Etat

With the current push to improve engagement on the forum I believe a way to resist threads being derailed by dubious posts might be to have them visibly flagged within the thread for all potential contributors to see. An accompanying rule or advice that all posts under mod investigation should not be commented on. I don't think hiding the post is a good idea though unless it's grossly inappropriate (which I thought happened anyway). The intent behind this is to reign in threads that result in pages of accusations of appeasement/vicarious guilt which I think is a significant cause of thread derailment.

I agree with your first post, and with parts of your second. We live in a time where fairness in all things is seen as a right, and people are extraordinarily hypersensitive to any perceived slight, with the basis for these potential slights innumerable. Consequently people will jump into any opportunity to rant and rave about a slur, whether it's aimed to them or not. The subsequent degradation of threads is a disincentive to engage for the many, and an incentive to engage for the toxic few. We only have to influence Orbis though, not the whole world. Also, given that it is a relatively smaller number of players that actually post on the OWF, we only need their buy-in to alter the tone in a positive way. Adrienne's ideas are a great start, and Alex might consider some structural changes to promote a healthy OWF such as posts that have been reported for moderation being visibly flagged with people encouraged to refrain from commenting on them until the issues are resolved.

Agreed. I think that taking FA and much of the other significant interactions away from the OWF has inadvertently alienated the majority of Orbisans/Orbizens from the machinations that make the game tick. Way to kill engagement in the game and leave the decision making with the same people still moaning about KF.

Reading glasses deployed and playback speed of 0.5 is the only way to view this video

From my limited perspective, I think your theme is on the money, if a little heavy handed in the detail. If NPO is heroin, then t$ is codeine (relatively benign but still bungs you up with poo).

Hahaha you've managed to unpack quite a bit out of my latest brainfart 😉 But of course I forget myself, not everyone is as fortunate as myself as to be graced with intelligence, good-looks and the ability to impress with my farts. 👈 go on, you know you want to pull it

Oh, our last war was supposedly all about game health too! I mean it wasn't really, but it was in your DoW. I guess I just detect a theme with how you guys are trying to market your actions. Chill is good though OPF really just a tongue in cheek comment

Is t$ the new Orbis Police Force wearing the righteous badge of game-health and re-imagining history for us all?

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No yelling here my friend nor any hard feelings or grudges for past grievances! Certainly I didn't detect anything in your post about poaching, but others have suggested it unless I misread ofc. As for bandwagonning...lol...this is a public forum for the public. If you wanted to open a chat about your issue that only those directly involved can participate in, perhaps go somewhere else 🤷‍♂️ Really all I've done is respond to some curious posts made by some, I'll not self-censor on your whim today. As an aside, I am certainly happy to stand corrected on any details you feel have been misrepresented, but in reality it doesn't change anything... I am glad you are still playing and doing your thing, and totally without malice, am equally as glad that you are no longer in TKR. Enjoy your war and good luck 👍

This is what makes us so special and beloved I assume you are aware of TKR's loving regard for Changeup, and the details of his respectful departure from our warm and cuddly bosom? Quite literally the funniest thing I've read all day Never change Firwof, never change... Ben is the most continent man I know! Boom boom, shake shake the room!! Changeup complaining about someone poaching is the second funniest thing I've read today hahaha I do believe I've not seen such a humorous quip for at least a few of your posts Indeed For the record @Changeup I care not for your reasons, good post though and enjoy

@Vemek I believe pertinent intel is that which should be shared. It didn't concern you because, you know, you were imminently splitting from us, and the intel was pertinent to the future members of HW at a future date beyond the timeline of our split. Of course I don't make these decisions, but this seems a fairly sensible position to me. I don't really mind the lies, or at best the misrepresentation of the truth....we'd have nothing else to talk about otherwise. And lastly, if all you can read from my posts is 'we're right and you're wrong', I shall exercise some compassion for your overburdened mind and ping you no more

