Ripper

Sorry, @Elijah Mikaelson, but Yakuza is "unproven". It's not proven to be a part of BK-sphere. So, once we get peace with BK-sphere and NPO, we will just keep fighting you. Either that or @Roquentin will have to stop hiding behind his finger and admit that the above list is the actual bloc that BK holds and NPO supports.

lol, what? It gets tiring if you even decline the facts. The war started on October 19th, 2018. Two weeks later... We may not have had treaty terms on day 1 (hell, we didn't even know whether we would win), but were the first alliance to post terms. And regardless of terms, we would never accept to end the war before getting all the whales to go down. For which we knew it would take months. lol, what? #2 a. Do you mean the time when I was in Arrgh and was raiding them all the time... then joined CoS... didn't fight for them at any war... then plotted to get EMC down... then imposed the treaty term on them which was one of the hardest to accept? Again, no idea what you have in mind. I beg you, enlighten me on that part too. What historical events do you have in mind? b. Even that was true... So what? You decide whether you will work with others based on their relations with TKR? This is some weird obsession you got there. 1. It wasn't IQ, it was peripheral-IQ (more specifically, Malal) that suggested it. PoWs... suck. I hope I don't have to elaborate on that? 2. Yeah, you got this right. I wasn't getting my neutral alliance to spend all those resources and time for IQ to profit from the war and "close the gap". Our intent behind the war are/were in our DoW. See, we have no backrooms as you may be used to. But since you are not happy that this was not my intention, this means that your reason to go for this war was to "close the gap". ??? We made a deal before the war, talked nothing about it during the war and contacted Hilmes about it right after the war. Again, zero idea what you are talking about. As I said, tell me what changed from the 29th of January to the 30th and stop trying to dodge the question. Nothing was "described" or determined up to the point you cut communications with me. Also, are you implying I "pressed you"/ imposed such a term on you? The only ones that talked about dropping extra ties were you (see Keshav's comment): 1. Yes, I didn't want to... and never said I did. And you knew that even before Knightfall. The deal between TEst/CoS/t$/NPO was about a 2 months protection. 2a. Sorry for not asking you! But as I said, NPO is not the center of the world. 2b. Yes, I did it... After you removed me from the negotiations. Meaning that you didn't want to work with me. 2c. 40 members for SK, 40 for Soup, 40 for CoS and 120 for TKR adds up to 240 members. 130 for NPO and 90 for t$/e$ alone adds up to 220. That's 1:1 ratio. Maybe check your math again 1. Yes, NPO/t$ and allies PLUS CoS would be too OP. t$ already had a high-tier. Supposedly, we were in the process of forming new blocs, not a new hegemony. 2. And yet I got them to fight with you in Knightfall and accept protecting you for 2 months, while CoS was paperless. You are welcome! a. I cannot know what you discuss with others in backrooms. It's the first time I hear about this. Even if I was in the discussions, I don't see why my alliance's FA should be restricted by your attempt to isolate TKR. b. Ok, that's really funny that you don't see it: EMC was dissolved because Chaos was formed! So, again, you are welcome!

So, let me get this straight: 1. Ripper states (?) that the war will last for many more months due to TKR not accepting terms. This makes Roq suspicious of Ripper, since showing respect to your enemies is unheard of. Ripper pushes all the terms on TKR regardless, some of which would actually prevent the formation of Chaos (TKR signing Guardian or GOB). 2. The war ends and the talks for the formation of N$O start, with both t$ and NPO including Ripper in the negotiations, because trust (?) till the 29th of January. 3. Something magic happens. 4. Ripper gets removed from the talks on the 29th. 5. Ripper forms with others Chaos two months later. 6. Roq states that he removed Ripper from the talks because Ripper would have formed Chaos 2 months later (probably Roq is a prophet). Can you make it more clear what happened in #3? I am really lost here. Do tell me what changed from the 29th of January to the 30th. I may have to work on something I am unaware of.

