Rozalia vs Ibrahim, on Islamic Misdeeds

[Arthur Wellington]

copy past = copy past ibra.. I can find your replies explaining stuff on several webpages.. Evidence from terrible websites = bad evidence..

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

copy past = copy past ibra.. I can find your replies explaining stuff on several webpages.. Evidence from terrible websites = bad evidence..

Ikr? He dumber than a day-old hippo

Edited October 3, 2015 by Lysanderius

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

copy past = copy past ibra.. I can find your replies explaining stuff on several webpages.. Evidence from terrible websites = bad evidence..

 

You can go look up the Greek text of John 1:1, and then search up the different words for God that were used.

 

"Ἐν á¼€Ïχῇ ἦν ὠΛόγος, καὶ ὠΛόγος ἦν Ï€Ïὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὠΛόγος."

 

(I'll provide the links myself if you are interested.)

 

τὸν Θεόν / Ton Theon = The God (capital G) = Supreme Lord

 

Θεὸς / Theos = a god (small g) = created being, a godly person

 

Ἐν á¼€Ïχῇ ἦν ὠΛόγος

"In [the] beginning was the Word.

καὶ ὠΛόγος ἦν Ï€Ïὸς τὸν Θεόν

"and the Word was with the God."

καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὠΛόγος

"and God was the Word."

 

In Exodus 7:1 "Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophetâ€.

 

The word "God" being used here is elohim (×ֱלֹהִי×), which is a small g.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Robert Ap Ioan]

It's asking me to subscribe before I can read it.

 

 

 

Yeah, not gonna happen lol.

That's funny because I haven't subscribed to Private Eye and it is in the public part of the website. Read the damn item and tell me that Saudi Arabia aren't guilty of the same crime as Putin and Assad.

 

 

If we were to read John 1:1 as you are suggesting it would read like this:

 

"In the beginning was the God and the God was with God and the God was God" Which quite frankly is nonsense.

 

Lets look at the verse again: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

 

The fist word "God" used here in Greek text is "Theon" which means the "Supreme Lord".

 

The second word "God" used here in Greek text is "Theos" which means a "created being" with great quality or a godly person.

 

Much like in Exodus 7:1 "Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet†it was not saying that Moses was God, but god (small g).

I would say that the believes of the Holy Church outweigh the opinion of an opinionated Muslim. The Church has always believed that Jesus is the great I AM, as I have demonstrated to you and will always believe that Jesus is the great I AM, to the glory of God the Father, of whom he is of one essence. Again I put it to you that I would love to know who taught you about Christianity, because they really haven't done a good job. That isn't really too personal a question is it?

 

Don't get offended if I choose not to answer any personal questions

I only want to know what is the basis of your belief. You claim that America is a greater terrorist than Saudi Arabia and/or ISIS, even though Saudi Arabia and ISIS are guilty of the things you lambast America for.

By true exponent I mean who influences your reading of the Qu'ran? Who taught you Sharia law? Which Islamic clerics/philosophers do you class as being truly Islamic? Where do you get your worldview from, as it is totally alien to the worldview of Muslims I know.

 

I know they are challenging, but I want to fully understand where you are coming from.

 

What do you think of Salafism and Wahhabism?

Why can't you answer simple questions?

 

To be fair I will tell you where my faith comes from:

 

My parents are Christian and I grew up in a Christian household. I have been heavily influenced by Kallistos Ware and also members of the Pentecostal Church. In church terms I am under the authority of Archbishop Barry ++Cambrensis. I was taught the catechism of the church by my vicar and curate at the time. I have been a member of the church since I was baptised by immersion in a paddling pool.

 

Now go on, I have given you a example of how to answer the questions, and the level of detail I want. Of course I cannot answer the questions I have asked you because I am not a Muslim. I am just a Christian working towards getting a Bishop's license.

 

I will be kind and let you answer an easy question: What do you think of Salafism and Wahhabism?

Edited October 3, 2015 by Rob Ap Ioan

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

That's funny because I haven't subscribed to Private Eye and it is in the public part of the website. Read the damn item and tell me that Saudi Arabia aren't guilty of the same crime as Putin and Assad.