The notion you've expressed that TKR might have avoided this war is clearly nonsense. It is apparent that you've fully intended to act against us from the beginning. You complaining that we didn't advert to you our plans after you issued your intent to exit our sphere is ridiculous. Retrospectively it is quite apparent that not keeping you informed was the right choice; the importance you've assigned to your own designs for the whale/upper tier is apparently to be achieved by any means, even burning your capital with TKR. That you care less for this speaks more of the value you held for our relationship than it does against TKR, and suggests a systemic pathology in your reasoning and mindset. You may take note of this and reflect, however I guess most megalomaniacs are blind to the signs everyone else can see. It follows that by TKR not occupying a subservient role to you, not bowing to your apparent expectation to respect and facilitate your plans against Grumpy, and finally by hitting Rose against your wishes (the final straw it seems) that yes I can see now that war was at least on the cards. Regarding your long standing opposition against Grumpy; you are dissembling when legitimizing your actions using terms like 'hegemon' and 'whale tier domination'. Your PR is a veneer thin disguise over what I believe to be the real issue(s) evidenced in the tone of your subsequent posts: probably interpersonal, maybe justifiable in a historical context, but mostly a seeming desire to dominate (or more charitably, to at least not be dominated by) the whale and upper tiers. t$ PR claims contained in your treatise including 'Game Health', and security concerns engendered by the counter militarization of HW should be considered well and truly debunked. Not only are the actual numbers and the nature of the game meta contrary to your claims, the explicit messages, tones and themes contained in your responses here give falsity to your official line. Ben's attempts at communication were in vain because this "war was inevitable". And @Eumirbago are you kidding??? The only alliance I guess however you guys are taking steps to resolve the political stagnation that irks you so.

You know there’s bits here that I don’t disagree with, mainly about your rant concerning politics. I too think that the general commitment to rp over my relatively short tenure in Orbis has waned, and possibly has had a knock on effect in that the potentiality of creating complex, ideological, political and economic machinations is currently a bit lame. But what can you do?? I do not think a commitment to rp with its associated effort is everyone’s cup of tea. Certainly it means less to me at an individual performance level than I think it does to you. Imo you’re (we’re) kinda stuck with the folk who are playing right now, and valid though it may be, bemoaning the absence of characters who brought (or might bring) great rp, colour and conflict is as worthwhile as getting upset by a change in the wind. I do hope you get your wish in this however. As for the rest, well I’m sure there’s nothing I can say to distract you from that enormous crowd of 27 dastardly, game dominating whales whose words you simply cannot ignore. Perhaps trimming down GG’s profits for a war or two will change the meta in favour of t$ whale tier 🤷‍♂️, but I think not in favour of ‘game health’ in general per the narrative in your treatise (which is my chief contention). IMO neither GG’s numbers, nor SRD’s remarks signify to the extent of justification for a GW (personally I don’t mind war - win or lose, but I’m obliged to challenge your reasoning), nor indeed is your suggestion that it may have been avoided with communication…it takes two to tango, and it appears Ben got stood up.

t$ yet to make a viable argument that GG 'objectively' negatively influences the game meta though. Change my(our) mind with actual data or something if you can (you've created a GW so I think it a reasonable request). Here is my current take: GG whale tier has no significant impact on the meta for anyone but yourselves by virtue of creating a psychological glass ceiling for your own whales and upper tier - the vast majority of the rest of Orbis are out of their reach. I mean Grumpy's smallest 2 nations of 29 & 30 cities at pre-war levels could only have reached <10% of Orbis that have been active in the last week (7245), their 3rd smallest nation <6%, and so on upwards with their average nation score per nation limiting their to reach <1% of Orbis. I know this is not really a good way to look at it for exactness, however I only need a ballpark to make my point. Also their spread of scores across all 27 nations (watch out....such a horde!!) would pretty much isolate the majority of them from each other in terms of the mutual support during war such that your alliance enjoys across the majority of the tiers you occupy. Indeed in this instance it is a logical step to grow as a defensive measure, because there is little other option without looking to allies. If you just want to hit them for your own reasons, personal or economic, then it'd be much easier and credible to say so rather than misrepresenting yourselves as some sort of benevolent and 'game health' -centric actors. The rest of it at this stage is pretty much unverifiable noise right now, you in essence asking the rest of us to take your word on the content of your private discussions. As an aside, I suspect a much earlier plan with Rose than has been suggested as they didn't appear to fully rebuild since our last tango. You might see TKR's full rebuild as a sign of peaceful intent and a show of good faith, particularly after the laughable white peace that was provided. I guess you give someone and inch and they take a mile.

