CALL FOR NU&U TREATY

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Do I want some asshat to tell me how to play an internet browser game? Stop invading my internet safe space with your bullshit form of oversight.

 

Buy more food then. Make more food then. If you seriously give a crap about small nations, be a doll and buy them food too, which I highly doubt you would make the effort.

 

Oooh, so I have to buy more food, and help the small nations you !@#$ed over on my dime, because you want to fire nukes? In which world are you living mate? Do you even convince yourself?

 

- You can buy and use nukes. That's allowed by the game. But it hurts everyone else.

- Then everyone else has a right to attack you. Whether you stop buying and using nukes is up to you. But others are *perfectly* within their rights to stop you from inflicting harm on them and everyone else.

 

If you cannot comprehend this single fact, I would suggest a brain transplant. Have a good day now, "asshat."

[Kemal Ergenekon]

The nation in question, TEG, did in fact join us during this war, and was accepted and given necessary food and aid to tide him over during it. Doesn't challenge what I said though, he found us on his own and applied. We do not actively send out recruitment messages or otherwise try and gain new members at any time, war or otherwise.

 

As far as whales go...I didn't realize having 13-15 cities made you a whale now? The largest nation in our alliance has 18 cities, and he stands a full head and shoulders over the next largest (or did in peacetime before everybody was bombed out). I'll call him a whale, but I think its stretching it to refer to much of the rest of SK as such, unless we are counting the entire top 500 as whales. My nation has only existed for 6 months and I'm rapidly closing in on that territory. These nations aren't small, obviously, nobody is trying to claim otherwise. But its incredibly disingenuous to claim some conspiracy by the top players to keep down newbies for...what exactly? I don't even know. Selling food? Maybe some people who had large stockpiles are cashing in (and I see people selling from many different AAs across the spectrum), but after this war its going to get you nowhere. Established alliances will start buying large quantities when prices go down again, and these newbies would never be able to buy in any kind of quantity for it to matter, even at 300 ppu if it ever gets there.

 

Whether you agree with it or not, many alliances seem to place real tactical value on having nuclear weapons. They aren't opposed to this out of some idiotic desire to make money off overpriced food nobody will ever buy when the war is over. If we are going to have to bear the burden of balancing Sheepys game for him, there are better ways to do it, like just sending food to all the nations in need like the food aid Floof Floof started. How hard would it be for the mass recruiting AAs to have their recruiters or bots or whatever send out food relief messages instead during wartime? We haven't recruited in ages but I remember going through a page of nations in 2 minutes, its not hard.

 

You can cry about negative externalties all you want. War has negative externalities. Raiding is the complete embodiment of a negative externality. How many micros or new players get driven from this game because of it? Is a micro founded by a few 3 month old nations less deserving then these new players? Is it not natural, when you first start an mmo or similar type game, to want to create your own guild with some friends? Yeah its a bad idea here, but how many alliances have stepped up to offer them guidance or negotiate on their behalf if they get raided? You might be too big to counter them but you aren't too big to threaten their alliance. Where was the attempt to create an international organization to enforce rules on that, like this nuclear treaty? Maybe you had your reasons, but you should understand the skepticism when this abundant care for new players springs up out of nowhere.

 

Keep advocating for the treaty or the league or whatever you want. Its politics, its part of the game and these conversations are always worth having, success or no. But spare us the histrionics, its embarrassing.

 

Are we going to argue about the semantics of what constitutes huge nations now? That's grasping at straws.

 

Here is my well-defined hypothesis then: I claim that the nations that have NRF in Orbis have 50% more infra on average than the nations that have no NRF.

 

Proving or disproving this statement would require calculating the total infra of people with nukes, then calculating the total infra of people in general. You are free to collect your data and disprove my statement.

 

No one is talking about a conspiracy, mate. I am simply talking about a negative externality. It is similar to "the Tragedy of the Commons" (look it up). Basically, having an NRF and firing nukes is individually rational for some players, and their Nash best response, but the resulting Nash Equilibrium with zero coordination results in a Pareto suboptimal result for the sum of all players. The solution is global coordination to prevent the excessive use of nukes. No conspiracy, simple economics.

