Voting

[WISD0MTREE]

Want to require photo IDs now for elections? 

http://rt.com/usa/154392-thousands-voters-registered-maryland-virginia/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

 

Go Texas. 

[Grillick]

Not really. Duplicate voter registrations are not a concern at all. It's bad enough that voters have to actively go out and register. Requiring them also to actively remove their registrations when they move goes too far.

 

And 164 duplicate voters out of 2.2 million is also not a cause for concern.

[Sailor Jerry]

Not really. Duplicate voter registrations are not a concern at all. It's bad enough that voters have to actively go out and register. Requiring them also to actively remove their registrations when they move goes too far.

And 164 duplicate voters out of 2.2 million is also not a cause for concern.

I'm not so much concerned by duplicate voters as to possible illegal voters. I'm too lazy to find any numbers on this, but going out once every couple of years and showing an ID.....which most places require anyway, is not a big deal. Once again, if you're a law abidding, legal citizen, there should be no issues with using a voter ID card.

[Grillick]

Duplicate voters are the only illegal voters anyone has any business being concerned about, if you ask me. It's a travesty that we keep anyone who lives here from participating in our government.

 

And the inherent racism/classism of voter ID Laws was already discussed at length on the previous thread.

[Sailor Jerry]

Duplicate voters are the only illegal voters anyone has any business being concerned about, if you ask me. It's a travesty that we keep anyone who lives here from participating in our government.

And the inherent racism/classism of voter ID Laws was already discussed at length on the previous thread.

So anyone who lives here should be able to vote? What about those that don't pay taxes....whats a travsesty, is there are some people that think everyone should be treated as equals....well when everyone starts paying the same in taxes instead of someone having to pay more percentage wise like I have to in order for some illegal to circumnavigate the system and get federal aid like foodstamps, college assistance, free cell phones and cell phone plans, etc.

 

Until everyone carries their own weight, equal and legally....then yeah....I think a voter ID card is the way to go.

[Grillick]

Yes, everyone who lives here should be able to vote. In addition, I don't think that whether people pay taxes or not should be a factor in whether they can vote: the Constitution agrees with me.

 

And we wouldn't have problems with "illegals," as you call them, if we just let everyone who wanted to move here come. Immigrants are a boon to our economy, and they enhance our culture and make us more tolerant. We shouldn't have any restrictions on immigration, or on voting.

[Lambdadelta]

I think a voter ID card is the way to go.

Okay, but you've got to fashion every citizen of the United States with one of these ID cards, at no cost (direct or indirect) to them, otherwise it's a poll tax - something explicitly prohibited by the Twenty-fourth Amendment, as Grillick noted above.

[Sailor Jerry]

Okay, but you've got to fashion every citizen of the United States with one of these ID cards, at no cost (direct or indirect) to them, otherwise it's a poll tax - something explicitly prohibited by the Twenty-fourth Amendment, as Grillick noted above.

Not really.  You're suppose to be able present some sort of ID to vote anyway so they the folks at the polling station can verify who you are.  So we might not need another different ID card, but an ID card that is already in use by the majority of the population.....drivers licence could be used....they already show your picture and address.  If you don't drive and you are over 18, then there should be some sort of a mandatory citizen ID anyway.  How can you open a bank account, rent an appartment, by property, get loans, etc without having a photo ID.  Some places require the use of 2 photo IDs.  So using IDs that people should already have should not be an issue.

[Lambdadelta]

Not really.  You're suppose to be able present some sort of ID to vote anyway so they the folks at the polling station can verify who you are.  So we might not need another different ID card, but an ID card that is already in use by the majority of the population.....drivers licence could be used....they already show your picture and address.  If you don't drive and you are over 18, then there should be some sort of a mandatory citizen ID anyway.  How can you open a bank account, rent an appartment, by property, get loans, etc without having a photo ID.  Some places require the use of 2 photo IDs.  So using IDs that people should already have should not be an issue.

Being able to open a bank account, rent an apartment, buy property and get loans are not constitutionally-guaranteed rights.

 

Being able to vote without costs being imposed on you is.