Not being familiar with your history of issues with Grumpy, I will for sake of discussion assume your purity of intent to contribute to 'game health'. Yes of course we all look to improve game health, though it seems to me (and analogous to RL - sim or what hey??) one does not achieve it without a certain degree of consensus about: a. what the issues are that are in need of addressing, and b. how said issues are to be addressed. It appears to me that neither of these points have been suitably addressed, even if you've attempted to, at least not in public. I don't consider Rose joining in as contributing to any sort of majority consensus due to the muddying effect of the much more recent history of tit-for-tat between us, nor it being mentioned in their somewhat empty DoW (for now the only issue I see with this paucity of substance is that it does nothing to contribute to moving forwards in what is quickly becoming a fairly stale and predictable relationship - hardly contributing to 'game health'). Anyway I'm not here to dump on Rose, was happy that the last war had created some sort of balance to recent history. As for half of the alliances having no way to combat Grumpy, well they've no reason to! It's not like Grumpy has the ability to militarily dominate the vast majority of players, the meta prevents this. Grumpy does their thing which clearly impacts t$ as a competitor, but to assume that GG dominance of the upper/whale tiers is an Orbis wide issue massively impacting on 'game health' ought be convincingly demonstrated should it be seen as a valid component of your CB. Somewhat following this, I'm also aware that people have argued the dogpile in this instance was unnecessary and damaging and whatever other reasons. I'm not fundamentally against dogpiling, a valid tactic to accomplish an end goal and I guess in this instance it marries well with your stated outcome of 'game health' by reducing the power of a consolidated whale tier, and hopefully quickly. Though I suggest that the potentiality of other less clear motives driving this war will become more likely the longer it carries on, and I look forward to seeing it play out. I cannot really determine the verity of much of what else you're stating here as it is rapidly turning into a case of the devil being in the detail embedded in embassies and private chats. I'm not calling you dishonest, however I know both Ben and Cooper to be of great integrity (Cooper knows me to be quite argumentative, but he absolutely has my support and respect as one of our FA leads). Ultimately I strongly suspect there may be something else at play here yet to be elucidated which has driven such a rapid breakdown in IC relations and a GW between our such recently allied alliances. Have a great day

It burnt us all my friend, some much more than others certainly. Having arrived during Surfs Up I had not much to lose in the way of friends, but what little I did enjoy was still very much on the line. The NPO of 2019 and onwards left an indelible notion of what I can and should rail against, and a tendency towards a little hypersensitivity perhaps, also clear in your response. You are due more respect than perhaps I've implied (a clear failure of tone on my part), and I'll reign in my hints at an NPO likeness as unsuitable for the now; I'd not have you think I believe you lot fit that mould.

I'm happy to expound upon my reasons as time allows. 1. I'm not challenging your issues with GG. But don't make the mistake of thinking everyone cares, or that your issues should be everyones. 2. HW militarizing in response to BW is a normal precautionary evolution; you put the cart before the horse to use our militarization as an excuse, especially since our reasons were clear and represented to you while trying to deescalate things. 3. You trying to paint yourselves as aggrieved in any way by our split to then use it as a reason to suspect our motives is, as far as I'm aware, fully manufactured to support your current agenda. TKR was not interested in war, but I guess you can't have your PR machine's audience believe that can you? Perhaps instead of doubling down on your own narrative and introducing red herrings left and right, you might perhaps try to tell us why you think your HW militarization argument (significantly after you militarized) is substantial enough to make it into this treatise? You might ridicule and dismiss my reasons instead, I'm starting to expect no less tbh.