1. But... IQ doesn't exist, so what's the problem exactly? 2. I guess the "plotted" part is for different things. It just happens that you love the word and use it everywhere! In any case, one does not "plot" a bloc. They form it. Regarding this "if scenario"... I don't know Roq, just get in our shoes and think what would Roq do and why? Why would Roq fight/impose terms/press on the terms if he was already "plotting" to form a bloc (and a greater coalition?) with the alliances he is fighting. I mean... CoS asked for TKR to sign Guardian/GOB till the end of the war, without ever withdrawing the term. And when TKR got invited to Chaos bloc, it was asked to drop all of its ties with other alliances (including the ones they had just signed!) If that looks like to you that we were "plotting" all along, I don't really know what to say. The 5D chess is strong with this one. Uhm... Did I take any terms back? Also, I didn't know it's illegal to state your opinion about whether the opponent alliance will accept terms or not. And if you had a problem with that... then tell me then and/or make a motion to remove me from negotiations? 1. Drop them all you want. I don't see how they counter anything I said before. Here, let me quote myself too. 2a. What I get from that point is that you felt "pressure" from me and understood that I was trying to make you feel guilty because... I asked you whether you would follow-up with the pre-war deal? "I am ok with starting from scratch." / "What I want is to see whether this will happen or not." Well... my apologies if these two sentences made you feel pressure. Do tell me what part of them made you feel pressure and guilt. No idea where this "do what I want when I want" part you are talking about comes out of the logs you posted. Maybe try with better logs. 2b. Again, regarding the "a reason" part, I think I made myself clear at my previous post. Since you post logs, I guess it's ok I post some myself (in my case, just to prove the timeline I am talking about is right): I guess Sans (= Hilmes) also pressed you a lot by asking for your opinion, just like me... In any case, that's the last thing I saw from our mutual discussions for the formation/support of your new sphere. That's at the end of January. I presume you took the conversation elsewhere and just removed me from the exchange of messages for your own reasons (which is understandable). After that, I asked t$ multiple times whether they were seeing light in the tunnel and the answer I was getting was not very supportive. In any case, as I said, NPO is not the center of the world. Instead of waiting and spending more of my time in your alliance rather than mine, I just decided to make things interesting for my members, find some nice comrades and try to make something new. Chaos formed two months later. If you removing me from the N$O negotiations and me signing Chaos two months later "gave you a lot of misgivings"... Well, this sounds like a you problem. I don't know what you expected from CoS. ------------------------------------------- To me it looks like that whatever anyone tells you can be spinned as trying to press you, make you feel guilt, use you, plot against you, etc. Either you have trust issues, or want to pretend you have trust issues to justify your actions, or that's just how you work and just assume that others do the same.

Ehm... Where did Hodor ask for easy terms exactly?

If this psychology session ends up with all of us hugging, it will be really touching.

Rereading some posts, it may have sound like you/t$ are blamed for something, but I assure you that was not my intention. I don't think me or Pre have written something that is not aligned to your testimony. Thanks for the timeline-presentation, Parti.

Your aren't wrong. That was just a small jab to tease you. It's a common secret we actually love each other and were never planning to fight each other. The last two wars between us are just a plot to throw ash to the eyes of the public in order to make them think that the high-tier nations fight each other. Either that or a plot that is based on what NPO will have for breakfast or what their future plans are. I never pushed reps. I pushed fun terms even if other members of the coalition wanted actual reps. That's what I hate about you. You have no humour. This relation cannot go on. From a player's point of view, I am happy about you feeling like this. Honestly. ❤️

"Ri/Manthrax joined a bloc after its course had already been plotted. If you are saying Chaos formed so SRD could get revenge on you, then I'm impressed Ri/Manthrax got that out of the rest of us." As I said, try to be consistent with your spins, else it gets pointless. Not sure what you hate you did. If you are talking about throwing logs, I am 100% fine with that. I never asked you or t$ to hide anything and I never hid my agenda. And, apparently, it may shock you, but I am not cryptic as most of the leaders playing this game. Not sure what you don't understand from the "a reason" part. IQ splitting was a great bonus. So, it was one more reason for us to roll with it, without any fear of you doing to the game exactly what you are doing right now. I see nothing contradictory. As I said, your statement doesn't add up: > Did TEst/CoS strart planning? Yes. > Was IQ-NPO one of the first alliances to join? Yes. > Did TEst/CoS accept you joining the war based on certain conditions imposed on you? No. > Was t$ waiting to join the war till they got assurance from you you would split? Yes. > Would we have started the war regardless? Yes, since what we cared about mostly was not t$ joining but t$ fighting against that (and that was secured it would happen) So, from a timeline point of view, your whole arguement that TEst/CoS accepted you (!!!) to paticipate in Knightfall 2 months before the start of the war because you made an agreement with Partisan a few weeks before the war makes 0 sense. As you say: "Two different timelines". I mean, seriously, I don't get it. What do you imply? That if you hadn't agreed on the t$ thing, TEst/CoS would kick you from the coalition? Or that TEst/CoS would cancel the plans they've been working on for months? I think you see both scenarios are ridiculous. The only "obligation" you had post-war, was to follow-up with the "deal" you've made with Partisan, Pre and I, and as I've proven/said, that was independent of the war. Even if the war hadn't happened, I would still go with it. What I was giving in the deal was making my alliance non-paperless for the first time in order to protect two alliances that I wouldn't necessarily profit from in the future (needless to say that's a lot to ask from our members). What you were getting was a chance for something new, since you supposedly wanted new people to work with, turn a page, etc. etc. And what Partisan wanted was a strong ally and to break the fronts of the game to something new and non-repetitive (that's where his interests alligned with Pre's and mine). Like Pre, I never said you were "obliged" to follow-up after Partisan quiting. It's right there in the logs you threw: "I am ok with starting from scratch." / "I want to trust you." / "I want to work with you in that front." / "I won't hide my agenda from you." I don't know what else you could ask from an non-allied-to-you alliance with no past history of cooperation. I followed up with all of my statements. As I said, CoS has to prove nothing to anyone. After all we've done for the game and your community (I care more about your members than the alliance per se) to help, and after sympathizing with your partial external political isolation, I will be honest, I am shocked when you accuse CoS of hating you/plotting agaist you/ using you or whatever. We've been talking (you and me specifically) for literally months for the war and your future plans, and the only thing you do is going ahead and pretending I don't exist just to prove how CoS is not nice towards you. The only things you have to say is how Manthrax who isn't a leader since May-June 2018 doesn't like you or The Covenant, or how Bezzers that became leader during this war also had issues with you while he was in AIM. At least you remembered the above logs you threw. And thanks for posting them, further proving my points and how as an alliance we've been following a straght line based on sincerity, being open to work with others, and trusting them about their motivations. Well, I also am not "scared" about anything. I just have "worries". That's the way I will put it from now on. Thanks for worrying for us though.