[Ikol]

Gotta go with Lamb here, we tried that shit here and it goes orwellian/racist quickly.

[Lambdadelta]

Gotta go with Lamb here, we tried that !@#$ here and it goes orwellian/racist quickly.

That's because the intention isn't voting security, it's voter suppression (specifically, of socio-economic groups more likely to vote Democrat than Republican - blacks, Hispanics, the poor, the elderly and so on).

[Sailor Jerry]

That's because the intention isn't voting security, it's voter suppression (specifically, of socio-economic groups more likely to vote Democrat than Republican - blacks, Hispanics, the poor, the elderly and so on).

so how do we keep it so that only legal citizens of the united states can vote?

[Lambdadelta]

so how do we keep it so that only legal citizens of the united states can vote?

Like this:

 

Okay, but you've got to fashion every citizen of the United States with one of these ID cards, at no cost (direct or indirect) to them, otherwise it's a poll tax - something explicitly prohibited by the Twenty-fourth Amendment, as Grillick noted above.

However, absent that, you cannot arbitrarily ignore the Constitution's guarantee on the right to vote without having to pay for it.

[Taureg]

That's because the intention isn't voting security, it's voter suppression (specifically, of socio-economic groups more likely to vote Democrat than Republican - blacks, Hispanics, the poor, the elderly and so on).

 

Yikes!

[Dark Specter]

i believe that legal americans can only be allowed to vote while illegals can't. illegal immigrants aren't citizens of the united states thus they (if im correct) aren't potected by the US Constitution and if they were then they wouldn't be getting deported from the country every year.

 

And i have no problem with showing a photo id to vote.

[RedArmy BushMan]

i believe that legal americans can only be allowed to vote while illegals can't. illegal immigrants aren't citizens of the united states thus they (if im correct) aren't potected by the US Constitution and if they were then they wouldn't be getting deported from the country every year.

 

And i have no problem with showing a photo id to vote.

I think it's on a state by state thing. I'm pretty sure California let's them, but I know for sure Arizona doesn't.

 

As for me, I carry photo ID with me everywhere I go, so showing ID to vote isn't an issue at all.

[Dark Specter]

I think it's on a state by state thing. I'm pretty sure California let's them, but I know for sure Arizona doesn't.

 

As for me, I carry photo ID with me everywhere I go, so showing ID to vote isn't an issue at all.

If it is a state by state thing then it would be up to the citizens to decide whether or not if that policy is with in or against the Constitution. But if the state says its ok well then i have no reason to complain.

[Grillick]

Non-citizens are not allowed to vote in any state. I object to this policy, but it is not unconstitutional. States that enact voter ID laws require CITIZENS to obtain a photo ID in order to cast a vote. All photo IDs in the United States carry a monetary or non-monetary cost. Therefore, any law which requires a citizen, as a prerequisite to voting, to have a photo ID is an unconstitutional poll tax.

[Hereno]

Yeah, if only we get the Democrat into office. They'll shut down Guantanamo, give us universal health care, and end the war on drugs.

[Dark Specter]

but we do have a democrat in office and non of that has happened yet, except the universal health care which if you dont apply for is a fine of like 1500 bucks.

[Taureg]

You need a photo ID to get a fishing license, a hunting license, a marriage license, to get on an airplane, to cash a check, to check into a hotel, to open a bank account, to buy a bottle of booze, to get a library card, to pick up a package at FedEx, to rent a surfboard, to pass through security in public buildings, to get an airline ticket, to get into Disneyland, to get a passport, to buy insurance, to buy a drink in a bar, to sign a lease, to join a gym, to get public assistance, to enter the NAACP convention, to enter the Democat Party convention, to enter the Republican Party convention, to apply for food stamps, to apply for welfare, to apply for Social Security, to to apply for Medicare, to apply for unemployment, to buy a gun, to buy a car, to apply for a mortgate, to adopt a pet, to  buy a cell phone, to go to a casino, to pick up a prescription, to donate blood, to buy a train ticket, to enter an ACT test center, to sell something at a pawn shop, to adopt a child, to apply for a job, camp at a state park, etc. etc. etc.