 

This is all it says:

 

"4,855 People killed in civil war in neighbouring Yemen, in which Saudi Arabia is leading coalition, so far this year."

 

It doesn't specifically say who killed those people or what percentage of those killed were civilians.

 

P.S. I don't support the Saudi Government but I visited Saudi Arabia and the people there are amazing.

 

 

EXTRA: Though the Saudi Government have undoubtedly killed civilians in Yemen, since they are engaging in an air campaign like their evil American allies, I would never dream of going so far as to compare them to Assad. He is on a league of his own in terms of how many people he has slaughtered (100,000+ civilians). I am even hesitating to mention Assad in the same breath as the Americans/Zionist pigs in Israhell these days, that's how messed up that psychopath is, but thankfully the noose around his neck is getting tighter and not even the Russians can save him now.

 

[Robert Ap Ioan]

If the Yemeni government isn't comparable to Assad why do Saudi Arabia need to come in and reinstate them?

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

If the Yemeni government isn't comparable to Assad why do Saudi Arabia need to come in and reinstate them?

 

No world leaders in existence today have killed more civilians than Assad, hence why the Yemeni government isn't comparable to that scumbag, but they are still corrupt like the Saudis and all other governments.

 

So it's in the mutual interest of the existing governments to keep each other afloat, but I'm a believer in revolution, and I think the people will eventually overthrow them, despite the initial hardships they will face.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Rozalia]

I see after ignoring my post Ibrahim is up to his usual trick of taking snippets of other people's arguments on the internet to attack other religions he barely knows anything about. When you can argue your own religion Ibrahim without sounding like a loony and lending credence to those who believe Islam and it's followers should be wiped from this earth... then maybe you might be able to argue such things.
 

P.S. I don't support the Saudi Government but I visited Saudi Arabia and the people there are amazing.

 
Just to clarify for anybody not in the know who'd start thinking Ibrahim has some actual compassion. The rest of us might not like the Saudi government for being a barbaric state that cuts off heads for the most silly of transgressions. Dear Ibrahim however is instead against them as even if religious fundamentalists... they are far too liberal for him. That is the level of crazy we're dealing with here. Allows interest? American allies? Not true Muslims (cut off their heads?).
 

EXTRA: Though the Saudi Government have undoubtedly killed civilians in Yemen, since they are engaging in an air campaign like their evil American allies, I would never dream of going so far as to compare them to Assad. He is on a league of his own in terms of how many people he has slaughtered (100,000+ civilians). I am even hesitating to mention Assad in the same breath as the Americans/Zionist pigs in Israhell these days, that's how messed up that psychopath is, but thankfully the noose around his neck is getting tighter and not even the Russians can save him now.

 
Just to clarify Ibrahim's thoughts so people don't get confused and think he has any sort of compassion. He hates Assad the most in world for opposing his heroes in ISIS, who may I add kill hardly anyone (a lot of accidental beheading incidents apparently), don't kill women and would never do so, nor do they partake in sex trade and pedophilia. Even if the propaganda site he uses all the time to push his rubbish is also reporting the fact that they do it ain't true... everything on Assad on there is 100% true, but on ISIS? Israeli conspiracy or some rubbish trying to frame the most holy ISIS, those lovely chaps. 
 

No world leaders in existence today have killed more civilians than Assad, hence why the Yemeni government isn't comparable to that scumbag, but they are still corrupt like the Saudis and all other governments.
 
So it's in the mutual interest of the existing governments to keep each other afloat, but I'm a believer in revolution, and I think the people will eventually overthrow them, despite the initial hardships they will face.

 
Well Mengistu of Ethiopia is still alive so no Assad isn't the guy out there alive with the biggest body count (though thankfully Mengistu is long gone from government now), and who knows how many the young Kim has killed already. 
 