> Roq: "SRD is one person. He doesn't define the policy of an entire alliance or a bloc." > Roq: "Manthrax hates me. He is the secret leader of CoS and defines the policy of CoS and the Chaos bloc." Try to be consistent with your spins, else it gets pointless. You are yet again mixing up two different things. The "deal" Roq was for TEst/CoS to protect you and t$ post-war to form your thing. The actual war was not part of the deal. The deal existed independently of the war, as far as CoS goes. If you want to blame someone for "making" you "drop" people/sign new people based on you joining the war, blame t$. Actually, the only alliance that had linked this deal with its participation to the war was t$. Partisan didn't want t$ to join the war unless NPO was to split from IQ. I am not Partisan. Pre is not Partisan. So, you are barking at the wrong tree. Keep in mind that TEst and CoS were the first alliances to plan this war. You were called in this war and accepted to participate from the very beginning because you wanted to roll TKR. Regardless of "the deal" with t$. NPO joined the war effort first (right away) and t$ joined the coalition later, after Partisan getting assurance from you that you would leave IQ, etc. So, the same war would have happened, regardless of what you did with IQ. The only difference would be whether t$ would have joined or not. And while we are at it, I remind you that you were one of those that were afraid of actually getting GOB in the war and Pre and I were the ones that insisted in adding them to the targets.

Ok. You are free to go back to your mines. Get it?

Hey! Let him think for himself! Classic NPO authoritarian scum... You should be ashamed of yourself! :<

> CoS joins the war to help in the only front it was needed. To hit the whales. > SRD gets mad CoS rolled him and stole his TKR-toy, so hits CoS after that war. > It doesn't look like the upper tier nations are ever planning to fight each other again! It was all to break IQ. Honestly Roq, you are giving your alliance too much credit. CoS didn't fight for so many months and with that many losses because it wanted NPO to do X, Y or Z. And, for the sake of our members, I won't accept such declarations from you. CoS fought for the reasons presented in our DoW. My apologies, but NPO is not the center of the universe. It doesn't define the policies of CoS, SK, TKR or whoever else, and it is not the reason blocs like Chaos are formed.

1. Ok Roq. Thrax hates NPO and forms a bloc just to kill you. Explain to me this: -> Why did CoS support you at the previous wa then? Why did Thrax specifically/personally attack TKR (where he has friends) and helped NPO (that supposedly is his greates foe ever)? 2. Also, yes, you are right. Chaos and KETOG were planning to take you down from the very beginning. Explain to me this: -> Why did KETOG and Chaos have a war between them right before this global? ---------------------------------------------------> Either you think we are psuchos or stupid, or you are just desperate to prove your point. Nothing about your accusations regarding past hatred/old players/ old friendships makes sense. I made Thrax attack his very friends during Knightfall and help your alliance get the victory you couldn't get at all your previous failed attempts to get TKR down. CoS attacked SK before Knightfall. Fought together with SK and you during Knightfall against TKR. Then allied TKR. We have literally fought all of our allies (except for Soup) within 6 months before the formation of our bloc. CoS needs to prove nothing more. Our actions speak louder than our words. We've shown we can move forward, no matter the past "history of hatred" or whatever that is.