 

The rest of the post is built on your false premise, and needs no answering.

[Doktor Avalanche]

Oooh, so I have to buy more food, and help the small nations you !@#$ed over on my dime, because you want to fire nukes? In which world are you living mate? Do you even convince yourself?

 

- You can buy and use nukes. That's allowed by the game. But it hurts everyone else.

- Then everyone else has a right to attack you. Whether you stop buying and using nukes is up to you. But others are *perfectly* within their rights to stop you from inflicting harm on them and everyone else.

 

If you cannot comprehend this single fact, I would suggest a brain transplant. Have a good day now, "asshat."

It is the right of everyone to do so, I completely agree. There is hope for you yet! 

 

EDIT: Kemal, I agree that the whole output of fallout on food sucks. I agree it hurts everybody. However I do not agree that some mutual collective coercion is going to be effective in a game such as this. At best the fallout is going to be used as a tool or strategy by some nations each war and some collective which fights it will be under constant assault, for the "good of the game".

Edited September 22, 2016 by Lo Pan

[Calvin Coolidge]

More nukes need to fall

[William Mannax]

How much will you pay my alliance annually to commit to these terms?  

 

We're not a charity. We certainly won't spare the world from nuclear holocaust for free.  

Edited September 22, 2016 by William Mannax

[George Clooney]

If some alliances are at all concerned about new players as they claim they are, then they would demand an end to all raiding of nations less than 30 days old, would offer free food to nations in need during times of high radiation, and would use teachable moments for new players as teachable moments and not as opportunities to snicker and troll. 

 

The first one will never happen.  The third one will never happen without a major culture change which is unlikely.  The second one though would only require a neutral alliance that can be trusted to collect and hold a few million in donated Food and then distribute it to small nations in need regardless of their affiliation (think international aid agency).

 

Work on that.  I'd support it.

Edited September 22, 2016 by George Clooney

[Kemal Ergenekon]

It is the right of everyone to do so, I completely agree. There is hope for you yet! 

 

EDIT: Kemal, I agree that the whole output of fallout on food sucks. I agree it hurts everybody. However I do not agree that some mutual collective coercion is going to be effective in a game such as this. At best the fallout is going to be used as a tool or strategy by some nations each war and some collective which fights it will be under constant assault, for the "good of the game".

 

I agree with what you said. I will still try to lower the use of nukes, though. I mean, the game is boring during the interbellum periods anyway, so I think it will provide enjoyment even if the goal is not reached.

[Kemal Ergenekon]

If some alliances are at all concerned about new players as they claim they are, then they would demand an end to all raiding of nations less than 30 days old, would offer free food to nations in need during times of high radiation, and would use teachable moments for new players as teachable moments and not as opportunities to snicker and troll. 

 

The first one will never happen.  The third one will never happen without a major culture change which is unlikely.  The second one though would only require a neutral alliance that can be trusted to collect and hold a few million in donated Food and then distribute it to small nations in need regardless of their affiliation (think international aid agency).

 

Work on that.  I'd support it.

 

The first one is impossible because of the score rules. We could yell all we want to stop raiding new players, but it is only possible if we send down submarine nations of our own. Which I wouldn't mind financing, but finding actives who will willingly become submarine nations is hard. People want to be where the action is.

 

The second one can definitely be done, and I would be willing to contribute financially to such an arrangement if it can be trusted.

 

I didn't get the last point. Are you talking about newbies being laughed at when they ask questions?

[George Clooney]

 

I didn't get the last point. Are you talking about newbies being laughed at when they ask questions?

 

Laughed at, deliberately given horrible advise, mocked, and worse at times.  We should be encouraging their participation.  After all, don't some of the more infamous the "veteran players" provide enough comic gold to satisfy us all?

[Kemal Ergenekon]

Laughed at, deliberately given horrible advise, mocked, and worse at times.  We should be encouraging their participation.  After all, don't some of the more infamous the "veteran players" provide enough comic gold to satisfy us all?

 

I can agree with that. Though the enforcement of that is the domain of the mods, not us.