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Tell me how Communism is bad


Holton
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...so you're saying people have to put up with others saying, "X might work.  You have to put up with it until you prove that it doesn't," instead of others showing why X does work. Yes. It's not actually possible to use psychic powers to know if something works or not. It has to be tried legitimately to determine that.

 

 

UBI? Basic income? I support that myself and if you do too then wow, good job on making that look bad. Don't worry, Roz, you look just as terrible on your own.

 

There is a difference between a terrorist and a criminal. Criminals don't make hardline politics rise up and people aren't bloody idiots like you think. The media would not report on "moderates" being scum, they'd hail them as heroes, and look how many knew full well even from the start they were scum. Your talk of "just don't talk about it so no one knows" is a purely stupid and insulting idea. No, it's an effective way to save many more lives than the unbelievable rare and unlikeliness of terrorism ever affecting someone. If you remove their politics from the attack they remain criminals and we already deal well enough with those with out glamorizing the people committing the acts. Rob them of their political value, use all the extra money to work on cancer, or heart disease, or automobile safety and actually end up helping fewer people die every day. If we'd captured Osama and put him up in the Federal Detention Center in New York until his trial and then dumped him into ADX Florence or Terra Haute (depending on sentence) he can rot away suffering for years.

 

 

LOL, Milton, terrorist attacks aren't the problem, people reporting on and talking about terrorism is. Yes, actually. Just like glamorizing the name of a mass shooter is going to make it more likely for other potential mass shooters to choose to attack since it'll make them infamous. Remove the media pseudo-celebrity and treat them as common criminals since they committed crimes we already have laws prohibiting and you remove a lot of the positivity associated with their actions.

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Cool, at least you admit you're terrible. 

 

Lovely. A media blackout and a government not doing anything towards terrorist attacks. That won't rile people up more and get them to hate minorities more or anything. Stop. The stuff you are talking about isn't bold, it ain't smart, it ain't any such thing. It is simply cowardly.

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Cool, at least you admit you're terrible. Oh, I think you have that market sewn up.

 

Lovely. A media blackout and a government not doing anything towards terrorist attacks. Not what I said, just avoiding glamoizing coverage for them to inspire other potential terrorists or mass shooters rather than just using the existing criminal codes that already cover whatever they'd do and saving a ton of money to be better used against things that are actaully killing tons of citizens everyday, unlike terrorism, which doesn't. That won't rile people up more and get them to hate minorities more or anything. Stop. The stuff you are talking about isn't bold, it ain't smart, it ain't any such thing. It is simply cowardly. That's your opinion, incorrect as it may be, you're allowed to display how wrong you are and seem to have no problem providing many examples per post.

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Yes. It's not actually possible to use psychic powers to know if something works or not. It has to be tried legitimately to determine that.

 

That's not what I said.  You're ignoring the difference between people and others.

 

"...so you're saying people have to put up with others saying, "X might work.  You have to put up with it until you prove that it doesn't," instead of others showing why X does work. "

 

The point here is you're telling me some people are entitled to waste other people's time, energy, and attention just to satisfy the curiosity of their experiments instead of people being allowed to carry on with their own experiments in life. 

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So you have a plan on preventing the news from getting out or something?Or are you just going to do nothing about terror attacks?If you haven't noticed the latter doesn't work.At all.

I admit that nations should work to cut the oxygen of publicity which terrorists so desperately require however a government doing absolutely nothing about terror will only give rise to many problems.As long as the terror attacks happen then there will be problems.

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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That's not what I said.  You're ignoring the difference between people and others.

 

"...so you're saying people have to put up with others saying, "X might work.  You have to put up with it until you prove that it doesn't," instead of others showing why X does work. "

 

The point here is you're telling me some people are entitled to waste other people's time, energy, and attention just to satisfy the curiosity of their experiments instead of people being allowed to carry on with their own experiments in life. No, I didn't say that. According to Marx this just happens when advanced capitalist economies reach a certain threshold. There's unlikely to be anyone actually forcing it. Marx's primary activity was as a scholar of capitalism. This is just his prediction of what happens when capitalism reaches a certain point about what comes next because capitalism can't last forever.

 

 

So you have a plan on preventing the news from getting out or something?Or are you just going to do nothing about terror attacks?If you haven't noticed the latter doesn't work.At all.

