What genocides are okay to talk about? (Forum Decency Question)

[Smegmar]

So I am wondering if it is ok to talk about things involving racial ethnicity. Reading through forum rules and in game rules, something commonly coming up is not to make mention of Nazis or Adolph Hitler. My concern here is why is one genocide not okay to talk about, but I could talk about other genocides like the Armenian genocide where the Jews killed a bunch of innocent people. Hitler may have killed a bunch of "innocent Jewish" people but the Jewish people at the same time have on multiple occasions killed innocent people. As a matter of fact when Jesus resurrects again, you can ask all about how Jewish people kill the innocent. Lets not forget about Assyrian genocide or the Greek genocide which is more genocide with Jewish people leading it. I personally believe that you cannot disallow one thing such as Hitler's genocide, when the Jews themselves have committed multiple genocides themselves. If we are to be fair, we cannot allow any talk of genocide. This means now World War II genocide, no Assyrian Genocide, No Armenian Genocide, not Greek Genocide. You either allow all or allow none. You're playing favorites and it's very bigoted. It actually makes the game founder look like he is a Jewish person himself. Whether he is or not in an entirely different story that he can choose to discuss or not discuss with the people who play his game. If we are to establish "Forum Decency" we cannot disallow one thing but let the others pass. You are basically letting people get away with saying pretty messed up shit so long as they don't make mention of anything to do with Nazis. Nazis are like the scare word of this game, but it's a nation sim! How can you not expect someone to play as Adolph Hitler of Germany. It's like "OH MY GAWD! THAT F***ING A**HOLE JUST MADE MENTION OF NAZISM. WE BETTER DISH OUT A F***ING BAN! THAT F***ING SCUM BRINGING UP NAZIS! I OUTTA KILL ALL OF THE PEOPLE LIKE HIM." *Cough* Genocide *cough* You basically are justifying other genocides in the future by disallowing the mention of one so long as this particular genocide doesn't offend you. "Oh we should get rid of all of the stupid people" this would be genocide and that is commonly spoken out of the mouths of everyone so why is okay to say shit like that but the moment the word Nazi is mention "MOTHER****ER YOU'RE GOING TO HELL! F***ING DISSING ON JEWISH PEOPLE! You might as well wear a cape that says "Captain Jew Defender."

[Rudolph]

This post makes a great point, but it humorous at the same time. A for effort. <3

[Arthur Wellington]

what point are you trying to make?

- all genocides should be off limit (I agree, no entertainment RL big events)
- you want people to be allowed to have nazi related stuff on the forums/ingame?
- you think the game creator is a 'jew defender' and that is a bad thing?

[Rudolph]

what point are you trying to make?

 

- all genocides should be off limit (I agree, no entertainment RL big events)

- you want people to be allowed to have nazi related stuff on the forums/ingame?

- you think the game creator is a 'jew defender' and that is a bad thing?

Yes! Exactly! Go big or go home! Don't ban just one, ban all of them! If you think it's a bit extreme so is the overreaction to history on a nation sim. If I can talk about this genocide but not that one with nazis, it is clearly playing the favorites game and that stupid ass shit needs to stop. Either grow a back bone, or wave the censorship &#33;@#&#036; on everything.

[Lu Xun]

The closest I've been able to get to an underlying principle is that Politics And War is based in the United States and is run by a Montanan; i.e, it's easier to explain if we talk about stuff from (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) research.

 

Kevin Marks is based in Texas, and from what I've been able to gather is either a Christian or an Evangelical Christian. He lives in that kind of community. That's what I know; now the rest is speculation.

 

Let's say, he talks to his neighbors; they ask, what do you do? Oh, I'm a coder who makes internet games on occasion. He might show them the webpage of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways), and (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways) is "respectable", if in certain terms absurd. However, it could be far worse. Let's say the game has neo-Nazis posting around and it becomes obvious that it is a godless Hitler-worshiping religion; i.e, it's the internet game equivalent of Stormfront. Not saying it is, it's not, but just as a hypothetical.

 

Now, what kind of faces is Kevin Marks going to face when he goes to church? Is he going to be evicted by the local homeowners association?

 

That's how I made sense of (That terrible game that is totally irrelevant and I shouldn&#39;t be bringing it up anyways)'s moderation regime. You had certain limits, but that was because it was run by a man based in Texas who was likely an evangelical Christian. For instance, for the longest time, I had Kenji Doihara (the reasoning for maintaining him is more complex than you think), a war criminal who engaged in unconventional warfare in his subject territory, including encouraging opium addiction (and he was an opium addict himself), prostitution, and the torture and murder of dissidents, and was executed at the end of the war for his deeds, as an avatar. This was, incidentally, not offensive, even though it would be moderately offensive to Koreans and significantly offensive to Chinese.