3. Calling your allies incapable is pretty rude. 4. At least your side accepts that BK was losing before you intervening. Still, it's rude wounding your ally's ego. Too late of what? Of BK losing a war? ----------------------------------------------------------- In any case, thanks for being sincere about the ties you had with BK. Although no confirmation was really needed from you, it makes me smile when I think you supposedly launched the previous war to condemn secret treaties between alliances, only for you to do the same right after the end of the war. ---------------------------------------------------------- P.S. Regarding the "logs" you mention again and again, as I said, I would love to see some that are not 6 months old and are post-IQ ones. And a kind reminder: Thrax hasn't been a leader of CoS for over a year. I couldn't care less about any personal grudges between you two. Saying or even implying that a whole bloc was formed "because Thrax doesn't like us" is plain silly and childish. I am sure you don't form your blocs based on such factors. Right? Well, seeing how you behave towards Adrienne, I think you just believe that I also don't lead my own alliance and Thrax is the old school player that defines CoS's policies. Either that or that's what you want to let others think. @Nizam Adrienne love, come to my corner and let's cry together.

Said the coalition that sold their infra to avoid the downdeclare strats?

Why so hostile? Did they hurt you?

I think I wasn't even around at that time, so you are talking about something that happened... 3 years ago or so? How is that relevant with anything? Maybe you should learn from BK and turn the page too. 1. So, that made you not want to ally t$ (since they didn't keep confidence) which resulted in you... signing t$? Or you are accusing just Pre and me specifically for leaking things? 2. Well, thanks for your sacrifice, Roq. I am sure you didn't want to hit TKR et al. t$/CoS/TEst made you sell your soul to the devil. Leaving jokes aside, can you explain what's the good and what's the bad part of the deal? If the bad part is signing t$... well you still did it. I don't remember something like this in our DoW. 2 of its members literally fought beside you at the previous global war. No idea what you are talking about here. Nonsese. Who is mixing up the timelones now? Whatever you have against Bezzers, he became leader during this very war, a month ago. I am lost here. Are you talking about the previous conflict between Chaos and KETOG? If yes, do explain to me this plan of "restoration". Oh Roq. The previous plot was not to roll NPO/BK. It was to roll IQ (for CoS at least, that was the case in case you were to not keep your word for the split). You did make the split though. Well, at least technically. From what we got from t$ during this global though, you decided to keep secret ties with them anyway.

Hi Revan. Long time no see! Will this alliance stay around post-war? If not, why was it formed? You could have attacked from your previous alliance.

Since everyone seems to be too sensitive when people use the words "liar" or "lies", I will just state that this is 100% untrue... ... unless you are talking about this: The only suggestion (and not really agreement) that was made between KETOG and Chaos during our war was that we would stop fighting each other in case an outsider was to try and intervene in the said war. Which kinda happened, and that's why we are all here. Regarding the offers/help that you never got, TEst and CoS had agreed to protect you and t$ when N$O was to form (supposedly, after the previous war, as it was agreed between you, Partisan, Prefontain and I). Plenty of alliances have given you chances and made more than one leaps of faith for you. And we never asked you to hit BK. --------------------------------------------------- Regarding your previous posts about "trust issues" you supposedly have against Chaos, I know there are none. You are focusing on TKR on purpose, since you have enough bad history with them and can sell the story about them telling lies untrue things by mentioning past events, etc. See though, Chaos has 3 more members. SK, Soup and CoS. For Soup, you cannot know a lot of things, but for CoS and SK... ... we literally fought side by side at the previous war for months and have talked for hours. You've seen how CoS and SK work, what our vision is, how we behave towards allies, temporary allies and even enemies. So, I am confident that you trust our word. Still, if you have reasons to not trust our word, I would love some logs and screenshots (preferably not from 6 months ago). Edit: To stay on the topic of the thread. "I give it 2 weeks".

@Roquentin, @Dio Brando, any attempts to spin this one? Although NPO is really talkative in the t$-DoW thread, I don't see much activity here. I wonder why... If possible, stick with your standard style of verbose statements and walls of text. A conspiracy theory would be entertaining too. Something like: "Horsemen's sustained infra damage wasn't high enough and Chaos-KETOG didn't go all out against them, so this war may have been a training/fun war. Also, Chaos Bloc - KETOG accepted to make peace with them too quickly. This makes you wonder whether there was a plan all along and Chaos Bloc - KETOG have secret ties with Horsemen and by extention Fark / WTF."

tl;dr Arrgh declares war on Brotherhood of the Clouds (BoC)

@Agent W I found your rap nemesis. I suggest you fight.

Mandatory "Arrgh!"

You filthy pirate... What did you keep the $10M on your nation for? ?