I admit that nations should work to cut the oxygen of publicity which terrorists so desperately require however a government doing absolutely nothing about terror will only give rise to many problems.As long as the terror attacks happen then there will be problems.  Yes, stop government interaction with the media until they stop promoting the perpetrators. Osama bin Laden (conspiracy to use weapons of mass destruction, perhaps with accessory to 3,000 counts of first degree murder and however many escaped in attempted murder. Rots like a criminal in ADX Florence for the rest of his life or is kept in Terre Heute if given a death sentence. I'm not sure how you don't understand that changing how terrorism is prosecuted is ignoring it. It's just using the existing criminal infrastructure already used by people who bomb others or mass killers without the terrorism motivation so why do we even need to promote their successes or failures and in doing so inspire more to follow their lead? No reason to do that and absent that, a lot of funding comes free which can then be used to fight the things that actually kill Americans on a day-to-day basis in the thousands instead of 50 deaths every six months or whatever.

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"Yes, stop government interaction with the media until they stop promoting the perpetrators. "

 

So we keep the public in the dark?

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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Basically a little more than we already are, yeah. Not like a blackout on coverage, but the kind of coverage any other murderer gets. Or an end of government sources for them until they decide to cooperate. Perfectly legal and constitutional. 

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Didnt read the thread because I like my brain cells, but heres a bit of history about some of the more successful anarchist movements and why they failed.

 

The free territory of Ukraine ran under a system called "platformism" for a short while after repelling the white army from the area from 1917 to 1921. Why did this fail? the red army took it over.

 

Basque, Catelonia and Aragon became syndicalist unions, and to be fair they did do a decent job and the standard of living had improved. However, everyone knows about the Spanish civil war and Franco got into power.

 

Then the Mexicans of Chiapas had their own revolution not so long ago, but they were quickly quelled by the Mexican government.

 

There is a common factor amongst all of these revolutions - without a state and organised structure, superior militaries of separate nations quickly move in to annex Terra Nullis, no mans land. Im very familiar with this term because im australian and this is how the english justified the colonisation of my country. Because there is no greater state, and the land is not held by a single entity, i.e, a government, it is considered the land for the first conqueror. Stateless communism, in this regard, does not allow itself any defense against an organised entity that seeks its destruction. Communism does not allow for land ownership, so all the land inside a commune is Terra Nullis. 

 

Sure, if there were an international revolution, and everyone went about their day as they did with capitalism, it would work. Any system under the right conditions would work, it is how well the system functions outside of favourable conditions that tests how credible the ideas are, and thats where we come at an issue with communism and any of its derivatives. It is free land. 

 

thats why it wouldnt work. There are a few reasons why its bad.

 

It doesnt account for those that consume more than they produce

 

it doesnt account for people who choose to stop producing because they can exploit the communal system and still consume

 

Law of scarcity (really big issue)

 

it removes the ability to specialise, which means special interests are not met, such as people with potentially curable diseases. 

 

im sure someone has already gone over inherent hierarchy/"humans are social animals" or whatever.

 

heres my biggest concern though. Marx himself said that socialism is the result of a planned economy, and capitalism is a result of a natural progression. If we took away every economic law and theory we know, our system would still represent something closer to capitalism compared to socialism. Having something that defies nature is something I am not a fan of.

 

I know this was a few pages ago, but I just wanted to congratulate Gabranth for being one of the only people on this thread for actually having at least 2 braincells to rub together. Throughout this thread people have made and defended against some very incorrect assertions and statements (many including a certain Union that forgot it's ideals long before it got off the ground), and you sir, have made some actual valid criticisms of Communism.

 

The point about communist societies being crushed within years of establishment due to Terra Nullis is something that comes quite a bit when I (a libertarian socialist) debate with some of my An-Com friends. (Also the issue of efficient infrastructure maintenance comes up alot as well.)

 

 

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 No, I didn't say that. According to Marx this just happens when advanced capitalist economies reach a certain threshold. There's unlikely to be anyone actually forcing it. Marx's primary activity was as a scholar of capitalism. This is just his prediction of what happens when capitalism reaches a certain point about what comes next because capitalism can't last forever.

 

Marx, capitalism, and communism aren't the point.

 

I was testing you to see if you're a logical, rational, and thoughtful person.

 

Instead, you just revealed you're no different from an anti-intellectual dogmatic conformist.  Karl Marx is your Jesus Christ.  Communism is your Christianity.  Das Kapital is your Bible.

 

Talking with you has only one difference from talking with the other - semantics.

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Marx, capitalism, and communism aren't the point.

 

I was testing you to see if you're a logical, rational, and thoughtful person.

 

Instead, you just revealed you're no different from an anti-intellectual dogmatic conformist.  Karl Marx is your Jesus Christ.  Communism is your Christianity.  Das Kapital is your Bible. Your testing isn't very good. I'm not a Marxist, I'm not a communist, I can't remember the last time I actually read Das Kapital. My education is a private issue, but I would guess it exceeds yours in this area.