Calm friend I did try to generalize to your other members rather than pin it all on you, so if you've personally been misrepresented, I apologize. It might be surprising to know that I too have a memory, and have not so fond ones of NPO doing exactly what I stated in my previous post. As for mentioning yours and others history in NPO...yet another red herring. I am talking about the NPOLT NPO, the one we both fought together. Any attempt at drumming up support against my position on that front is baseless. You might read back through this thread and identify some of your colleagues responses to some of of ours; dismissive, ridiculing and not inclined to discuss in the least, intimating that because one is not FA has no place joining in...well that is what the gov back channels of communication are for (which afaik you seem to have ignored). I'm not bothered how long you've been playing this game, I'll challenge that nonsense.

I appreciate your response! But despite your words, you've only confirmed my position...you've long term issues with GG (I'm not challenging any justification you might have), and you've manufactured a weak reason for bringing in Rose and creating yet another global war to scratch that itch. The rest of what you're dredging up about minispheres, though perhaps pertinent in your head and influential in how you perceive TKR, is pretty much a red herring to the issue in question.

The presence (or not), and the quality of any proffered CB is I think primarily a reflection of the politics and leaders of the day. Being a game, these things ideally ought to be manufactured to the extent that it is comprehensible to the majority of affected players so that (within reason) everyone playing can be meaningfully involved. Clearly a long standing personal grudge that literally has nothing to do with >90% of Orbis as the primary reason for a global war is a big bag of turds for the majority of us, and is bound to precipitate some brisk feedback. Also there’s a philosophical line with the arguments regarding CB’s, the old…if there’s no right or wrong, then it matters little what you do. Perhaps also a trend towards vacuous or absent CB’s reflects a decline in depth of character and themes? Sure there is great art, funny and cleverly themed posts here and there, but is there enough genuine rp from enough members to create the conditions for real political manoeuvring and conflict? How many socialist themed aa’s truly rp socialism? Arrgh is probably one of the truest to theme alliances. Really I’m not sure about the validity of this idea, but maybe worth considering imo.

I guess your effort at a sale's pitch is appreciated, and maybe even accurate if looked at squinty-eyed, through a narrow gap and reflected off a convex mirror. It is not my place to distinguish your truth from fantasy, only to respond that as a non-gov member in opposition, not involved in the self-harm of FA, I think your argument is weak. Oh I know what you're thinking '...who are you newbie...TKR whining about being dogpiled...get some stats up first...where's Cooper/BigMorf...Godwin's law...' etc etc. Well my friends, your buddies attempts to ridicule our line members out of this conversation does not put you in a good light. Yelling for our FA gov in response to those not of your 'superior' class, or implying that an opposing non-gov member's forum contribution is feeding your meagre store of FA capital are NPO moves through and through. So you've got a long-term beef with GG and have basically failed to nail them time and again. Brought in Rose to deal with TKR so you could give it another shot and concocted a pissweak story about whale/upper tier consolidation, something flippant that SRD said, and a preemptive strike due to HW militarization. GW19 clearly seems a product of t$ vanity and an unresolved jock-itch.

FYI Roses are red Bollocks by name, bollocks by content I guess...

It truly is the atrophied imagination that conceives the path to greatness lies upon the backs of others hahaha BTW I'm sorry to say there is no cure for small mindedness, T$ having left our slip-stream is testament to this.

Not one that holds water hahaha Just the usual contrived, half-baked, opaque nonsense one expects from these muppets. The DoW's are always good for a laugh though 😂