Bambino

Noice.

Something a snek would say.

Epic.

Citation....er, oh, wait, nevermind. Let's keep it at least somewhat civil on our side here peeps.

Sure. You're right, actions against DEIC are not actions against UPN. There was no actual approval. Low level awareness, maybe, but no approval for spy ops pre war. Besides, as you stated, they were actions by rogue nations. Lets flip this on its head then as well. By your logic, Arrrgh's government then gave tacit approval to aggressively attack UPN for months now. So any response by UPN is simply a recognition of hostilities, be it actual war to sanctions. You guys simply decided that you thought you could mass raid us like you had done to multiple other large alliances and that the same result would happen. It didn't, so here we are. Let's stay focused here Ogaden and not try to spin this. All you're doing is showing how weak your argument is.

I have done no such thing. I simply requested you to provide evidence for your statements. If you are unable to do that, well, I guess that would speak for itself.

Well, we could re-read it and still find it only full of accusations and conspiracy theories without any actual evidence, hence the "citations needed."

Sure. But in order to discuss something, we all have to be on the same page with the facts. So far you seem to holding out on the rest of the community. I just want citations!

Citation needed Citation needed

Citation needed. Jacob definitely deserves props. When I had to talk to him about getting an arrrgh raid to stop and to end the counters to our counters, he was gracious and reasonable.....not like what I'm seeing here.

Interesting how you seem to complain that the bulk of your fighting force quit and yet you pressed forward. Sounds like poor leadership to me. Any spy attacks that had occurred, to the best of my knowledge, came from very few people and from people who are in our lower tiers. Did you come to UPN government, present proof that there were spy attacks ongoing by UPN members, and then request that it cease? If your answer was to essentially say "we're going to mass raid them instead even though our overall military capacity had been greatly weakened!", well, then you're a fool. My guess is that we would have told you we would look into it and attempt to stop it and it would have probably ended (much to the chagrin of our member nations). Blah blah blah, weight in numbers blah blah blah. By the time I declared (less than 12 hrs after the initial wave of assaults by Arrrgh), there were only 2 people in range for me to hit and one of those fell out of range in less than 12 hrs from my first declaration. All due to massive coordination by several members of UPN's council and junior council. There are still a few stragglers here and there, mostly because people foolishly beiged, but that's another problem entirely. I find it unlikely that you'd have escaped for long from the three people that declared on you last night, but hey, I'll grant it to you since you seem to need some sort of ice for all the burning going on over there. Citation needed.

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH. I get it, that's why UPN got attacked! Thanks Kurd! We are Sheepy's henchmen after all.

Confirmed, Bambino is Emmad. In all seriousness, I don't know exactly what Emmad did or did not know. He's had some real life stuff recently and hasn't always been on, so he may not have been around for those discussions. I don't remember nor do I care to go back through 10,000+ lines of chat. They weren't exactly long or numerous. If Emmad said he didn't know, he didn't know. I've not known him to lie. Though I'm sure you'll find a way to spin that too.

Ooof, wow, reading this makes my brain hurt. The amount of conspiracy bullcrap flying around here is insane. While I understand it won't make a lick of difference, as someone who is on the members only, government only, and allied private channels, I can assure you that UPN never ordered any mass spying. In fact, at some point we discussed requesting people to stop so that we can de-escalate the situation. And keep in mind this is after multiple repeated micro raids by Arrrgh in an attempt to lure us into an aggressive attack (as stated specifically by Arrrgh government - Not ordered by Arrrgh gov, but not stopped either). If your complaint is that we waited for something we figured would be to our advantage, well, go cry me a river. Only a fool takes more hits than they need to and we had already begun the process of making military standards so we could more actively counter raids on UPN and our protectorates. I mean, seriously, UPN wasn't even 50% powered up for war when you guys started with the mass raid that led to this conflict. I didn't even have 50% of my tanks in place yet and the only reason I had as many planes on me was because I normally keep 60% plane load (precisely because of the Arrrgh threat that was looming over us). While I know Ogaden and Roz's attempts are paper thin and merely an attempt to spin what has become a complete and utter disaster for Arrrgh, it'd be nice if they'd provide at least some sort of evidence to show that UPN gov lied rather than just throw randomness against the wall. If they can't do that then maybe they should stop with the bald faced attempts to paint UPN as the bad guy when we have repeatedly negotiated in good faith to stop conflict after conflict and were met only with a knife to the back. And Hans and Saru are right, it should have been done earlier, but what's done is done at this point. All I can say is that the sole person I've been able to fight in Arrrgh has been gracious and pleasant in our messages. I can only hope that is the way the majority of Arrrgh is rather than the vileness that's being shown here.

Woooo conspiracy theorist with no backup!

I'm still curious on who has attacked Arrrgh aggressively.

There were plenty of options available to Arrrgh following the game mechanics changes (including, but not limited to stopping raiding against people who were already implementing military standards to better protect membership) and had grown tired of dealing with their raids. It's also my belief (not acting as a UPN gov. official) that this would have eventually happened anyway but to much greater loss to UPN and her allies. Arrrgh didn't exactly make itself any friends recently. To specifically answer your question, if that was the only mechanic that was changed, then no, rose wouldn't be at fault. However, the two cases aren't the same given the plethora of options afforded everyone with this rules change. We're not quite through Round 1. The real answer will be to see what happens during round 2 and maybe round 3 if some sort of agreement can't be reached. Lets see how it goes before everyone starts losing their heads.

Darn it guys! We weren't fast enough. I love how UPN DoW threads inevitably just turn into non sequitur yelling fests.

Guys, we're only half way to 20 and I'm sure LordStrum is going to be coming back soon. Let's hurry this thing along!

*yawns*

Yes please, for clarity

I honestly couldn't tell you. I wasn't watching my pre-cash amount and my post cash amount so I can't say one way or the other. It's not a huge issue other than it seems to have gone into the ether.

No. I use 90 tons a day and it would still show up as a trade activity. It didn't show up as a trade activity.

Howdy, I bought iron from Malichy (https://politicsandwar.com/nation/id=9399) this morning but it didn't show up in my account. he says (and showed me a photo) saying it was a successful trade and that he got the money and iron was removed from his inventory. I didn't get it and it didn't show up in my inventory (here's my trades for the last day or so: ). Thoughts on what's going on? Bambino

Soylent Green! It's people!!!!