 

Talking with you has only one difference from talking with the other - semantics.

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Kek

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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I'm seriously convinced this guy has a limited attention span.  He's only responding to what's right in front of him instead of remembering the train of thought of how we got here.

 

 

The point here is you're telling me...

 

 

No, I didn't say that. According to Marx...

 

 

 

 

Your testing isn't very good. I'm not a Marxist...

 

If you're not a Marxist, you shouldn't be making an appeal to Marx to prove the logic behind your ideas.  

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I'm seriously convinced this guy has a limited attention span.  He's only responding to what's right in front of him instead of remembering the train of thought of how we got here.

 

If you're not a Marxist, you shouldn't be making an appeal to Marx to prove the logic behind your ideas.  

 

Your assertion is correct. Milton only has the power to remember a very limited amount of posts back. He also struggles to deal with people answering him and others at the same time and starts thinking it all is in response to him. Like if I had a response to him here too and I was say, saying that you lied about something, he'd post in saying that he never lied about said something. Just a very silly character this Milton. To assume it is trolling is a kindness. 

 

He is also a Communist who won't admit it openly out of shame yes. Another one of those around here but he ain't as bad as Milton. 

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Your assertion is correct. Milton only has the power to remember a very limited amount of posts back. He also struggles to deal with people answering him and others at the same time and starts thinking it all is in response to him. Like if I had a response to him here too and I was say, saying that you lied about something, he'd post in saying that he never lied about said something. Just a very silly character this Milton. To assume it is trolling is a kindness. Roz gets frustrated that his arguments are terrible, easily disproven and often straight out lies.

 

He is also a Communist who won't admit it openly out of shame yes. Another one of those around here but he ain't as bad as Milton. <-- Lie that Roz knows is a lie.

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Roz gets frustrated that his arguments are terrible, easily disproven and often straight out lies.

The irony is strong with this one.

 

Can't speak for Roz but​ your arguments really aren't​ on the sunny side either.

 

-------------------------------------

Milton:Reganomics failed

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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O.O

Edited by Vicente Martinez

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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No. I get frustrated with your nonsense which to be kind I will say comes off as insane troll logic.

 

Who might that be? 

 

Big Brother. When it comes to Communism they are very similar.

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No. I get frustrated with your nonsense which to be kind I will say comes off as insane troll logic.

 

 

Big Brother. When it comes to Communism they are very similar.

So I am the spewer of troll nonsense? Glad to know that the Roz holds me in such high esteem. 

 

Big Brother is relatively consistent, for all that one might say against his views. No to mention his avatar is not a seizure-inducing stupidity. 

Edited by Klemens Hawicki
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The irony is strong with this one.

 

Can't speak for Roz but​ your arguments really aren't​ on the sunny side either.And lol it's not even frustration, it's literally what you do.

 

-------------------------------------

Milton:Reganomics failed

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

=====================

Milton:Reganomics failed

 

 

No. I get frustrated with your nonsense which to be kind I will say comes off as insane troll logic. You lie constantly and won't even listen to explanations about why something might be alright or not and instead stick to whatever your first emotion of it is.

 

 

Big Brother. When it comes to Communism they are very similar.

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Reganomics failed yet deflation decreased, employment soared, the GDP increased and the largest economical peacetime expansion in American history happened.

 

You can continue to say this as you like but it's basically your two words against my facts.Even economists disagree with you Milton.

"If a person is satisfied with everything,then he is a complete idiot.A normal person cannot be satisfied with everything."~Vladimir Putin

 

"Every human being makes mistakes."~Ian Smith

 

We do not know what tomorrow will bring. We are not prophets. This is a step in the dark. We can only proceed into the future with faith.~Pieter Wilhelm Botha

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I shouldn't discuss Marx in a topic regarding communism? lol

 

Mate, I expanded the topic to ideology in general.  The questions I asked you were to see if you were reasonable in general in your treatment of ideology.

 

Communism doesn't get special treatment just because.  It gets critiqued the same way as any other ideology out there.

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Your assertion is correct. Milton only has the power to remember a very limited amount of posts back. He also struggles to deal with people answering him and others at the same time and starts thinking it all is in response to him. Like if I had a response to him here too and I was say, saying that you lied about something, he'd post in saying that he never lied about said something. Just a very silly character this Milton. To assume it is trolling is a kindness. 

 

He is also a Communist who won't admit it openly out of shame yes. Another one of those around here but he ain't as bad as Milton. 

 

I'm not sure it goes that far.

 

It's feasible he's a sarcastic agent provocateur who's lost track of what he's doing.  He could be trying to present a strawman communist position in order to convince others to be anti-communist.

 

It's like trolling, but not really.

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