Also no you don't care about civilian deaths so stop trying to appeal that area. When your ISIS buddies kill people not only do you see no wrong in it, but you outright disrespect the dead by either claiming they never died or worse that they somehow deserved their end. You're a murderous zealot too cowardly to act out your fantasies so you live that through ISIS, hence why you cheer lead them on. I'd say at the very least you care about Muslim lives, but you are so sick in the head that any Muslim who dies at ISIS's hands was clearly not a true Muslim.

 

Again for what must be the dozen time now... why aren't you fighting with your heroes ISIS Ibrahim? They are according to you the only true Muslim's out there doing anything, and their state unlike all the rest is actually Muslim... surely a strong holy Muslim like yourself should be fighting the most holy Jihad against other Muslims disbelievers. You just a slimy coward who can talk his nonsense on the internet but can't back it up and go get blown up by Assad? Or maybe are you not quite as true a Muslim as you say and would get your head chopped off when you meet them?

 

Come on people I think this is a pretty important question here. Why isn't Ibrahim fighting together with ISIS right now, such a question needs to be answered. 

[Moreau]

I do my jihad in pnw

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

Ibrahim read this >>>> http://www.o-bible.com/kjv.htmlthen come back and argue

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Ibrahim read this >>>> http://www.o-bible.com/kjv.htmlthen come back and argue

 

You should read it first.

 

Just saying.

[Speaker Faris Wheeler]

You should read it first.

 

Just saying.

no you should, you would understand what Christianity ACTUALLY is.

 

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

So the Jews use of white phosphorus in Gaza in the previous "war" and the recent slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza weren't terrorist attacks?

 

The Crusade declared by Bush against Afghanistan and Iraq and the millions of civilians they killed in those wars weren't terrorist attacks?

 

I don't think so.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Again I put it to you that I would love to know who taught you about Christianity, because they really haven't done a good job. That isn't really too personal a question is it?

 

I'm a student of comparative religion.

[Dimitri Valko]

So the Jews use of white phosphorus in Gaza in the previous "war" and the recent slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza weren't terrorist attacks?

 

The Crusade declared by Bush against Afghanistan and Iraq and the millions of civilians they killed in those wars weren't terrorist attacks?

 

I don't think so.

 

This is the one time I agree with Ibrahim.

One time.

[Nadir Aminu]

So the Jews use of white phosphorus in Gaza in the previous "war" and the recent slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza weren't terrorist attacks?

 

The Crusade declared by Bush against Afghanistan and Iraq and the millions of civilians they killed in those wars weren't terrorist attacks?

 

I don't think so.

Bush's attacks weren't motivated by religion.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

So the Jews use of white phosphorus in Gaza in the previous "war" and the recent slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza weren't terrorist attacks?

 

Israel is well known for reacting with severe force, out of proportion to the attacks on it's territory. I agree this is wrong of Israel but it does have to be asked why Hezbollah would continue to prod such a hornets nest. Hezbollah obviously don't give a gachu about the people they claim to fight for. There are better ways to seek better conditions for your people than war.

 

The Crusade declared by Bush against Afghanistan and Iraq and the millions of civilians they killed in those wars weren't terrorist attacks?

 

I don't think so.

If it was a Crusade it would be about religion. The attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan were much more to do with Oil and other resources that America wanted. George Bush acted like a spoilt brat and wouldn't take no for an answer. I agree that America did act like terrorists and that it was totally illegal.

I'm a student of comparative religion.

Ah so you have an overview of religions. When a Christian tells you that their religion doesn't work the same way as yours, it might be an idea to take note. Christians believe God to be complex and beyond human understanding, this isn't ridiculous, just based on a millennium of theology. Your attitude towards others on this forum leaves a great deal to be desired.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Bush's attacks weren't motivated by religion.

 

Israel is well known for reacting with severe force, out of proportion to the attacks on it's territory. I agree this is wrong of Israel but it does have to be asked why Hezbollah would continue to prod such a hornets nest. Hezbollah obviously don't give a gachu about the people they claim to fight for. There are better ways to seek better conditions for your people than war.

 

I think you mean Hamas, don't blame the victim, they are the ones being occupied and have every right to resist.

