You should be very, very scared

[Demon]

The real thing is Russians realised they are becoming more and more isolated by the day.

 

 

[Demon]

is a disaster to mankind and democracy if it does.

 

no it is not. Ukraine doesnot have democracy since year 2000, the time when government fails to implement nation-wide referendum.

[Vincent]

Nice map, you should replace the black colour with Blue as well.

what government? It collapse the day their pro Russian president was impeached and forced to flee to Moscow.

[Demon]

what government? It collapse the day their pro Russian president was impeached and forced to flee to Moscow.

 

 

in the year 2000? you really read what i'm posting, or just trolling?

[Vincent]

The referendum in 2000 is flawed. the real will of Ukrainians was when then parliament impeached the president. in a democracy, minorities listen and go along with the decision of the majority.

[Demon]

Why it flawed? it isn't. Majority voted for 2chamber parliament and goverment just went to despotism, so there is no democracy in Ukraine since year 2000, and Ukraine will collapse.

[Vincent]

government went despotism ? why ? just because it impeached the pro Russian president?

 

lets see who collapse first? Russia or Ukraine.

Edited September 4, 2014 by vincentsum8

[Demon]

Because they fail to implement nation-wide referendum. it is not democracy then, rather despotism.

[Jerry LeRow]

CEE states like ukraine, but also hungary, slovakia,..., will never have democracy that's comparable to germany, uk or america. But at least more than in the ussr... or? soviet (if i read that right, DEMON )

[Ayayay]

Opens topic

 

Edited September 5, 2014 by underlordgc

[Fox Fire]

We also have a treaty with Ukraine that we are ignoring because we will not go to war with Russia.

Let's face it, not gonna happen. Especially under Obama. Maybe if it were famous warlord, Bush, but I simply see this as what it's been the whole time.

Talk, talk and a lot more talk.

 

A historic speech, no doubt.

 

I'm glad to see that we are not attempting any sort of "appeasement" policy towards Putin and what appears to be his thirst to recreate an empire.

 

EDIT: Not related to Estonia/Latvia/Lithuania but about Ukraine:

 

Ukraine needs to stop being influenced by Ukraine. I think it's more than clear the people there wish to be members of the EU and NATO, and they should be allowed that sovereignty.

Except for the millions of people who actually don't.

[Fox Fire]

http://rt.com/op-edge/184830-ukraine-russia-conflict-war-ceasefire/Even the state newspaper of Russia admits that Ukraine is trying to play this as a war. Given that in the context of the Obama speech, what do you think it is that they're trying to say there? They're essentially threatening Russia with war, and are going to be talking about joining NATO shortly. This is the closest the US has come to a war with Russia since before the end of the Cold War. It is serious business.

We are already legally obligated to defend them (oddly enough, so is Russia) and that's not happening is it?

Just like the cold war, it will be a war of words. If anyone was going to defend Ukraine, they would be.

[Jerry LeRow]

An interesting article I found: http://www.sptimes.ru/story/40683?page=1#top

[elsuper]

I'm aware, that's why I said that Ukraine needs to join EU/NATO. The latter part of my post about Ukraine was more in response to vincentsum8's post.

 

But does NATO want Ukraine?

[Odin]

USA shall just keeps us Germans out of their powerplays, who gives a !@#$ bout Ukrain?

 

That land itself was created by Russians in these borders, its faaar too big. In the east there are lots of lands that belong to Russia.

And in the west there are lands that historically belong to Slovenia/Hungary , Romania and Poland.

 

If its about the Baltic states, thats another story, but for real, dont cry for worldwar if its just ukrain, hell i mean they even speak russian -.-

I wouldnt mind if Austria annexed Germany, no difference after that, lol.

 

 

In the End its all about that America is the only one allowed to attack other nations.

If any other country in this world declares war, they are evil to inhumanity.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Wilhelm II

[Jerry LeRow]

USA shall just keeps us Germans out of their powerplays, who gives a !@#$ bout Ukrain?

 

That land itself was created by Russians in these borders, its faaar too big. In the east there are lots of lands that belong to Russia.

And in the west there are lands that historically belong to Slovenia/Hungary , Romania and Poland.

 

If its about the Baltic states, thats another story, but for real, dont cry for worldwar if its just ukrain, hell i mean they even speak russian -.-

I wouldnt mind if Austria annexed Germany, no difference after that, lol.

 

 

In the End its all about that America is the only one allowed to attack other nations.

If any other country in this world declares war, they are evil to inhumanity.

Attacks in terms of self defense are OK. Problem is almost no other country was in the position of america, and most other countries are just too weakor too lazy to counter IS, al-quaeda, iraq etc. alone.... where do you think europe would be without american protection? even the saudi king said IS could reach europe within 1 month (and he might know about them far better than we). 

 

but yes, ukraine is more a tool, i mean no one gives a shit about belarus, the last brutal dictatorship in europe...

[Christian Iles]

Ukraine is a very special case, to say the least.

 

But the demonization of Russia is really unecessary. The Russian Federation acts out of self-interest to reclaim the formerly Russian Crimea and avoid NATO bases at their borders at all costs, while the US is pulling their strings to put those bases there. Neither East or West is the angel here, but atleast Putin is taking initiative to solve it without sanctioning. Why is it that the people of the Russian federation must suffer for geopolitics? I find it absolutely ridicule that we crash our economies to crash theirs. Russia shouldn't have pulled their strings in Ukraine, but neither should the US.

 

The world is at cross-roads, but if the Western media can scream at Russia for days straight, they should point the finger at the mirror at times. Because, we are giving a reason for Russia to be defensive.. If there was no Spearhead NATO expansionism in the east, the Kremlin would have no reason to secure their borders through dirty politics. To be frank, no Nato brings more security to Europe than NATO, and not only for the Europeans...

[Jerry LeRow]

Ukraine is a very special case, to say the least.

 

But the demonization of Russia is really unecessary. The Russian Federation acts out of self-interest to reclaim the formerly Russian Crimea and avoid NATO bases at their borders at all costs, while the US is pulling their strings to put those bases there. Neither East or West is the angel here, but atleast Putin is taking initiative to solve it without sanctioning. Why is it that the people of the Russian federation must suffer for geopolitics? I find it absolutely ridicule that we crash our economies to crash theirs. Russia shouldn't have pulled their strings in Ukraine, but neither should the US.

 

The world is at cross-roads, but if the Western media can scream at Russia for days straight, they should point the finger at the mirror at times. Because, we are giving a reason for Russia to be defensive.. If there was no Spearhead NATO expansionism in the east, the Kremlin would have no reason to secure their borders through dirty politics. To be frank, no Nato brings more security to Europe than NATO, and not only for the Europeans...

Realism at its best. Welcome to politics.