things and it's done. No major overhaul or anything, just add it to the existing structure.

[SoS]

I agree. I think the thing about being bank issued is dividends should be paid to shareholders. A very small percentage. That would encourage value in the stocks.

[Jean Parisot]

What's cool about the idea is that there is really no guaranteed growth, the size of economies and production will all be driven by the nation in the game and their needs making for an interesting ride for shareholders. Plus it'll force people to start playing this game more like and economy sim instead of a nation sim. 

 

Having said that I think the idea needs to be fleshed out a bit more, the stock type of thing shares many parallels with resource production already in game, but it could be pretty cool 

[Grillick]

This is a nearly unworkable idea in the context of the mechanics of this game.

 

Stock certificates represent the partial ownership of independent enterprises, which do not exist in this game. 

 

If you want to speculate in the value of resources, buy or sell the resources.

 

If you want to create a liquid market based on the predicted value of resources in the future, you first need to create a mechanic for buying and selling futures contracts. Futures contracts are not at all like stock certificates, though they are both traded on markets. It might be a worthwhile goal for Sheepy to develop a mechanic by which nations can buy and sell commodity futures contracts, but that would be a major undertaking on its own, and if its only purpose is to allow for the creation of a market for trading these futures contracts, it would probably not be worth the effort.

 

Any "stock market" system that attempts to simply abstract the concept of a stock market without actually implementing the underlying mechanics of the market is simply a way of complicating the game without adding any real value.

[George W. Bush]

What's cool about the idea is that there is really no guaranteed growth, the size of economies and production will all be driven by the nation in the game and their needs making for an interesting ride for shareholders. Plus it'll force people to start playing this game more like and economy sim instead of a nation sim. 

 

Having said that I think the idea needs to be fleshed out a bit more, the stock type of thing shares many parallels with resource production already in game, but it could be pretty cool 

I second this, though I think the economy needs to be fleshed out a bit more.

[Sailor Jerry]

 If you want to speculate in the value of resources, buy or sell the resources.

 

 

I was thinking about doing this myself.  Right now Steel is around $1000 or so/unit.....I was thinking of getting about 100 units and then resell them once the market for them went up.....but then I realized, I'd be needing to use that steel for improvements anyway, so selling that 100 at the higher price would just mean I'd have to rebuy again anyway, probably at that higher price....so, not so much a good idea....for now anyway.

[Vincent]

resources speculation is risky, there are some who will spoilt it for u.

 

lets say u buy 100 at 1000 and plan to sell it at 1900  or etc....and Murphy law will surely apply itself here....someone  will appear out of no where and offer to sell 10 units at 1800 when u made an offer to sell 100 unit at 1900

Edited August 19, 2014 by vincentsum8

[SoS]

This is a nearly unworkable idea in the context of the mechanics of this game.

 

Stock certificates represent the partial ownership of independent enterprises, which do not exist in this game.

 

If you want to speculate in the value of resources, buy or sell the resources.

 

If you want to create a liquid market based on the predicted value of resources in the future, you first need to create a mechanic for buying and selling futures contracts. Futures contracts are not at all like stock certificates, though they are both traded on markets. It might be a worthwhile goal for Sheepy to develop a mechanic by which nations can buy and sell commodity futures contracts, but that would be a major undertaking on its own, and if its only purpose is to allow for the creation of a market for trading these futures contracts, it would probably not be worth the effort.

 

Any "stock market" system that attempts to simply abstract the concept of a stock market without actually implementing the underlying mechanics of the market is simply a way of complicating the game without adding any real value.

You misunderstand money entirely! You can't trade in an item that possesses utility, otherwise the poor will use the item and ruin everything

 

I can't imagine what we propose being as difficult as you say. The shares would be an additional resource. They would be generated by only a special nation created by Sheepy. No one could consume this special resource. Thus, they are very distinct from the trade of resources every nation can produce. I suppose what I'm suggesting is akin to stock options, in the fact that it isn't direct ownership in a corporation.

 

Resources futures would be quite easy for anyone to deal in. Simply agree to deliver resources (in the future) for a given price. I'd do it, but no one takes anyone at their word around here. So, I guess if you could create a system for delayed delivery, that would be nice.

 

The "underlying mechanics of the stock market" is nothing more than a bunch of fools making guesses. Trust me on that as I am a long time day trader (fool making guesses).

Edited August 19, 2014 by SoS

[Grillick]

The "underlying mechanics of the stock market" is nothing more than a bunch of fools making guesses. Trust me on that as I am a long time day trader (fool making guesses).