 

If it was a Crusade it would be about religion. The attacks on Iraq and Afghanistan were much more to do with Oil and other resources that America wanted. George Bush acted like a spoilt brat and wouldn't take no for an answer. I agree that America did act like terrorists and that it was totally illegal.

 

Thank you. Unfortunately that hasn't sunk in with a lot of people and America has already repeated their same mistakes with Obama invading 4 countries (x2 more than bush). Syria, Iraq (again), Yemen, and Libya.

 

Ah so you have an overview of religions. When a Christian tells you that their religion doesn't work the same way as yours, it might be an idea to take note. Christians believe God to be complex and beyond human understanding, this isn't ridiculous, just based on a millennium of theology. Your attitude towards others on this forum leaves a great deal to be desired.

 

I just don't find "It's a mystery" as a sufficient answer, it seems more like a cop-out answer to me, but I acknowledge that other may not share that same perspective.

 

This is the one time I agree with Ibrahim.

One time.

 

I'll take it.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Nadir Aminu]

 

 

I think you mean Hamas, don't blame the victim, they are the ones being occupied and have every right to resist.

 

 

Thank you. Unfortunately that hasn't sunk in with a lot of people and America has already repeated their same mistakes with Obama invading 4 countries (x2 more than bush). Syria, Iraq (again), Yemen, and Libya.

 

 

I just don't find "It's a mystery" as a sufficient answer, it seems more like a cop-out answer to me, but I acknowledge that other may not share that same perspective.

 

 

I'll take it.

I with you in the Israeli situation that Israel shouldn't be there and that Bush shouldn't interfere with foriegn countries and the same with Obama. Bush and Obama lead to the klling innocents. He didn't exactly say invading was for a religious reason.

http://www.e-ir.info/2015/03/09/one-war-many-reasons-the-us-invasion-of-iraq/

[Rozalia]

Well I'll take the victory (was it ever in doubt) as cowardly Ibrahim now no longer even dares to oppose me. I'd say gg, but you got massacred.

 

Again... why aren't you fighting with your heroes ISIS Ibrahim? They are according to you the only true Muslim's out there doing anything, and their state unlike all the rest is actually Muslim... surely a strong holy Muslim like yourself should be fighting the most holy Jihad against other Muslims disbelievers. You just a slimy coward who can talk his nonsense on the internet but can't back it up and go get blown up by Assad? Or maybe are you not quite as true a Muslim as you say and would get your head chopped off when you meet them?

 

I'm a student of comparative religion.

 

Who can't debate without co-opting others views (as you have no understanding yourself), and in their own religion is a fundamentalist to the point of supporting beheading and genocide. A student has an open mind, yours is as closed as it gets.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

Rozalia thinks winning a debate means insulting your opponent to the point where they stop responding to you lol. gg

[Nadir Aminu]

Rozalia thinks winning a debate means insulting your opponent to the point where they stop responding to you lol. gg

No, its when the  opponent goes to making comments like this.

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

I'd much rather talk about the issues at hand.

 

If you want to engage in a mud slinging contest...

 

 

on your own.

 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ibrahim

[Nadir Aminu]

Rozalia thinks winning a debate means insulting your opponent to the point where they stop responding to you lol. gg

 

I'd much rather talk about the issues at hand.

 

 

If you want to engage in a mud slinging contest... on your own.

 

Hypocrite.

[Robert Ap Ioan]

I think you mean Hamas, don't blame the victim, they are the ones being occupied and have every right to resist.

Victims who launch rockets, yeah right. You attack Russia for indiscriminate bombing, how about Hamas and Hezbollah? Or are you a hypocrite?

Thank you. Unfortunately that hasn't sunk in with a lot of people and America has already repeated their same mistakes with Obama invading 4 countries (x2 more than bush). Syria, Iraq (again), Yemen, and Libya.

Obama has put his troops in to enable peace keeping missions. It might have escaped your notice but IS and their friends have usurped the legitimate government in Iraq and escalated a civil war in Syria whilst committing crimes against humanity.