 

But that same photo ID is just to harsh a requirement to VOTE.  That's just absurd.  Even Mexico requires photo ID to vote. 

[Sailor Jerry]

Non-citizens are not allowed to vote in any state. I object to this policy, but it is not unconstitutional. States that enact voter ID laws require CITIZENS to obtain a photo ID in order to cast a vote. All photo IDs in the United States carry a monetary or non-monetary cost. Therefore, any law which requires a citizen, as a prerequisite to voting, to have a photo ID is an unconstitutional poll tax.

What if the photo ID was issued at no cost to the voter. All the voter needs to do is present their SS card, their birth certificate (or a certified copy of it) and some sort of proof of residence (if their state requires one) like a utility bill that is in their name. They go to someplace like the DMV, present their paper work.....their name and their place of residence, they get issued a voter ID# (not your SSN), then you step in front of a camera....trying not to blink.....the picture is now in the system and then the the clerk prints/creates your new, shiny, laminated photo ID card.....free of charge.

 

If you don't want an ID card, then registering as above with the same info but instead of a card, your thumb print is electronically placed into a voter system.....then when you go to vote, you show up at the polling station, get your thumbprint scanned for identification purposes and away you go to cast your vote.

[Grillick]

Why not just let everybody vote? Wouldn't that be cheaper and simpler? Why are you so intent on spending countless taxpayer dollars to prevent something that has at worst one hundredth of a percent prevalence?

 

Voter fraud is a non-issue. The only reason for an ID requirement is to keep people for whom acquiring a photo ID is more inconvenient than it is worth from voting. We already hold our elections during work hours in the middle of a single work day. What more do you need to keep the working poor from voting?

[Sailor Jerry]

Why not just let everybody vote? Wouldn't that be cheaper and simpler? Why are you so intent on spending countless taxpayer dollars to prevent something that has at worst one hundredth of a percent prevalence?

 

Voter fraud is a non-issue. The only reason for an ID requirement is to keep people for whom acquiring a photo ID is more inconvenient than it is worth from voting. We already hold our elections during work hours in the middle of a single work day. What more do you need to keep the working poor from voting?

so we let everyone vote.....whats to stop a billion or so people from flooding to our shores just to vote then....how would we control that?

 

Also, I believe voting stations open early and are open late, so unless you work more than 14 or so hours a day, I think you'll be able to vote. I've made every vote since I was 18, and even used adsentee voting when I was stationed overseas. "Working poor", how did are they getting jobs without IDs....oh the under the table folks who don't pay taxes to help support our great society.

[Grillick]

so we let everyone vote.....whats to stop a billion or so people from flooding to our shores just to vote then....how would we control that?

 

Also, I believe voting stations open early and are open late, so unless you work more than 14 or so hours a day, I think you'll be able to vote. I've made every vote since I was 18, and even used adsentee voting when I was stationed overseas. "Working poor", how did are they getting jobs without IDs....oh the under the table folks who don't pay taxes to help support our great society.

I have no problem with a billion or so people flooding to our shores just to vote. For one thing, I don't think it's likely to happen. For another, in order to do that, they'd have to actually come to the U.S., which would represent a huge boon for the airlines, food services, hospitality, tourism, and retail industries. Alternatively, they'd have to send in absentee ballots, which would be a huge revenue boost for the USPS. Besides, there is no greater single influence on this world than U.S. foreign policy: why shouldn't the rest of the world have a voice in the makeup of the government that creates it?

 

And let me disabuse you of the notion that anyone "doesn't pay taxes to help support our great society." Off-the-books workers may avoid paying some income taxes, but individual income taxes account for less than 40% of all state tax revenue nationwide. In Texas, where WISD0MTREE lives, individual income taxes account for 0% of all tax revenue. In Missouri, where you live, Coach, individual income taxes account for 46.8% of all tax revenue. Corporate income taxes and sales taxes are paid by every consumer, and people with lower incomes devote far higher proportions of their income to consumption spending rather than savings and investment, which are taxed at substantially lower rates. [Source]