Aquinas Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I am wanting to debate the issue of minimum wage with someone, this debate will be turn based with a one on one system. My stance: I agree with increasing minimum wage to 10-15 dollars an hour. EDIT: I am looking for someone to debate with in another thread, not this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Logically minimum wage should be raised to take into account inflation and standards of living. 1 Quote "A templar knight is truly a fearless knight, and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith, just as his body is protected by the armor of steel. He is thus doubly-armed, and need not fear neither demons nor men." http://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Fifths Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wages causes inflation simply because it increases the amount companies have to pay their employees which in turn increases the amount that businesses have to sell their services which leads to inflation overall in the market which leads to more debates about minimum wage increases. 1 Quote "In an honest service there is thin commons, low wages, and hard labor; in this, plenty and satiety, pleasure and ease, liberty and power; and who would not balance creditor on this side, when all the hazard that is run for it, at worst, is only a sour look or two at choking. No, a merry life and a short one, shall be my motto." - Bartholomew "Black Bart" Roberts Green Enforcement Agency will rise again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wages causes inflation simply because it increases the amount companies have to pay their employees which in turn increases the amount that businesses have to sell their services which leads to inflation overall in the market which leads to more debates about minimum wage increases. Yeah, printing money in billions doesn't increase inflation at all. Its those damn minimum wages. Quote "A templar knight is truly a fearless knight, and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith, just as his body is protected by the armor of steel. He is thus doubly-armed, and need not fear neither demons nor men." http://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Fifths Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wages causes inflation simply because it increases the amount companies have to pay their employees which in turn increases the amount that businesses have to sell their services which leads to inflation overall in the market which leads to more debates about minimum wage increases.Yeah, printing money in billions doesn't increase inflation at all. Its those damn minimum wages. That's called QE and that's for a different debate. This is about minimum wages. Stick to the topic at hand. Quote "In an honest service there is thin commons, low wages, and hard labor; in this, plenty and satiety, pleasure and ease, liberty and power; and who would not balance creditor on this side, when all the hazard that is run for it, at worst, is only a sour look or two at choking. No, a merry life and a short one, shall be my motto." - Bartholomew "Black Bart" Roberts Green Enforcement Agency will rise again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMelvin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Based off inflation, it should be like $9.40 by now, I especially wouldn't mind the nice bump in my check if it was $10.10, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldwin Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wages causes inflation simply because it increases the amount companies have to pay their employees which in turn increases the amount that businesses have to sell their services which leads to inflation overall in the market which leads to more debates about minimum wage increases.Yeah, printing money in billions doesn't increase inflation at all. Its those damn minimum wages. That's called QE and that's for a different debate. This is about minimum wages. Stick to the topic at hand. I love how you bring up minimum wage as a cause for inflation as an argument against that minimum wage should be adjusted to meet inflation. But then call the opposition for being off topic when they point out printing money causes inflation, not minimum wage. Way to argue your case. Quote "A templar knight is truly a fearless knight, and secure on every side, for his soul is protected by the armor of faith, just as his body is protected by the armor of steel. He is thus doubly-armed, and need not fear neither demons nor men." http://politicsandwar.com/alliance/id=120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hao Huiyu Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 That's called QE and that's for a different debate. This is about minimum wages. Stick to the topic at hand.QE is not printing money. Quote First nation to 1,000 NS First nation to 2,000 NS First nation to 3,000 NS First nation to 4,000 NS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wage should not be increased because it does lead to inflation.$7.25 per hour is current minimum wage.So if the guy that owns and milks the cows gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that delivers the milk gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that bottles the milk, and the guy that ships the bottled milk, and the guy at the store that sells the milk get the nearly $3.00 pay increase, then that milk will need to be sold at a higher price so that the company in charge of that system will continue to make a profit. Printing money would also cause inflation, but that is not the topic at hand. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolores Abernathy Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Someone whose sole purpose in life is to ask me 'would you like fries with that' does not deserve to make 30K a year. 1 Quote Hullo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 Still looking for someone to debate me. If you think you will be able to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Fifths Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 op topic = minimum wage Side effect of minimum age = inflation Printing money = inflation Op topic is still minimum wage. Quote "In an honest service there is thin commons, low wages, and hard labor; in this, plenty and satiety, pleasure and ease, liberty and power; and who would not balance creditor on this side, when all the hazard that is run for it, at worst, is only a sour look or two at choking. No, a merry life and a short one, shall be my motto." - Bartholomew "Black Bart" Roberts Green Enforcement Agency will rise again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Alex Posted January 30, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 30, 2014 EDIT: I am looking for someone to debate with in another thread, not this one. Too bad, so sad. ___________________ The topic of debate, as I understand it, is Resolved: Federal minimum wage ought to be increased. "I do not support raising the minimum wage, and the reason is as follows. When the minimum wage is raised, workers are priced out of the market. That is the economic reality that seems, at least so far, to be missing from this discussion." - John Sununu Mr. Sununu is absolutely correct, when minimum wage is increased companies have to pay more out to their workers and thus have to charge more for their products. Increasing the minimum wage will result in lost jobs and at the end of the day won't actually help anyone. Many supporters of an increased minimum wage suggest it would decrease unemployment and solve many problems. However, a study by David Card and Alan Krueger showed a 4.6% decrease in employment in New Jersey vs Pennsylvania in 1992 when New Jersey increased its minimum wage. Why does this happen? Well it should be pretty clear that raising the minimum wage only hurts those with minimum wage paying jobs. If you think about a business and how much it pays its employees, anyone getting paid under the new minimum wage is going to lose their job or have a lot more work to do. It quickly becomes cheaper to automate some of the manual labor instead of paying someone to do it and if you can automate the process you save money in the long term. This means you could charge less as a business and any competitors that don't automate are going to fall behind and go bankrupt. All of the managers and "higher ups" aren't going to lose their jobs or take a pay cut, instead you just hurt the group of people you were actually trying to help. 1 Quote Is there a bug? Report It | Not understanding game mechanics? Ask About It | Got a good idea? Suggest ItForums Rules | Game Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I look forward to Aquinas trouncing Sheepy in this debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyrewwer Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll go if you want :-) I live in a country with stability, low inflation and no minimum wage... (Switzerland) so I think I am in a fairly good position to argue... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy BushMan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I'll go if you want :-) I live in a country with stability, low inflation and no minimum wage... (Switzerland) so I think I am in a fairly good position to argue... Last time I checked your country sells banks, with money in them, for people to live in. I'm sure if you guys had minimum wage you could handle any amount. Quote Glory to the divine bush for he protects. When evil flies over head in his bombers, he will not see targets, only bushes. When his army of darkness comes to harm you, they shall get lost in the endless bush. The bush loves you, as you love the bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy BushMan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wage should not be increased because it does lead to inflation. $7.25 per hour is current minimum wage. So if the guy that owns and milks the cows gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that delivers the milk gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that bottles the milk, and the guy that ships the bottled milk, and the guy at the store that sells the milk get the nearly $3.00 pay increase, then that milk will need to be sold at a higher price so that the company in charge of that system will continue to make a profit. Printing money would also cause inflation, but that is not the topic at hand. I'm pretty sure if the guy owns and milks the cow he's making whatever he sells it for, and I'm pretty sure truck drivers don't work on hourly rates, and if they do it's not minimum wage. But I could be wrong. Quote Glory to the divine bush for he protects. When evil flies over head in his bombers, he will not see targets, only bushes. When his army of darkness comes to harm you, they shall get lost in the endless bush. The bush loves you, as you love the bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePaul Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Minimum wage should not be increased because it does lead to inflation. $7.25 per hour is current minimum wage. So if the guy that owns and milks the cows gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that delivers the milk gets paid $10 instead of $7.25, and the guy that bottles the milk, and the guy that ships the bottled milk, and the guy at the store that sells the milk get the nearly $3.00 pay increase, then that milk will need to be sold at a higher price so that the company in charge of that system will continue to make a profit. Printing money would also cause inflation, but that is not the topic at hand. I'm pretty sure if the guy owns and milks the cow he's making whatever he sells it for, and I'm pretty sure truck drivers don't work on hourly rates, and if they do it's not minimum wage. But I could be wrong. Your right about the cow owner, and that should not have said owner. And the truck drivers don't make minimum wage, but they make below the proposed minimum wage increase. Quote DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREE! YOU ARE A PIRATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Increasing the minimum wage does cause inflation, but it causes less inflation than the proportional increase in wages, because not everybody works for minimum wage (or even below the new minimum). Further, increased wages increases spending, which increases the demand for products, which will cause firms to increase supply. Increasing supply requires increasing productivity or increasing the workforce. Still, Sheepy's arguments are not unreasonable. It may be that a better solution than increasing the minimum wage would be increasing the availability of government benefits, ensuring that everyone who is willing to work full-time (whether or not there are jobs available for them) has enough income to support themselves (and, perhaps, one other person). This way cyclical job loss doesn't hurt national consumption, which would help to moderate the effects of recessions and and even prevent some recessions from occurring. This may lead to an increase in longterm unemployment, because it makes unemployment somewhat less painful, and it would lead to some inflation simply because there will be more money available for spending, thus increasing demand for goods and services, but it would have a smaller effect on the price of goods and services, because it would not increase the cost of providing those goods and services. Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereno Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Increasing the minimum wage does cause inflation, but it causes less inflation than the proportional increase in wages, because not everybody works for minimum wage (or even below the new minimum). Further, increased wages increases spending, which increases the demand for products, which will cause firms to increase supply. Increasing supply requires increasing productivity or increasing the workforce. Still, Sheepy's arguments are not unreasonable. It may be that a better solution than increasing the minimum wage would be increasing the availability of government benefits, ensuring that everyone who is willing to work full-time (whether or not there are jobs available for them) has enough income to support themselves (and, perhaps, one other person). This way cyclical job loss doesn't hurt national consumption, which would help to moderate the effects of recessions and and even prevent some recessions from occurring. This may lead to an increase in longterm unemployment, because it makes unemployment somewhat less painful, and it would lead to some inflation simply because there will be more money available for spending, thus increasing demand for goods and services, but it would have a smaller effect on the price of goods and services, because it would not increase the cost of providing those goods and services. Alternatively, the government stops subsidizing ridiculously low wages and the multinational conglomerates pay their employees what they're actually deserving of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy BushMan Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Increasing the minimum wage does cause inflation, but it causes less inflation than the proportional increase in wages, because not everybody works for minimum wage (or even below the new minimum). Further, increased wages increases spending, which increases the demand for products, which will cause firms to increase supply. Increasing supply requires increasing productivity or increasing the workforce. While this is true in theory, it's not so much in practice. I've had plenty of minimum wage jobs, and some that pay slightly above minimum wage, and 5/6 of those jobs would use every little thing as an excuse to raise prices. Before I moved from Maryland the 7/11 I worked at bumped up most prices because they were debating minimum wage, even though every employee worked above the current minimum. The only one who didn't change prices at the drop of a hat was Gamestop cause they weren't allowed to. They just fired and transferred people. Quote Glory to the divine bush for he protects. When evil flies over head in his bombers, he will not see targets, only bushes. When his army of darkness comes to harm you, they shall get lost in the endless bush. The bush loves you, as you love the bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquinas Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I look forward to Aquinas trouncing Sheepy in this debate. I will indeed trounce him. CHALLENGE ACCEPTED SHEEP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grillick Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Increasing the minimum wage does cause inflation, but it causes less inflation than the proportional increase in wages, because not everybody works for minimum wage (or even below the new minimum). Further, increased wages increases spending, which increases the demand for products, which will cause firms to increase supply. Increasing supply requires increasing productivity or increasing the workforce. While this is true in theory, it's not so much in practice. I've had plenty of minimum wage jobs, and some that pay slightly above minimum wage, and 5/6 of those jobs would use every little thing as an excuse to raise prices. Before I moved from Maryland the 7/11 I worked at bumped up most prices because they were debating minimum wage, even though every employee worked above the current minimum. The only one who didn't change prices at the drop of a hat was Gamestop cause they weren't allowed to. They just fired and transferred people. Your anecdotal evidence does not establish your point (because anecdotal evidence is not statistically relevant), nor would your point refute my statement. The fact that small businesses raise prices in response to increases (or even threatened increases) in the minimum wage neither proves nor disproves the statement that the increase in prices will be smaller proportionally than the increase in the minimum wage. To offer another anecdotal illustration, I worked at a short-order restaurant in Albuquerque from 2002 to 2009. In 2007, Albuquerque raised the minimum wage in the city. In response, the restaurant I worked at (even though the starting pay for a new employee has already higher than the new minimum wage) increased the starting pay for new employees by an amount equal to the dollar value of the increase in minimum wage. In addition, prices on every item increased by $0.05 to $1.00. A $2.00 increase in the minimum wage represented a 40% increase over the federal minimum wage. The $2.00 increase in the starting wage for new hires represented a 25% increase over the previous wage for new hires. The increase in prices was approximately 2-4%. Quote "It's hard to be a team player when you're omnipotent." - Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadin The First Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Someone whose sole purpose in life is to ask me 'would you like fries with that' does not deserve to make 30K a year. Everyone who works full-time deserves a decent wage. "“No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country†- FDR 1 Quote "In periods where there is no leadership, society stands still. Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better." - Harry S. Truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archduke Hintergardt Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I can debate you if you'd like. I live in NJ and firsthand know that it's a load of crap, so I'd like to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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