Day-trading has nothing to do with the underlying mechanics of the stock market. It is merely a rent-seeking activity that capitalizes on the inherent inefficiencies if coordinating worldwide communications of stock interest.

 

The underlying mechanics of the stock market are what makes men like Warren Buffet orders of magnitude more wealthy than the wealthiest day-trader.

[SoS]

Day-trading has nothing to do with the underlying mechanics of the stock market. It is merely a rent-seeking activity that capitalizes on the inherent inefficiencies if coordinating worldwide communications of stock interest.

 

The underlying mechanics of the stock market are what makes men like Warren Buffet orders of magnitude more wealthy than the wealthiest day-trader.

First off, we're talking about a pretty simple game here. Y'all can add a simple feature to it or not - whatevs. I don't understand why all of a sudden there needs to be some underlying structure for a feature...like how the hell do mines operate without a machinery, tool, chemical, transportation, etc., etc., etc. Industries?

 

Secondly, ahh forget it.

[Alex]

I don't really understand the concept. You buy shares based on the price of resources? Why not just buy the resources and sell them when the prices get higher, instead of shares?

[SoS]

1. The shares cannot be consumed in any way or spent on anything.

 

2. The shares wouldn't necessarily mirror resource prices.

 

3. The shareholders would receive a dividend of a small percentage of either the share value or the resource value (IMO, resource value would best mitigate abuse of the stock system).

 

4. The shares may be traded between nations on the free market.

[Alex]

1. The shares cannot be consumed in any way or spent on anything.

 

2. The shares wouldn't necessarily mirror resource prices.

 

3. The shareholders would receive a dividend of a small percentage of either the share value or the resource value (IMO, resource value would best mitigate abuse of the stock system).

 

4. The shares may be traded between nations on the free market.

 

If it's not mirroring resource prices, what would it mirror? And other than not being consumable, what makes it different than a resource, aside from the fact it gives you dividends?

[SoS]

I mean the shares can be initially sold at a percentage of the price of resources. Their value (per the bank) would rise and fall at the same rate as the resource, but they wouldn't necessarily be the same price as the resource.

 

That it is not consumable is the main point. It is an actual investment rather than something to use or flip. I envision it becoming a race to acquire the most shares, because they add to income.

[mshelton4]

Wouldn't it just be possible, as people have done in the past, to manipulate the trade market in order to boost/lower the value of a stock based on a resource?

[SoS]

Yeah but, as in the past, it would be short lived and return to the trend.

 

That's why I think it's important to base any dividend on the resource, not on the share price.

 

And to further discourage manipulation and to simplify the system, the shares can track the combined average of all resources. That way, we make one price to deal with and it evens out spikes in individual resources.

[Grillick]

I don't see what this adds to the game.

[SoS]

It would add a lot to the economic side.

[Grillick]

That's not an answer at all.

 

What you're proposing creates another source of revenue, but there's no mechanism for increasing the number of shares available that makes any sense, so there's hardly any incentive at all to ever sell the shares, since they cost nothing to maintain and will only go up in value as the number of nations increases.

 

This proposal simply injects money into the economy without actually adding anything to the game.

[SoS]

I thought I had answered it well enough earlier. It would add a unique resource to the game. A additional goal and avenue for growth, speculation, and competition.

 

The number of shares could be increased by the bank. In fact, the uncertainty of future supply adds to the speculative nature of buying and holding shares.

[Alex]

I think Grillick had a good point - What's the point of ever selling the shares?

[Marco Polo]

I know someone suggested this in another thread but 1. I can't be arsed to look for it 2. I think it deserves a thread of its own. I love the idea of implementing a stock market, I know someone suggested that there be a system similar to PT's where your country produces companies or something like that (don't remember the exact details). What if we had it where you can invest in resources? Stock prices could be based on a formula of the average price of resources bought and the amount of resources bought and could be updated every day. Players sense that a war's starting? Invest in steel, munitions, etc. Looks like a war's about to die off? Start selling those stocks now. Really the main things that would be focused on is the war time resources for fairly obvious reasons, those are the main resources in the game. It could be beneficial to new players to start off small with stocks that are a bit more stable however, similar to the real stock market. Play safe and build up over time, play it a little bit riskier and you might make a load of money or lose quite a bit.

 

 

I just came after asking sheepy about more tutorials and cannot find it on first sight and thanks for bringing it back up shellhound. IMO sheepy, I believe it would add more dynamics to the game dont ask how, im creatively exhausted as I have many things on my mind now.

[SoS]

I think Grillick had a good point - What's the point of ever selling the shares?

A quick, large profit instead of a tiny trickle of dividends.