 

The important thing is, it wouldn't be offensive to Americans, especially Americans of Marks' community.

 

With regards to Sheepy, apply the same model. He was in Montana, that was well-known, he's now somewhere else, some people know and some others don't know. What would be the personal repercussions if it were discovered that he ran a congregation for Nazis? What about pedophiles? Pornographers?

 

As to whether or not it's rational (i.e, perhaps the Nazi issue is a matter of free speech and it should consequently be protected) is only partially relevant, the pragmatics of it dominate. Sheepy at this point is vulnerable to certain aspects of his community, and the facade of respectability is necessary.

 

All of that said, I am drunk, and if I were not drunk I probably would not have mentioned the fact. Perhaps that is the best sentence of this post.

 

===

 

As an aside, I trolled an Israeli game dev with a Buddhist-themed nation that had a Buddhist swastika as a flag once. I was forced to change my flag (to a Chinese character whose meaning was essentially the same as the swasitka), but there was an uproar by friends over the "free-speech" issue. I have been on your side, and I have also been on the other side of the fence, so don't claim that I don't comprehend your side of the argument.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Inst

[Arthur Wellington]

well, I do think that flirting with nazi symbolism is increasing in games (bloc game is terrible, also with ISIS symbols and names) so I get that it receives more moderation attention then a less known genocide (hardly any asian peoples playing these kind of games). 

seems OP is trying to get a bit more nazism okayed and calling game creator + moderators jew defenders, These are seperate things I guess

Edited September 12, 2015 by Vivke

[stetonic]

You do understand that the nazi's did more than kill jews.They effected the lives of people around the world.So i think that is the reason its banned over just one thing they did

[Ibrahim (Banned)]

May I point out an obvious fact that is missing from this thread: The Jews are actively committing Nazi like genocide against the Palestinian people (while you read this sentence)!

 

So I do believe this whole genocide "favouritism" (if that's even a thing) to be a little absurd and the facts that countless other genocides are simply overlooked as outrageous. Must it be pointed out that the lives of Jews are not in any way more valuable than that of say Chinese/Palestinian/Greek people or any other people for that matter. We can do as the OP said and ban all disussions of genocides or we could stop being childish... lift the whole censorship thing and monitor people so they don't go overboard (i.e no glorifying genocide). I remember getting a warn for making what was essentially an Anti-Nazisim post, which shows how ridiculously overboard the censorship is when it comes to "Nazi Symbolism".

 

If you are going to ban the swastika then I would suggest also banning the Israeli flag and a case can also be made for that of the USA/Britain/France etc.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Ibrahim

[MRBOOTY]

May I point out an obvious fact that is missing from this thread: The Jews are actively committing Nazi like genocide against the Palestinian people (while you read this sentence)!

 

Israel has been responsible for 50,000 Arab deaths, almost all of which are the result of the racist surrounding countries attacking Israel because it is a Jewish state. Israel has not tried to kill Palestinians in the same way that Saudi Arabia, Iran, and every other shithole has attacked gays, women, and minorities. Arab regimes are responsible for the deaths of millions of Kurds, Christians, and minorities. You're right, no lives matter more than others.

 

Just because you're a winy little &#33;@#&#036; that thinks that he's a victim does not mean that you get to claim people like you are more important than others.

 

Also, it's clear you support ISIS. Why don't you go join? People like you (racist Islamic extremists, not Muslims in general) are already making the UK a shithole. Why not move?

 

I actually spend a lot of time defending Muslims and Arabs in real life and online, and people like you don't make it easier tbh.

Edited September 13, 2015 by MRBOOTY

[Alex]

I'll just put this to rest right now. You're not really wrong in the original OP, I agree that all genocides are bad, etc. I'm also all for free speech - I don't wish to stifle discussion. That's why there's no bans on discussing general war crimes and things, although if you start advocating for genocide/illegal activity around here, you won't be around real long.

 

The reason we have a ban on nazism and related topics is because there are lots of neo-nazis groups around, particularly online. Those people have come to P&W before, and that's why we have the ban on Nazism - to root them out. I (and the community in general) don't want to see neo-nazi propaganda all over the website, and so we don't tolerate or allow it here. It's that simple. We don't have that issue with other groups, and that's why they're not specifically banned. If we saw, say, a rising KKK alliance that posted horrible images and propaganda all over the site and forums, you might see a rule change to specifically forbid anything related to the Ku Klux Klan as well. However, for whatever reason, there is a large (relatively speaking) group of neo-Nazis online and interested in games like this, but not for other genocidal groups. That's all there is to it.